Mac OS users, I want to ask: I enginstall muse score on my mac. whether muse score can make the scores? and whether it can be used by the visually impaired?
I don't know of any really accessible ones aside from lillypond. And that, unfortunately, doesn't allow you to hook up a midi controller and put notes in like that. Wish it did.
I have heard feedback that it also works for VoiceOver, but I can't confirm. It would be great to find out more from you. So let me know if it works or doesn't work for you.
I have tried Sibelius with nvda. but I can not use the mouse trackpad. nvda can read with good enough. you say Muse score can be used by the user blind, what are you sure you?
This NVDA tutorial looks amazing. Even if it doesn't work with VO (which would be awesome) it's still great news for those of us who have access to Windows as well.
Question: How well does MuseScore handle auto-formatting of scores? Particular concerns would be ensuring that notes above or below the staff don't overlap with lyrics, dynamics/articulations, and other ledger notes from different staves. A long time ago, before I discovered Lilypond, I was using an older score editor called Lime, but I had to have a sighted person go through every score with a fine-toothed comb because it didn't have very good automation for score formatting. Lilypond seems to handle this beautifully, though, and it's very important for a blind user to have confidence that their score will come out looking legible and professional, without a lot of sighted proofreading. Does anyone have experience with this?
Also, the tutorial doesn't make any specific mention of adding articulations, dynamics, and so on. Is this also accessible via the keyboard? If I want to make a note staccato, or stick a fermata on it, or decide where dynamic marks or hairpins begin and end, can I do that as well?
Needless to say, the has me very excited, because as much as I love people's responses to the scores Lilypond produces, I've been dying for a better input method.
Hi Joseph, the next major MuseScore release will come with Smart Layout making beautiful scores much faster. Read all about it at https://musescore.org/en/node/109381
Finally, we strive to make it possible to able to export and share shortcut layouts, as well as other workspace settings and styles. This way one only needs to do the setup once and share the result with others.
I can't wait to test this with VO. I love lilypond but I don't have time to always sing the note I want and make sure it matches with what is in my head. I can't go that high. Lol! I don't have much time to test with voiceover right now, but being that I do arrange a lot of choral music, I want to get that published one day, I would love an easier solution that won't cause me to pull my hair out, or what little I have left.
I can say this much.. Muse score is coded using QT which is not known for accessibility, In fact it's a bare to use programs coded with QT. And no I'm not talking about quick time. Why can't developers use swift or coco as those have accessibility hooks. You cannot enter the number of measures and the time signature thing is very hard to use. After score creation I cant' see the score, that is, voiceover does not tell me the staves I'm on. In this case I'm working with SATB and piano. I normally write the piano line first then work on the choral parts later. I hope this gets better as this does show some promise.
Hi KE7ZUM, MuseScore is indeed build on Qt. So we stand on their shoulders for accessibility.
As for the NVDA tutorials, how much of those tutorials work for VO as well? Would you have some general advice on things we can improve, or fix low hanging fruit?
The time signature stepper doesn't read at all, I hard incrementing and decrementing, but I can't see any of the stuff I'm increasing and decreasing. Also the same goes with the number of measures in a piece. I can't see how many I put in when moving the slider. I'll take a look at the nvda stuff and see what I can m come up with later on.
The time signature stepper is totally broken. I can't read a thing to know what my top number will be.. The same applies to the measure section. I would go over the NVDA tutorials but The same is with the other NVDA tutorial link. Maybe I broke something, I'll try again later.
remember that I'm no way a moderator or anything like that, but I must say NVDA and Windows in general is quite out of the scope of this Forum's intent. While Bootcamp can be used to get NVDA going to use this software, it's more hoops than many may be able to jump through.
Back on topic, I'd be most interested in having Voiceover support on this, as I'd fancy a return to music composition.
apologize in advance, I can not speak English. I use google translate. the muse score it, how to make 8note, wolf note, and the aQuater note with kyi board shortCut?
I personally cannot get note entry to work with voiceover. I've switched to symphony for iOs for now, if I can figure out how to do 5 notes to the quarter that would be nice, but I'll post that question in the symphony topic.
@KE7ZUM @dharmaputra Thank you both for testing and for your feedback. We'll take that with us when implementing VoiceOver support in MuseScore 3. Once we have a test version ready, we'll come back to this thread. It will take some months though so we are asking some patience as MuseScore 3 is currently under heavy development.
Hello Thomas,
can you say something about new version musescore with support VoiceOver In Mac OS?
V3.0 is testing already?
You have anything new information?
I know that they did a lot of work wiht nvda and 3.0 ini fact the article is out of date. I'm hoping that they also made the key dialogue accessible and the mote editor as well. I really want to get this piece written and sung, not by me though. But at leas twritten and published.
Amusing sibelius to create all my scores, however i'll be happy if Musescore will work to save more money, for sure sibelius is the most advanced app, but if musescore will work, so, why not?
I have just tried the MuseScore 4 which released about a week. It is partially accessible with Voiceover. There are something confusing. You might take some time to get familiar with it, but it is a good start. I believe they will do better in the future.
In addition, I think the new sound library "Muse Sounds" is very good.
Here's a bit from the transcript: "9 minutes, 16 seconds As well as all the accessibility features ...like focus states ...and screen reader support ...
I had no idea that music scoring was so incredibly challenging. It really looks like the design team is concerned about Accessibility. There must be a number of screen Reader users that they know about. https://youtube.com/watch?v=Qct6LKbneKQ&feature=shares
I am not a composer but the subject interested me enough to watch it. I now have a better appreciation.
Could someone make a podcast or tutorial as to how to use muse score4 on mac with voiceover? I'm currently switching from Sibelius to muse score, but is there any way for someone who's more familiar with muse score to make a tutorial of at least the basics of using this on mac with voiceover, if possible?
Comments
I didn't think it could. I've
I didn't think it could. I've tried to submit feedback regarding this, hoever that has gone noware and fast.
Muse Score for mac
if the muse score can not be used to make music notation, what no other applications?
What i think sarah...
I think sarah meant that this application cannot be used by blind/visually-impaired people.
what no other applications?
what no other applications?
I don't know...
I don't know of any really accessible ones aside from lillypond. And that, unfortunately, doesn't allow you to hook up a midi controller and put notes in like that. Wish it did.
MuseScore with NVDA support
MuseScore 2.0.3 comes with NVDA support on Windows for both playing and creating scores. We have two tutorials on the topic: https://musescore.org/en/node/120426 and https://musescore.org/en/node/113581
I have heard feedback that it also works for VoiceOver, but I can't confirm. It would be great to find out more from you. So let me know if it works or doesn't work for you.
Wat? NVDA?
I have tried Sibelius with nvda. but I can not use the mouse trackpad. nvda can read with good enough. you say Muse score can be used by the user blind, what are you sure you?
Wow
This NVDA tutorial looks amazing. Even if it doesn't work with VO (which would be awesome) it's still great news for those of us who have access to Windows as well.
Question: How well does MuseScore handle auto-formatting of scores? Particular concerns would be ensuring that notes above or below the staff don't overlap with lyrics, dynamics/articulations, and other ledger notes from different staves. A long time ago, before I discovered Lilypond, I was using an older score editor called Lime, but I had to have a sighted person go through every score with a fine-toothed comb because it didn't have very good automation for score formatting. Lilypond seems to handle this beautifully, though, and it's very important for a blind user to have confidence that their score will come out looking legible and professional, without a lot of sighted proofreading. Does anyone have experience with this?
Also, the tutorial doesn't make any specific mention of adding articulations, dynamics, and so on. Is this also accessible via the keyboard? If I want to make a note staccato, or stick a fermata on it, or decide where dynamic marks or hairpins begin and end, can I do that as well?
Needless to say, the has me very excited, because as much as I love people's responses to the scores Lilypond produces, I've been dying for a better input method.
MuseScore smart layout
Hi Joseph, the next major MuseScore release will come with Smart Layout making beautiful scores much faster. Read all about it at https://musescore.org/en/node/109381
As for the shortcuts, a lot can be done already through the default shortcuts: https://musescore.org/en/handbook/keyboard-shortcuts
But you can also customise them via the preferences: https://musescore.org/en/handbook/preferences#shortcuts
That said, not all elements from the palette are exposed to the shortcut preferences, so that's another focus point for MuseScore 3.
Finally, we strive to make it possible to able to export and share shortcut layouts, as well as other workspace settings and styles. This way one only needs to do the setup once and share the result with others.
What is also interesting to read is https://musescore.org/en/tutorials/modified-stave-notation
I can't wait to test this
I can't wait to test this with VO. I love lilypond but I don't have time to always sing the note I want and make sure it matches with what is in my head. I can't go that high. Lol! I don't have much time to test with voiceover right now, but being that I do arrange a lot of choral music, I want to get that published one day, I would love an easier solution that won't cause me to pull my hair out, or what little I have left.
feedback on muse score for mac thus far
I can say this much.. Muse score is coded using QT which is not known for accessibility, In fact it's a bare to use programs coded with QT. And no I'm not talking about quick time. Why can't developers use swift or coco as those have accessibility hooks. You cannot enter the number of measures and the time signature thing is very hard to use. After score creation I cant' see the score, that is, voiceover does not tell me the staves I'm on. In this case I'm working with SATB and piano. I normally write the piano line first then work on the choral parts later. I hope this gets better as this does show some promise.
Qt
Hi KE7ZUM, MuseScore is indeed build on Qt. So we stand on their shoulders for accessibility.
As for the NVDA tutorials, how much of those tutorials work for VO as well? Would you have some general advice on things we can improve, or fix low hanging fruit?
The time signature stepper
The time signature stepper doesn't read at all, I hard incrementing and decrementing, but I can't see any of the stuff I'm increasing and decreasing. Also the same goes with the number of measures in a piece. I can't see how many I put in when moving the slider. I'll take a look at the nvda stuff and see what I can m come up with later on.
The time signature stepper is
The time signature stepper is totally broken. I can't read a thing to know what my top number will be.. The same applies to the measure section. I would go over the NVDA tutorials but
The same is with the other NVDA tutorial link. Maybe I broke something, I'll try again later.
Gentle reminder: Mac OS forum
remember that I'm no way a moderator or anything like that, but I must say NVDA and Windows in general is quite out of the scope of this Forum's intent. While Bootcamp can be used to get NVDA going to use this software, it's more hoops than many may be able to jump through.
Back on topic, I'd be most interested in having Voiceover support on this, as I'd fancy a return to music composition.
apologize in advance, I can
apologize in advance, I can not speak English. I use google translate. the muse score it, how to make 8note, wolf note, and the aQuater note with kyi board shortCut?
Shortcuts
HI dharmaputra, You may find all shortcuts at https://musescore.org/en/handbook/keyboard-shortcuts In particular the note input shortcuts such as note duration can be found at https://musescore.org/en/handbook/keyboard-shortcuts#duration
Thank you
@mister thomas, I have opened the URL you provide. and I found a short cut for Mac OS users. whether it can support the Voice Over?
Is it working with voice over or not?
Hello all:
THe only thing that makes me use the VMware on my mac is the Sibelius software, as there is no other choice on mac for us.
Thanks
I personally cannot get note
I personally cannot get note entry to work with voiceover. I've switched to symphony for iOs for now, if I can figure out how to do 5 notes to the quarter that would be nice, but I'll post that question in the symphony topic.
Thanks for the feedback
@KE7ZUM @dharmaputra Thank you both for testing and for your feedback. We'll take that with us when implementing VoiceOver support in MuseScore 3. Once we have a test version ready, we'll come back to this thread. It will take some months though so we are asking some patience as MuseScore 3 is currently under heavy development.
Thank you
I will wait for further development. I would like to express my gratitude.
Am waiting
I hope it will be ready soon.
sibelius? are you serius?
hello goldenear on
Does the sibelius you say really can run on voice over?
Hello Thomas,
Hello Thomas,
can you say something about new version musescore with support VoiceOver In Mac OS?
V3.0 is testing already?
You have anything new information?
I know that they did a lot of
I know that they did a lot of work wiht nvda and 3.0 ini fact the article is out of date. I'm hoping that they also made the key dialogue accessible and the mote editor as well. I really want to get this piece written and sung, not by me though. But at leas twritten and published.
Musescore 3.x - some changes?
Hello!
Mey be some of you have any impressions about accessibility latest versions with Voiceover? Something was change for us?
Last time I tried that
Last time I tried that software, I didn't really like it that much... that was about two years ago... I wonder how improved the software is.
sibelius here
Amusing sibelius to create all my scores, however i'll be happy if Musescore will work to save more money, for sure sibelius is the most advanced app, but if musescore will work, so, why not?
I use it on windows. Iā¦
I use it on windows. I forgot ot save myh last projectg so looks like I need to start over, again. Bleh.
can we try Version 4 on mac?
Is it still in beta or we can try it ?
Still in beta to my knowledge
To my knowledge, muse score 4 is still in beta, but you can beta test I believe.
MuseScore 4 is Out Now
Hello Everyone,
I have just tried the MuseScore 4 which released about a week. It is partially accessible with Voiceover. There are something confusing. You might take some time to get familiar with it, but it is a good start. I believe they will do better in the future.
In addition, I think the new sound library "Muse Sounds" is very good.
Here is the link from the MuseScore website.
https://musescore.org/en/4.0
Thanks for reading.
They have a great video about version four on YouTube
Here's a bit from the transcript: "9 minutes, 16 seconds As well as all the accessibility features ...like focus states ...and screen reader support ...
I had no idea that music scoring was so incredibly challenging. It really looks like the design team is concerned about Accessibility. There must be a number of screen Reader users that they know about.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Qct6LKbneKQ&feature=shares
I am not a composer but the subject interested me enough to watch it. I now have a better appreciation.
Could someone make a podcast or tutorial?
Could someone make a podcast or tutorial as to how to use muse score4 on mac with voiceover? I'm currently switching from Sibelius to muse score, but is there any way for someone who's more familiar with muse score to make a tutorial of at least the basics of using this on mac with voiceover, if possible?
here is their YouTube link
https://youtube.com/@musescore
Yeah it sure is a struggle,ā¦
Yeah it sure is a struggle, getting QT to play nice with all of the screen readers.