Has anybody in the UK tried the new Sky Q app?

As already mentioned, Sky Talker literally did only give you the names of programmes on now and and the next hour and the synopsis of what you were watching. You could not navigate your list of recordings so you'd still have to play each of your recordings until you played the one you wanted. I recall when the HD boxes rolled out Sky Talker would not work with them and I don't believe it was ever updated to work with them so I'm pretty confident it won't work with Sky Q.don't think it ever worked on the HD boxes

I've been monitoring the forum over the past few days but not had chance to answer some of the points made regarding whether taking action against Sky is the right thing to do or not so I thought over the next few posts I would give my reasons for why I feel it's necessary. For a number of reasons but not least due to the amount of detail I'm attempting to go in when contacting Sky, it's taken me quite a while to get my final formal complaint letter put together. This letter details to Sky why what they are doing is unlawful, what input I have attempted to give Sky to help them meet their responsibilities under the Equality Act and OFCOMs recent consultation re amending their code of practice for electronic program guides. The consultation is quite interesting and to a large extent it seems OFCOM agrees with many of us but there are areas that need improving to make it less likely for providers to avoid making the adjustments. I'm including a link to the consultation below. I'd point out that in the Responses section I could not see a response from Sky even though all of main providers have responded. I've not had an opportunity to look at the responses yet other than RNIBs which is excellent and I intend to make contact with RNIB next week to see if they will support my action. I have also been contacted by a barrister and law lecturer who has kindly offered his support. Next I will give brief details of m arguments for the action. The consultation can be found at https://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultations-and-statements/category-2/epg-accessibility.

Can I point out that while communicating with Sky regarding this, I have always remained polite, willing to be informed of Sky's efforts to make the necessary changes and I've done my best to give constructive support in helping them make the necessary changes by giving my opinion of how the platform could be made more accessible, giving brief details of case studies where talking EPGs etc have been implemented and I've offered to be involved in beta testin future changes to the platform with an understanding of requirements for non-disclosure.In a hope that appropriate changes may be in the pipeline I asked them for a outline of their roadmap to implement appropriate changes and it was made clear to me by both the accessibility team and their New Media team that they are currently unaware of any implementation of such changes and if there were any plans they felt they would be aware of them.
I need to clarify whether OFCOMs code of practice would superceed the requirements stated in the Equality Act but I think that would be unlikely. The two main areas of the law I believe Sky have been unlawful under the Equality Act 2010 are as follows (I've included a link for each which explains each):
1. Indirect discrimination
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/discrimination/what-are-the-different-types-of-discrimination/indirect-discrimination/.
2. Failure to make a reasonable adjustment
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/discrimination/what-are-the-different-types-of-discrimination/duty-to-make-reasonable-adjustments-for-disabled-people/.
I do want to outline my reasons for why both of these parts of the act have been breached by Sky but I will do this when I get some more time but hopefully I think it will be obvious to many of you. Regarding the Failure to make a reasonable adjust though, it is not possible to use the Sky Q app to see what is recorded on your box without a Sky multiroom subscription. This subscription costs an additional £12 a month. I do not want multiroom functionality and only want to use the app to have some level of access to the recording on the box and only to facilitate me being able to play the recordings on the same box. I asked Sky if they would credit my account each month for the £12 as a reasonable adjustment and even though I stated it would be as a reasonable adjustment, they have refused and confirmed this in writing. Sky have argued that smart phone apps are an reasonable adjustment and therefore should not need to make the EPG talk. However the Sky Q app is useless without the additional subscription and even with the subscription it's use is extremely limited and any work around to manage the programs on the box are very complicated relative to simply using the box for a sighted person. Happy to hear everyones thoughts but please keep it friendly. Everyones views are equaly important as we all have different skills, abilities and experiences so no solution is one size fits all.

Would anyone else interpret Virgins response below to suggest that they aren't even in the early stages of implementing a talking EPG?
Question 2 (Rolling out to all TV receivers) - Do you agree that the proposed features should be rolled out on all new models of TV receivers commencing
development from when the changes to the EPG Code that we are proposing enter into force, and any subsequent models (using reasonable endeavours, so far
as practicable)? If not, please explain why you do not agree giving reasons.
We note that the proposed changes to the EPG Code will apply to ‘all TV receivers commencing development from when the proposed changes to the EPG Code
are implemented, and any subsequent models4’. If Ofcom decides to proceed with its plans, we consider it important that Ofcom defines clearly what it means
for a TV receiver to be ‘commencing development’, as this will potentially impact receivers being developed in the next few months (assuming Ofcom issues
a final statement in Spring 2018).
Development of a device or new product can take years from initial discussions to product launch and therefore it is difficult to pinpoint when product
development commences. In keeping with the spirit of the EPG Code, Ofcom should be looking over a number of years if there has been progress on accessibility
in the round rather than looking at a particular point in time and overly focussing on the start date of a product’s development.
We consider that to make this requirement practicable for industry, the definition of a TV receiver ‘commencing development’ should only encompass the
launch of new products into the market and specifically exclude incremental software upgrades to existing products already in the market.
Question 3 (Reporting requirement) - Do you agree with our revised proposal to retain and amend paragraph 10 of the current EPG Code, which requires EPG
licensees to produce an annual statement regarding accessibility? If not, please explain why you do not agree giving reasons.
Whilst Virgin Media supports the idea that EPG providers produce an annual EPG Report to explain compliance with the EPG Code, many of the details relating
to technical development and milestones to explain our approach will be confidential and not disclosable to consumers. This may therefore underestimate
the ongoing work we are investing into making our products and services accessible.

Could we politely ask that people remember the scope of AppleVis when posting to this thread, as discussion of set-top boxes and the software running on them falls outside of that scope; and this is where discussion now seems to be heading.

Thank you.

The AppleVis Editorial Team

Hi. Of course I'm happy to respect the view of the editorial team but I do feel the discussions we've had so far are relevant. The issue regarding set top box accessibility is directly impacted by the inaccessibility of the Sky Q app and visa versa. In order to progress the accessibility and functionality of the Sky Q app I feel the lack of accessibility of the box is a key argument as to the need for the app to be fully accessible and functional to enable control of the box. Sky have already confirmed there are no plans to intergrate any remote control functionality to control the box in to the app.

Peter,

You make a good point that makes some flexibility appropriate here. All we ask is that people don't stretch things too far away from the original topic of this post and the general scope of the website.

The AppleVis Editorial Team

Thanks for understanding and I'll be mindful of what you've said when posting. I'm also mindful of not posting too much.

So as to debunk mystery here, I am the barrister and law lecturer to whom Peter refers. My preliminary view is that there is a case to answer here, though the Chinese proverb that you should never go into litigation if you know you are right is worth remembering. To the Applevis editorial team, I think the issue here is that the apps and the set-top boxes march hand in hand. Sky accessibility can only be viewed from an holistic perspective, so it's not surprising that there is some comment on set-top boxes. At the end of the day, if Sky Q were to become accessible due to changes to the box, I don't think anyone would quarrel with that merely because the changes were not to the app. meanwhile I think it's very important we keep this topic current and active - Sky Access should have the opportunity to respond if they are able to.

Hi all. Just to update you re my on-going action re Sky accessibility. Having being advised to do so by the Equality Advisory and Support Service (part of the Equality and Human Rights Commission) and RNIB, I sent a letter of formal complaint of indirect discrimination and failure to make reasonable adjustments as set out in the Equality Act 2010, and provided detailed evidence of how their actions are unlawful. On Friday I received a call from Sky's Priority Customer team, based at Jeremy Darroch's (CEO of Sky) office. They are directly answeriable to the executive team. In addition to being assured they are thoroughly investigating all issues I've raised, They are liaising with their legal team who are considering Sky's position and not surprisingly they are a little reluctant to give me any more information at this time. They have issued me with a dead-lock letter which means I am able to also approach CISAS (dispute resolution) ) to consider all of the facts and CISAS are able to make legally binding decisions as to what Sky will have to do if anything such as paying compensation, making changes to services etc. I'm speaking with RNIB's legal team next week to update them as there a couple of things I'm unsure of such as whether it is beneficial to take action as a group or individually, at what stage it should go to court etc. Court would be the last option as this can take a long time and would create a whole load more issues for me to deal with. The positive thing is that all of the organisations and individuals I have approached for help and advice have agreed it is clear there is some case to answer. For those who still believe Sky do not have a case to answer I've put two links below. First giving an explanation of In-direct discrimination and the other on Failure to make a reasonable adjustment. In-direct discrimination; https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/discrimination/what-are-the-different-types-of-discrimination/indirect-discrimination/. Failure to make a reasonable adjustment; https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/discrimination/what-are-the-different-types-of-discrimination/duty-to-make-reasonable-adjustments-for-disabled-people/. I will update the forum as the case progresses but understandably there may be some information I cannot share or may need to wait to do so.

Hi. Just a quick update. I had a call from Sky's customer priority team last night. After a conference call purely to discuss my letter and involving Sky's Compliance Director, they are devising a plan to implement the reasonable adjustments I have requested or at least implement temporary work arounds. My most urgent request was to not charge blind customers who only pay for Sky Multiroom just to enable better use of the app to know what is recorded on the box. It's looking like this will be resolved over the next few weeks and no longer a question of if but when. This should happen in the next couple of weeks. My second was incorporating similar remote functionality to the app as was included in the Sky Plus app. I will be receiving a letter from Sky's legal team in the next fourteen days to provide interim resolutions for the other more complex issues such as making the box itself accessible. I was also advised Apple have contacted Sky in response to some feedback I provided them and Apple and Sky are working together to resolve these issues. It's nice to see apple being proactive in contacting developers directly to resolve issues. More updates to come soon but failure is not an option.

well this is positive, but are sky just dealing with your complaint specifically regarding sky q, or are they intending to make improvements for normal sky plus users? as we gave them loads of feedback on how normal sky plus could be improved, and although of course its great to see them making sky q accessible improvements to sky plus would be welcome, we shouldn't let them think that just improving one app is sufficient as they seem to clearly believe at the moment.

Hi all. Apologies for the slow updates but this is a lengthy process which is not yet over. I'm going to copy a letter I've received from Sky's legal team but needless to say, I have a lot of questions. Please do not all start calling Sky customer services to ask for a refund of sky multiroom charges as I'm trying to clarify if and how sky intend to make blind customers aware of this etc. Please be aware in my grievance I haven't just focused on Sky Q as I too have been there for all of the other issues relating to other Sky services including Sky+. See letter below and more to follow soon. This is now being escalated to CISAS who have 20 day to consider my grievance and their decision and any recommendations that come from it are legally binding and Sky have said they will abide by them. I do not have to accept the decision of CISAS and can progress this to court if I feel it's. Disappointingly only one person off here offered any kind of input or help but I'm guessing those affected will be wanting their refunds.
Dear Mr. Holdstock
Reply to formal complaint of alleged indirect discrimination and failure to make a reasonable adjustment
We refer to letter of 27th May 2018 and further to your recent discussions with our Customer Priority Department. While we have taken full note and careful consideration of your comments, we do not intend in this letter to reply directly to all of your allegations against Sky, and its alleged failure to comply with its legal obligations to you. We understand that your core concern is to be involved with Sky’s continued development of features and services (in particular relating to Sky Q) to improve the quality of service Sky offers to its blind and partially sighted customers.
While we deny any discrimination in the Sky Q services we make available to blind people or any breaches of relevant Ofcom requirements, we acknowledge that there are opportunities to make certain aspects of our services even better and we are committed to doing so. In particular, we are making certain functionality of the Sky Q Multiscreen subscription available without additional charge for our blind customers, so that they may properly navigate a list of their Sky+ recordings via the Sky Q app. In addition, we will be providing greater awareness to our customers of the Voice Search and Voice Control button on the Sky Q remote control. By pressing down this button (which is on the top right of the remote control) customers can ask to be taken to specific programmes and/or Sky+ recordings they have made. While this is not a complete solution to the text to speak issue you identify, it does provide a mechanism to play content on the main screen, while we develop a comprehensive and fully integrated approach to meeting this challenge.
In addition to the measures set out above, we would like to invite you (at our expense) to visit our offices to give you the opportunity to meet the product teams to discuss your experience with them and share your insight on high quality, customer-focused, high tech solutions for our visually impaired customers.
We would also like to offer you a full refund of amounts paid by you to date for your Sky Q Multiscreen subscription.
Yours sincerely,
Rafat Rasul
Paralegal, TMT & Litigation

Just my reply to Sky's last letter. Happy to hear your thoughts.
Dear Mr Rasul

Thank you for your letter dated 12 July which despite my prior request for it to be sent by email as I am blind and therefore unable to read a printed letter, I actually only received an email copy on 17 July and when speaking to your colleagues on the Priority Customer team only yesterday, a number of them confirmed that they had spoken to your team and as of yesterday the letter hadn’t been sent. I clarify this only for the purposes of keeping a full timeline of events).

I will do my best to cover points made in your letter in order;
• “we do not intend in this letter to reply directly to all of your allegations against Sky,” – will I receive a further reply re my other issues or is there good reason why you are not able to address these?
• “We understand that your core concern is to be involved with Sky’s continued development of features and services (in particular relating to Sky Q) to improve the quality of service Sky offers to its blind and partially sighted customers.“ – This was not my core concern at all and my enthusiasm to be able to assist with addressing accessibility issues on the Sky platform was purely to support Sky as a typical blind user of the system and for me not to seem like someone criticising without showing a willingness to aid the changes needed.
• “In particular, we are making certain functionality of the Sky Q Multiscreen subscription available without additional charge for our blind customers, so that they may properly navigate a list of their Sky+ recordings via the Sky Q app.” – Genius idea, who came up with that? That would be my idea and for six months I asked for this and despite asking for it as a reasonable adjustment staff on both the Accessibility team and the Priority Customer team insisted that it would not be possible. Even when I attempted to make a complaint, an Accessibility team manager (Careon) replied on 8 May by email making it quite clear “this is Sky’s position on the matter” and giving me the impression that this position would not change. – This is the failure to make a reasonable adjustment. I acknowledge that it may not have been obvious for Sky to anticipate that such an adjustment would help, but once I requested this as an adjustment Sky cannot claim that it wasn’t reasonable for them to know this.
• “In addition, we will be providing greater awareness to our customers of the Voice Search and Voice Control button on the Sky Q remote control.” – I mentioned the issue of Voice Recognition and the problem of silent messages appearing on the screen which then stop Voice Recognition and other remote functions from working. I suggested a simple bleep to let the user know some kind of interaction is needed would be helpful. No mention of this and this could make Voice Recognition an unsuitable option for those completely blind and less technically minded.
• In regard to your invitation to come to your offices, meet the product teams etc, I would very much like to accept that offer and I look forward to hearing from someone to arrange this.
• In regard to a refund of my Sky Q Multiroom subscription, while I am grateful for this, I am disappointed that no offer of reasonable compensation for the significant stress, use of my time (literally tens of hours), the impact of offensive statements made by Sky employees directly relating to my request for a reasonable adjustment due to my disability such as “well you chose to have Sky and other services are available” and “Why would we give you Sky Multiroom for free when we wouldn’t do it for anyone else”. The latter statement came from a manager on the Accessibility team which I feel makes it even worse. Indeed, to make matters worse there was no reference to these allegations in your reply. Did anyone actually listen to the phone calls as I suggested? Do they still exist or has the length of time passed meant that they have been deleted?

Also, how does Sky intend to make blind customers aware of this offer and will the offer be backdated as you have for me?

I appreciate there are several points you may want to come back to clarify and so I’m open to still communicating and attempting to resolve this matter. However, in the meantime I will be escalating my case to CISAS as I feel they will be better placed to get to the bottom of some of my concerns and make an appropriate and independent judgement.

Given the lengthy nature of this process so far, I would kindly request a reply by email within seven days from my sending this email.

Kind regards

Peter

Hi Peter, that is good news from sky at least they are starting to take you seriously.
as regards your point about silent messages on screen interrupting remote function I have found this to be the case as well when low battery warnings come up on screen for the sky remote with sky plus.

As to only one person offering you help with your fight with sky, I suspect the reason for this is probably the vast majority of people on applevis are American citizens so this is probably of no interest to them. I myself would be happy to help if I can but I have no legal expertise and I am not the main bill payer in my house, but I would certainly be very happy to read draft letters, contribute thoughts and ideas, and suggest points to be raised with sky when you eventually meet them. Or if you were up for it and sky was I would even be happy to join you on the visit to sky to contribute thoughts and ideas.

I two would be interested in an update, and if things have changed, as the original post in this topic was written about 3 years back. our house is again thinking about switching over to q, so thoughts on accessibility of q vs plus would be welcome. the original post states that you can't manage recordings from the planner, I am interested if this is still the case, and if there are other disadvantages I might suffer from moving to q, or conversely advantages. I know that I can't change channel within the app and so have to use the remote, but this isn't a big issue for me personally as I never watch anything live. I am not two keen on having all the house recordings managed centrally but that's one issue.

Hi. I'm pleased to say an update in December has made the app very accessible. There are aspects of the app which aren't very intuative and playback controls once video has started playing in the app aren't accessible. However, I and a few others have met with Sky and I'm pleased to say that this should be resolved very soon. For now, the app is very usable but remote control of the box is not available nor does it look like it will be in the future. I'm not able to go in to any details but after beginning the action I did against sky, I'm happy for now that the right steps are being taken to make the platform accessible and things are being put in place to enable them to take onboard and respond to disabled customers feedback much easier. I don't have time to explain the best way to use the app at the minute but if I get chance I'll post some helpful hints when I can. The main issue before was the menu which caused voice over a great dealof issues but now, once you get used to how it works it works well.

Hi Peter, when you say you can't go into details, did they get you to sign a non disclosure agreement or something?
is it going to be made possible to play programs back directly on the tv? as I understand it at the moment you can only watch programs back directly on an ios device, whereas sighted users can actually select to play programs directly through the tv if using the box.
As I understand it currently if I want to get audio through my tv of a program I will have to airplay it which sounds fiddly.
I would like your view though given that I am on plus currently is q over all a step forward or backward in terms of accessibility or is it simply going sideways?
I guess I am trying to work out if I should really try to persuade my dad to stick with plus given that we have no immediate need to upgrade, though he thinks he will save money if he does.
also, is managing recordings through the app now accessible, I mean can I delete things if I want to, as the original post on this topic says that this can't be done, bulk delete would certainly be nice but I doubt that will happen.

if you only want it on one screen why not just stick with sky plus? personally I think q seems to have disadvantages compared to plus, for example not being able to play back directly to my tv but having to airplay audio from my phone to the box which will then send it to the tv.
I think given the choice I would stick with the old plus system.
though of course sky don't really seem to be supporting the plus app at all these days in terms of updates, features etc.

your correct in that sky q and plus use separate apps, but it was said earlier in this thread that sky still offered plus boxes and recommended them for blind customers and that in fact they still manufactured plus boxes.
Of course I have no idea if this is still the case.

Hi Oliver and all. Just to clarify, while Sky Q is the default for new customers, you can still opt instead for Sky+ for accessibility reasons if you wish.
To do this however, you need to speak to our Accessibility team, as our general Sales teams do not have access to this option. If you have already placed an order with the Sales team for Sky Q, you can still call Accessibility and have it switched to Sky+.
It's a personal judgement call honestly. Both iOS apps are accessible, but the Sky+ app allows you to manage your Planner and play from the app to the TV. Sky Q though is the more modern platform, with more scope for future enhancements.

Hi @Michael. I will look into this.

nice to see sky is still keeping an eye on applevis, I get that q is more modern, but why doesn't the app support directly starting to play programs back directly from the box to the tv, to my mind only being able to play back on an ios device is a big step backward especially when sighted customers can play things directly back from the tv.
I also haven't been able to establish is managing recordings through the q app possible or not? I mean deleting things etc.
it also does seem unfair that owners of single q boxes are being forced to take out multi room just to use the app, this wouldn't apply to me, but it does seem a real shortcoming of the system.
I would still be in favor of legislation to force sky and other companies to actually take accessibility seriously and not just an optional extra that they will work on when they feel like it.

Hi @Alex. Indeed, the Sky Q app was designed with a different use case in mind. But we are very much aware of the impact this had on visually impaired customers, and exploring long term options.
No, if you have the MultiScreen subscription, you can view what's in the Planner, called Recordings in Sky Q, and download and watch them, but you cannot delete them from the box.

Hi @Oliver. Glad you're looking at joining us. My recommendation is to go straight to our Accessibility team to place your order if possible, so you can discuss your options.
If you would like to get an idea of how the Sky Q app works, you can download the Sky Go app, which is almost identical in design to the sky Q app. Of course you will not be able to watch anything, but you can explore the app.

Hi thanks for clarifying that, so how is someone who is blind supposed to manage there own recordings?
please don't tell me at the moment they will have to ask someone sighted to do it for them?
if so I am utterly amazed and will be doing my best to make sure we stay on the plus system. Managing recordings through the remote is all very well but if you have months to scroll back through this doesn't seem practical, and in my case because it would potentially be a two box household I would be at real risk of accidentally deleting recordings made by other members of the household because of course all recordings are stored centrally, and the point of q is correct me if I am wrong but I could decide to watch anybodies recordings in the house because of them all being stored in one place. this of course also has the consequence that I couldn't even memorize the order of recordings because knowing my luck other people would add extra things to the list.

Hi @Alex. The approach some users are taking is to use the app as a guide to tell them what is in the Recordings section, and the order they appear in, and then learn the button sequence on the remote.
If you do delete somebody's recording by mistake, they can recover them from the deleted items section.
For playback, you do also have the option of voice control, a feature which is being enhanced over time.
As stated earlier, we are aware that this is far from an optimal experience, but it is the partial workaround which some customers are employing. Others have opted to remain on Sky+ and the Sky+ app for the time being.

Michael did you see above? you can't delete recordings using the app, the second box only grants the privilege of you being able to look at your recordings so you will have to try to fight with the remote to delete anything. and of course if you accidentally delete a recording I don't think you have the option to recover it through the app, at least plus doesn't have this feature so I assume q doesn't as well.

Just wondering if people have considered now tv as an alternative to sky q? I have to say I really don't like the thought of switching to q, so have begun to investigate now tv, but it seems very hard to get up to date information as regards its accessibility or lack of. I am currently looking into boxes and other methods of receiving. any thoughts about now tv would certainly be welcome.

Hi oliver thanks for your thoughts, the button labeling is certainly one thing to put me off, are you sure though that now tv doesn't offer audio description as when I have googled trying to find up to date information which is very difficult I came across several posts on there forums from people complaining about audio description being activated and not sure how to turn it off.
If we were going to get it at all I think we would be receiving it through boxes, but obviously that doesn't matter if the apps accessibility is bad. grr looks like I am really stuck then as I really don't want to go to q but dad is thinking about it simply because he says he doesn't need a lot of what he pays for at the moment from sky and they are not very flexible in the packages they offer.
He is also considering virgin but I have heard bad things about there accessibility as well.

I'm really pleased that this discussion has been revitalised with a lot of comment in the last few days. it's very important and the best way to get some progress is to make sure Sky know that a significant number of us still feel strongly about this issue.

@SkyAccess I've always tried to be fair in my commentary on this issue, so thanks for Sky's engagement with the discussion and for what appear to be significant improvements with the app. i have to add my voice to those who are disappointed, however, that we have to resort to work-arounds such as guessing how many times to press a button on a remote so as to be able to delete recordings from the planner. I pay a lot of money to sky, and while i don't expect everything to be perfect, nor does it seem right that we should have to resort to work-arounds of this sort to perform a pretty basic function. I hope it is being treated as high priority to fix this because I also agree with those who are saying that having to settle for legacy equipment because the new kit isn't quite up to scratch yet is unsatisfactory.

Hi bingo, not only that but remember if your blind and using the app we can't play a program back directly to the tv, we have to watch on a device, then air play the audio to our tv, which is fine say if we are on our own, but what if we want to watch tv with someone sighted? frankly we shouldn't have to ask them to set a program playing directly on the tv, as obviously airplay can only send the audio to the tv, not to mention of course it will cause phones and other devices to run out of battery quicker.

Hi all, some further responses.
@Oliver - The Sky+ app does not have the ability to toggle audio description on and off, it needs to be done on the box, though is relatively easy, just a couple of button presses. This suggestion has been registered, though the app is currently being maintained rather than being actively developed.
On Sky+, a recorded programme will have AD if AD was switched on when the recording was made, and it cannot be toggled on or off in the recording. On Sky Q, it can be toggled in the recording.
There is currently no policy in place to provide discounts for Sky Q upgrades. If this changes I will let you know.
@Alex - Now TV on iOS is currently not very accessible with VoiceOver I'm afraid, though we have been engaging well with the product teams in recent months, so I am positive about it in the longer term.
On Apple TV however, it is accessible.
Audio description is currently not supported on Now TV, as is the case with On Demand content on Sky, and content on the Sky Go app. It is our ambition to develop this feature, and when it comes to Sky On Demand and Sky Go, it should also come to Now TV. I am not though in a position to guarantee if or when this will happen.
We have a huge range of AD on our broadcast Sky TV channels, and the Sky+ and Sky Q boxes also support AD when provided by other broadcasters.
@Bingo - Thanks for the comment. Yes, absolutely, the impact of this is not lost on us.
@Peter - Thanks for your earlier comment. I'm glad you found your visit useful, and I know we did too. Sorry I am based at a different site so wasn't able to meet you myself.

Hello all

Thanks for the informative posts on this thread so far. We have just ordered Sky Q. I am totally blind and use Voice-Over on the iPhone, but we have ordered Sky Q mainly for my wife, who is fully sighted, as she was impressed by it when she saw it at a relative’s house. I had hoped that the Sky Q app would have some of the same functionality as the Sky Plus app in terms of being able to browse recordings and play programmes on the TV from the app, but it is apparent from the comments here that this is not the case.

This situation is extremely disappointing, particularly given that Sky Q has now been in existence for a number of years and that other companies such as Samsung have been able to overcome the barriers to integrating speech into their products, at least as far as the core functionality such as accessing menus and the TV guide is concerned. In fact Sky have done this previously with the Sky Plus app. It is hard to avoid the conclusion that Sky q remains largely inaccessible to blind people due to a decision that the needs of blind customers are a low priority and the absence of any determination to change this situation, rather than technical considerations.

I agree with the sentiment that Sky is indirectly discriminating against its blind customers and that workarounds, while welcome, are not an acceptable solution. I don’t have the resources to take legal action on my own. However, I would be happy to support any action in any way I can. I also think that the fact that Sky are offering Sky Plus as an alternative may weaken any legal case (as the core service is available from Sky Plus and may be considered a reasonable adjustment) and that this is likely to have been a factor in Sky making this offer to blind customers. But at least it means that this option is still available for people who want it and I would be considering this if I lived on my own and wanted Sky channels. It will be interesting to see what Sky’s offer to blind customers will be when Sky Plus is no longer in operation.

We have no interest in reverting to Sky Plus because my wife would like to be able to use the new Sky Q system. We also have a Samsung TV with Voice Guide built-in, so I do have the option of recording programmes from the Freeview channels directly from the TV, rather than using the Sky box. However, I would be interested in getting a multi-screen subscription so that I could view the list of recordings in the Sky Q app if I could have the cost of this refunded; this would enable me to record and watch programmes from the Sky channels as well. We don’t need the multi-screen functionality for any other reason. Has anyone on here been successful in getting a refund for a multi-screen subscription, other than Peter who made the original complaint? Is this something that the Sky accessibility team would know about? Or will we all have to make complaints of discrimination in order to receive this? If the accessibility team are unaware of this policy, it would seem that the letter provided to Peter that such refunds were being made available to all blind customers is, at best, inaccurate.

I would also like to add my name to the list of people interested in beta-testing any alternative solutions which become available.

Thanks all for the messages and I will keep an eye on how this develops with great interest.

James

so just wondering has there been any progress on any accessibility of sky q?
my dad is now planning to go to sky to see if he can get a better deal out of them, I did email peter asking if any of the issues with q accessibility had been resolved or if he was still locked in conflict with them but got no response.
as I understand it issues for me will still be that I would be unable to play back programs directly from my tv if I use the phone to start and stop playback, streaming will only start on my phone which will give rubbish sound unless I fork out for a smart speaker. I won't be able to independently manage recordings because the phone doesn't allow for deletion, and because my dad will be recording his own stuff as well I will have to ask him any time I want to delete something. I know there was the issue about seeing what you have recorded on the planner without multi room, but that won't be an issue for me as we have two tvs in the house, so I think we would still need multi room.
what is this new sky x system that you mentioned oliver, if I missed out any accessibility issues please do mention them as I will need to have all information to convince dad to stay on the plus system. though just to be balanced if there are any accessibility advantages to q I would be interested in knowing as well, I know about the voice controlled remote, but I mostly see that as a bit of a ggimmick.

Hi Oliver thanks for your reply, to be honest in my case I can't see any advantage to q over plus for me, as you say audio description with family can be problematic, dad hates it so we tend to watch programs separately even if watching the same thing. to be honest I don't want to waste my time watching the same program twice with and without description. and I believe airplay is only for audio isn't it and doesn't mean picture as well? I had forgotten about the hole mini box thing till you mentioned it and I reviewed some of this thread. I suppose q is tolerable if you live in your own house but for me it really wouldn't be fun as dad records tv most nights, and in fact I have stuff going back years on my box I really should get around to watching so I can imagine finding it very frustrating fighting with the planner and remote, finding new things just popping up in my planner and not being able to memorize anything, and it would just be undignified having to either ask him to manage recordings for me, or treck down stairs to try to delete something myself. I think we can be pretty sure sky haven't taken accessibility into account with x based on the design of q and how it took them ages to sort plus out with that planner issue. in fact the pluss app is in violation of apples guidelines as it doesn't respect the switch that allows people to turn off apps asking for reviews.

Alex and update Hi Alex and all. Alex, I can’t seem to find an email from you. When did you email? As for sky multi room, I did settle my grievance with Sky having visited their offices and been given certain assurances of progress being made and vague plans for the future. I checked a few months ago with Sky and They assured me that all staff should now be aware that as a reasonable adjustment, multi room would be available on a case-by-case basis for free for blind customers. My main contact at Sky is Andy on the Sky Priority Customer team. And if individuals are still finding that the accessibility team and is aware of this, please ask them to speak to Andy at the Sky Priority Customer team. His username is Andy14 I believe. The app is now pretty much fully accessible but not the most obvious user interface. I have recently been told that there has been some exciting progress and I will be updated shortly. Come back to me if you continue to have issues with regards to the multi room subscription and I would be happy to contact sky again myself as I have a written agreement regarding this issue. I will give them a call now just to chase them up.

Hi peter and all, its obviously good sky want us to have a good customer experience, but the fact is that q has been designed from the ground up with sighted people in mind, and with the main box being a shared space where everyone has there recordings, the fact is that when accessibility is an afterthought and bolted on retrospectively its going to give a poor experience, the issues with managing recordings, playing back are a deal breaker for me and mean I have no interest in it and wouldn't recommend it to people if they asked. the problem is the digitaleconomy act means that providers do have to make description available through there apps, though some still have yet to do so, but I don't think it provides for apps and services being accessible, the problem is that each disability or condition has its own definition of what accessible is, and sometimes these can conflict.

I’ve spoken to my contact at Sky and he has advised me that the accessibility team have been informed about our agreement for sky multi room to be provided for free as a reasonable adjustment for visually impaired customers who rely on it because they need to use the Sky Q app to have some Level of independence access to the box I’ve spoken to my contact at Sky and he has advised me that the accessibility team have been informed about our agreement for sky multi room to be provided for free as a reasonable adjustments to those visually impaired customers who rely on it because they need to use the sky queue appvto have some access to the box. Customers should speak to the accessibility team and they should be able to give you the necessary information and support. If you find that they are telling you this is not possible, you should then ask for it to be escalated to their manager, and if still any issues continue to insist that it be escalated the chain. Feel free to post here and I will also feedback To my contacts. I can’t really say much but I have had some more information today regarding progress In resolving the known accessibility issues with Sky Q I have now put more pressure on Sky as I personally feel things could be progressing quicker but equally they have been quite honest with me about some of the issues that have arisen since my visit and it’s clear that they are doing all they can to resolve them as soon as possible. I will continue to update the forum as and when I am able to. Keep me updated about any issues you may have either on the forum or you can email me atPeterholdstock@msn.com

that's all great to know peter, and definitely would be good to know as and when accessibility issues get resolved, changed etc. Luckily we are not jumping to q yet, but probably will in the next year or so grr.

HI all. We have had our Sky q installation. I contacted the Accessibility Team and explained that I was aware of the policy of refunding the multi-screen subscription for blind people who need to use the app to access content on the box (from online forums). Sky have agreed to refund the cost. The first person I spoke to on the Accessibility team was not aware of this policy, but listened to my explanation and without prompting or pressure said that she would speak to a colleague. She called me back a few minutes later and confirmed the refund, which was perfectly reasonable. The refund was implemented by adding me to the Sky VIP loyalty programme. I haven't had a full bill yet so can't confirm whether the refund has actually worked but I see no reason why it won't have done.
The accessibility Team did explain to me that if we wanted a Sky Q mini box in another room we would have to pay for the multi-screen subscription, which is fair enough.
With the multi-screen subscription I can stream live TV from the box to the app on my phone, but there is no audio description, even if we are watching the same programme with AD on the TV at the same time. I can also browse through the list of recordings on the box using the app and stream them to my phone, but again there is no audio description even if the programme was recorded with AD.
However, if I download a recorded programme from the box to the phone, it does have AD.
The drawback with this is that not all programmes are available to download; specifically it appears that BBC programmes are not downloadable in this way, meaning that there does not seem to be a way of accessing BBC shows with AD via the Sky Q app. I think this is because the BBC want us to use IPlayer, which does have audio described shows, but not downloads with AD.
As you would expect, downloading with AD seems to work for most Sky content I have tried.
I will have to check if downloading works for ITV, Channel 4 and 5 shows as well as Sky. If it does then this will be useful as there is currently no AD on ITV Hub and sometimes AD versions of shows don't always appear on All 4 when they should.
In addition, app downloads are only available for thirty days and expire 48 hours after you start watching them, whereas recordings remain on the box until you delete them. So the app does have some limitations compared to the box.
As has been mentioned, you cannot delete recordings using the app. This will have to be my wife's job as she is fully sighted. But even if I could see I don't think she would let me delete anything anyway :).
The playback controls in the app are very hit and miss - voice Over goes into what I think is called "direct touch" mode when you begin playback, where the screen behaves as if Voice Over is not running, so you scroll with one finger and activate items with a single tap. There is no Voice Over feedback or speech when in this mode. This makes it impossible for me to pause or navigate through shows and to stop playback you have to be able to do a single tap on the back button at the top left of the screen which involves a lot of trial and error but I have found it to be doable.
I would, of course, like to see a fully comprehensive accessibility solution in place for blind customers which enables full access to all recordings and functions. I am hoping that this policy to re-fund the multi-screen subscription, which provides limited access to the box and its content, is the beginning and not the end of making Sky Q more accessible. However, it is good to see that this refund policy has been implemented and that the Accessibility Team as a whole are aware of it.

Hi James, thanks for your comments on this and explaining about further issues you are experiencing, sky q sounds like total junk from an accessibility point of view when compared to plus which is far from perfect, but at least gives basic independence which q doesn't seem to. I wasn't aware of the audio description issues that plague q either.

Hi James, thanks for the warning about freesat, I wasn't aware that suffered with accessibility issues, I was telling my dad about that the other day as he was bemoaning his high bill he pays from sky, think I will quietly let that one drop, as it turns out his high bill is is own fault for not renewing his contract with sky.
as to rnib yes they have worked with sky to make the sky talker, which I never had the dubious pleasure of trying, but by all accounts it was never that reliable and frequently crashed and was never really updated or supported by sky. the rnib does very little of use in my view and mostly just exists to perpetuate itself.

I’m glad to hear that other users are starting to see some benefit to my negotiations with Sky. Again, I can’t share any information on here for obvious reasons but I can Say that other improvements have been made and although not major developments, I certainly are a step in the right direction and my impression is that Sky will continue to make improvements As more resource has been put in place to specifically look at these issues Sky Q is certainly usable once someone becomes used to the user interface and it’s quirks. I’m not sure I’d go back to SkyQ now as there are advantages to sky Q. I will certainly continue to forward feedback from this forum to my contact at Sky as and when appropriate but please can everyone make sure that they raise any issues with the access ability to and if you receive Park ostomy service, please progress your concerns through the sky complaints procedure as I would hope and expect all of these complaints should now be treated with the importance they deserve which may not of been the case

Hi folks,

I've a suspicion, in fact, that RNIB held us back on this one. Before we all started campaigning on this, and before Peter really got into his excellent work with sky, the response you would normally get from Sky was that the RNIB had told them SkyQ was accessible, so that was that as far as Sky was concerned. If that's right it suggests that RNIB has minimal expectations for products such as this. It may not be right, of course, but if you look at how little RNIB has done in the DAB radio market by comparison, it lends weight to the idea that this is not their forte. In the past I have had better advice on accessible DAB radios from Roberts than I have from RNIB.

agree about rnib, and as to dab radios your right, I think the only people active in this space are the BWBF, but most of there radios don't quite meet my needs, the concerto2 was closest to meeting them, but I don't think it is a true modern dab radio at least for its broadcasts that it picks up, and it lacks a few other features I would have found useful.
I think the rnib is only interested in trying to flog us getto specialisst expensive technology or working with us if we are very elderly, for me as someone in my 30s the rnib has very little relevance for me. the only thing they have done in the past few years which was of use to me was accessible debit and credit cards, but even that I had some issues with which they weren't useful in solving.