My thoughts on the removal of touch ID on the iPhone X

The passcode continues to be far and away the most secure option. This because you can't be physically forced to enter your passcode, but you can be forced to place your finger on the touch id. This difference has already come into play in many US investigations where police have been allowed to force an unlock using touch id but not a passcode. Unless you make mistakes like using one of the top ten most common passcodes or go around telling people your code, it's the most secure option hands down.

With that said, entering a passcode can be annoying. It's certainly not the most convenient option. But your post only discussed security. I agree that more is better and Apple could include a reader. I also vehemently disagreed with the removal of the analog jack. But Apple seems to be trending toward as few pieces of IO as conceivable.

I'm not worried about it right now, that's the highest end iPhone, and the eights have the finger print ID if I have to replace my 7. I am, though, slightly concerned about the glass backs, but I've always used an Odderbox on my iPhone.
I'm too lazy to relearn all the gestures and switch to anything else if I did have a problem with it.

They should of never gotten rid of touch ID! Someone can also make you look at your phone! My brother who's sighted said he doesn't want to have to look at his phone every time to unlock it. Also they should have never made an iPhone that costs $1000+ that's just rediculous! When it comes time for me to update my phone if the phones are even worse I may jump ship. Also I don't want a phone made out of glass that's just the worst idea ever! Anyone else remember when you didn't need a case to protect your phone? It wasn't a smart phone but as technology advances how it is made becomes more breakable.

This is what I am doing with touch ID anyway.

The iPhone ten, not X, hasn't come out yet, and people are griping. Having said that, now, I very much prefer a fingerprint ID to unlock my phone because I use Voice-Over. When I enter a password, people have now heard it. I am generally not a headset or ear bud wearer. As for the elimination of the home button, if it is not replaced with something that performs the same function that a totally blind person can accurately use, the removal is a terrible idea. The idea of placing the fingerprint sensor on the back of the phone is not a good idea unless cases are made that leaves that area exposed. I did not like the removal of the headset jack, either, but they at least did provide an alternative. As for the glass back instead of aluminum, this is to provide wireless charging, which I am OK with. My case is going to protect the phone from breakage, so that won't be an issue. I do feel that the cost of the iPhone ten is too high, though. For now, I will stick with my 256 gig 7 plus. It works perfectly after a year of use and will be able to handle any iOS updates for, hopefully, a good long time.

For starters, I agree with the previous post. For some who have an iPhone 7/7 Plus, even a 6S/6S Plus, it is not worth upgrading to the 8/8 Plus. I myself came from a 6 Plus, and I find it was definitely worth upgrading as my 6 Plus was starting to show its age. I got the 8 Plus and find it much faster then my old one. As for the iPhone X, although it is a very pretty phone, it is way to over priced and I don't yet trust Facial ID. Mainly because it is a 1st generation technology on the iPhone, there are still some concerns with anyone just having your phone unlocked without you ever knowing. Granted that someone could use my finger to unlock my phone while I was sleeping, same as with Facial ID, but it is significantly more difficult to unlock my phone with Touch ID while I am awake then it is for Facial ID.

I'm sure that sometime in the future, fingerprint recognition will be a thing of the past, but for now, I believe that they could have easily had both technologies on one device. But you know Apple, it takes "courage" to do things differently. The one thing I miss on my iPhone is the headphone jack, which I still think they could have kept it, but most of the time, I use bluetooth headphones on my daily commute anyways. The only time I find it frustrating is when I am at home, there I use headphones with a typical headphone jack. Although the lightning headphones are good in a pinch, I still prefer my big studio headsets. But that is fine, I knew very well what I would be losing when I bought my 8 Plus and am living with my decision. No matter what happens, companies will do what they want to do, whether we like it or not, it doesn't mean we have to buy their products if we don't like what they are doing. The more companies are trying new things to innovate, the more it influences other companies designs. At least now, compared to about 10 to 15 years ago, we have some choice in the device we want. Back then, we were stuck with a particular type of phone, and had to buy a screen reader for it seperately.

Well all. It is call progress. Cope with it and face ID will get better. Progress is part of life. Those who do not like it or care for it, need help.

I work as a cybersecurity specialist. Let me set the record straight regarding something set here: a passcode is much more secure than either a fingerprint or your face. A passcode or password, if you don't write it down or tell it to anyone, exists only in one place: your head. Coupled with the data erase feature and not using something ridiculous like 000000, it won't be able to be brute forced. Your fingerprint, however, can simply be lifted from a surface you've touched and used to fool Touch ID or, failing that, someone can grab your finger and stick it on your phone. Facial ID is even less secure, because all someone will have to do is hold the phone in front of your face, regardless of what Apple claims about attention being required--if it is held in front of your face long enough, you'll end up looking at it eventually.
In addition, there's the law enforcement angle to consider: in most countries (though not all), law enforcement are forbidden to demand your password from you without due process. They are not forbidden from collecting bio metric data, however, and are in fact required to do so. With what they collect as required, they can unlock Touch ID with no effort whatsoever and are not forbidden to do so.
I'm not saying you shouldn't use Touch ID or face ID. I'm only trying to set the record straight about the levels of security each function has. Apple themselves understand how much stronger a passcode is, which is why they added the feature in iOS 11 to quickly disable all bio metric unlock features (press the lock button five times rapidly to do this). There's no doubt, however, that bio metric functions are much more convenient than requiring a passcode all the time. In the end, everyone has to decide for themselves. I personally do use Touch ID as it is just too convenient to use it, especially when I wake up in the morning and need to shut my alarm off.

Frankly, I'm surprised this is becoming such a big issue among the blind community. Essentially, all the "features" the iPhone X has over the 8 and 8 Pluss are visual. Given the additional cost of the iPhone X, why would any blind person want the iPhone X unless they had a business reason for it. The iPhone 8 and 8 Plus still have Touch ID.

Also, keep in mind that the "Attention" mode (the requirement to look at the phone) can be turned off in the Accessibility settings. This is obviously to accommodate the needs of users that cannot "look" at the phone.

I'm with Blinken223. I upgraded from an iPhone 6 to an iPhone 8 and I'm very, very happy with my decision to do so. The iPhone X wasn't even a temptation for me. Given where I came from, I gained more than a faster processor and wireless charging. I gained 3D Touch, Hey Ciri and a faster, more accurate finger print reader.

I can understand that upgrading from an iPhone 7 or 7 Plus may not make much sense. I suspect if I had an iPhone 7, I wouldn't have upgraded myself. Even if I had an iPhone 6S, it might have given me pause. But for anyone with a 6 or older iPhone, an upgrade makes sense to me. But unless you have enough vision (therefore the ability to "look" at the phone) to appreciate the better display, one of the iPhone 8 models (with Touch ID) makes the most sense. I could care less whether the iPhone X lacks Touch ID.

At the end of the day, there are advantages and disadvantages to Apple and Google products. They both have their strength and weaknesses. Thankfully, there are many options to choose from. Just because Apple has the iPhone X, doesn't mean people have to buy it. As for the Galaxy S8, it is a great phone and it's great that it has both, but the facial ID can be hacked, and although Apple is claming theirs is better, we'll all find out once the iPhone X is in the wild, then we'll see just how true Apple's claims are. As I said, the Galaxy S8 does have its strength and weaknesses, but there isn't really one phone to rule them all. People just have to do the research and find the phone that is the best fit for them. I have both an Galaxy S6 and an iPhone 8 Plus, and although I do like Samsung's design, I still find myself using my 8 Plus as my daily driver, its the better fit for me and just works. But like I said, that's for me and not necessarily for others. If people don't like the Facial ID on the iPhone X, then don't buy the iPhone X. Find what works for you.

I can kind of understand the backlash against Apple removing Touch ID on the iPhone 10. Yes, the 8/8 plus/SE are probably better fits, but that's right now. I think people are afraid that in a few years Face ID and the edge to edge display will trickle down and become the standard on all iPhones. I think a lot of times people are afraid of the unknowns that come with something new. Let's go back and look at when the MacBook Air came out in 2008. Back then Apple positioned it as a premium laptop because of how they had to make everything fit etc. Everyone was losing their minds because the MBA didn't have an optical drive, but all the other Macs did. A couple of years later they got costs down enough that they could make the Air the standard MacBook, and now I don't think there are any current Macs with an optical drive. Hmmmmm, you never hear anyone complaining about that anymore. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a huge uproar when Microsoft moved from dos to Windows. That turned out fine, although it probably took some time to get there. Just my $0.02 and something else to consider.

I'm still annoyed about the headphone jack. Sometimes a "bold" decision is still a bad one, especially if all it means is a bigger profit margin from selling more dongles and adapters. Sorry, but Apple doesn't deserve to be defended for everything they do. And change in technology on a yearly basis isn't inevitable. Most of the code in iOS and other platforms dates back to the 70s. Apple and other companies condition us to expect change every year, though, otherwise we'll just sit on our old phones. That's pretty much what happened to the iPad. It's planned obsolescence, not real change or innovation.

This is one of those topic that will certainly have people with differences. Rightfully, so as none of us have tried or used this new facial recognition by Apple. This is a whole new experience and something that the technology is taking us.

I personally don't think we have anything to worry about when it comes to will this work for us. It is obvious that Apple did keep us in mind when they developed this new Technogym. I also believe that we will not have to worry about if my face in the right spot and such. It isn't like I must get my face in the box or frame before it works. I think it will be a lot easier than we think and it will become second nature once you get the hang of how to unlock the device.

Besides, the rumors are already circulating that the next models by Apple will all have this new feature. It isn't a matter if but when. I have also been reading that other brands are now starting to ditch the idea of trying to find a way to have the touch reader imbedded in the screen anymore now that Apple have dumped that attempt. This was a curve ball that many brands did not see coming and I am positive that we will start to so many Droids starting to follow suit.

There will be people that will not like this new direction but as one mentioned above. Progress. No, we don't have to like it but like it or not. This will be the new norm in future devices. There will be only way to know and that is to wait and see but I'm betting the farm that we will.

As for mentioning about the security. I am also in the agreement that the passcode is the best and most secure way for any devices. Not just having a 4 digit or even a 6-digit passcode. But you real need to have more and use a mixture between characters with your numbers if you want the ultimate security. As we all know that variety of ways to break in to a device is the crude brute force that have seen being sold in the wild for a nominal price. These devices can crack a 4 to 6 digit quite easily and in a reasonable amount of time. So, nothing is fool proof but I can promise that even mixing up the passcode with characters and numbers will make the process extremely difficult.

Apple did make the claim that the facial recognition will be significantly more secured than the touch reader itself. However, as that may be true but in all reality if someone forces me to do something regardless which method I use. Will make no difference. So, security will become a moot point in which method you use when it comes to use the facial recognition or the touch reader for better security.

So back to the original question of the discussion. What do I think? In all honesty I'm not worried about it. I think I'm going to like the new technology as I have when I first learned about the touch reader. Just a new technology that is now being introduce and I think we will be forced to use the facial recognition as more and more devices go this direction. That includes the new iPhones and the various Droids out there. I am not worried about the security nor the thought if this will even work for us. As like anything new it takes time for us to learn and understand as we get to play with it. So, I'm looking forward to this. If that is on the next set of phones by Apple then so be it. At some point I know I will have no other choice. I don't think it will be that big of a deal as some think it will be but I do understand that some will simply hate it. If that makes you want to jump ship then so be it. You do what you think you need to do.

Yes, this has a lot of similarity of when we found out that Apple has decided to ditch the headphone jack. There were a lot of concerns and rightfully so just as we do with the facial recognition. What I find a bit amusing is that the brands that came to mock Apple last year that they decided to dump the headphone jack to only just recently started to do the same thing but that is for another topic and discussion. ;)

Holger Fiallo, your post made me laugh. I don't think the phone will prick our finger for DNA ID. All we need to do is to spit on our phones for that. <LOL>

By that time they'll have the iPhone implant and we'll be complaining about not being able to take brain pictures through our eyes and don't forget the hackers...

I still think the removal of the headphone jack was an offel idea. I also still think face ID is a bad idea not because of security but because of the added hasel to remove my phone from my pocket to unlock it. Also no longer being able to privately unlock my iPhone with out everyone else noticing. I wish my iPhone was smaller like my iPod as well! just because Apple makes these changes doesn't mean everyone has to be happy with them. There's nothing we can do to stop them but we don't have to like them.

Just thought I'd point out that when typing your passcode when using braille screen input doesn't announce the numbers out loud like it does when using the numeric keypad.

That is how I enter my code.

You still get the key clicks.

Molly, what would be the point if Talk Back isn't working well? When we have something already solid and is known to work extremely well with VoiceOver? Perhaps I am missing something of your question.

The other question you ask if I would be willing to try the facial recognition on the Galaxy s8? That is simple. No way. Why? Very simple. When I can take a profile from your Facebook page to use that to gain access in to the Galaxy s8. That alarms me that it's that easy to gain access in to my device. That is probably why a lot of people will tell you that the facial recognition on the Galaxy s8 is horrible and even think twice to use that to secure your phone.

Do I think Apple is perfect? That is a silly question to ask. No Apple isn't perfect. There are a lot of issues with any device that you use. Do I tend to trust Apple more? Yes, I do. I mean there was a lot of thought that went to the development of this type of facial recognition. They made very sure that it couldn't be fooled as those other facial recognition that you can find on other brand devices. Also, remember my biggest thing about Android is that Google designed the OS. I think many people forget that Google makes money of your data. That is why the OS is free because you have given the permission for them to use and sell information about you for that free OS. Where Apple has repeal have said many times that your data is very secured and not being sold by Apple. Sure, there are some ads here and there on those free apps but again they are free for a reason. They also watch in what you do but the biggest thing to know is that all the Apps can't communicate with the OS and other Apps to gather all the information as you do with the devices like the Galaxy s8. Lastly, remember also that the facial recognition on the Galaxy S8 has had some serious backlash because it can't determine certain feature or color of your skin to cause it to fail. Obviously, not a lot of R&D went in to this thought and was only more concern the bottom dollars and that they were the first to have something to only be a total failure. I don't mean to sound so harsh but that is the reality. I am glad that there are options. I'll admit that the Galaxy s8 would be awesome to use because you can make so much more tweaks to the OS to your likely where Apple does not. In the end for me it's about superior quality, does it retain resell value, security, will it support the newest OS on a four-year-old device or even a year old one, and most of all does it work for what I want it to be used for. Now, I am very happy with my iPhone and I have zero interest in using the Galaxy s8. If people are happy in using the Galaxy s8 that is great! I say use it!

We are the borg. Resistance is futile! Anyway, think about this for a sec peeps! In a few years, maybe tomorrow, there'll be iPhones with "retinal scanners" that can just scan your eye by putting the device close to the eye, and it'll shine an infrared beam or something like it and then it'll say something like, "Please wait during retinal scan, keep eye open during this process." "scan complete" "device opened" Anyway, just my sci-fi brain + a little star trek humor in there. I totally support the iPhone X and face ID as being the new norm for unlocking. Personally, touch iD is a waste of time most of the time, if your hands are cold, or your fingers perspire naturally or are wet for any reason, the finger print reader will not work at all. That is one of my gripes of touch ID and it has always been one of those since my iPhone 5S a few years ago. I can't wait to see what comes of the face ID on the iPhone X. Personally this speculation is just opinions, and We'll have to just wait and see from podcasts/other info on how this new technology works.
Rant/post over!

And there's nothing wrong with that. Whatever works for whatever you are using is great. It's just in my case, I don't plan on making the switch to android. At least, not in the near future.

In my honest opinion, things really started going downhill when they introduced the rotary dial to the Telephone.

Before that you simply had to go into the room with the Telephonic Machine in it, pick the bakelite hand-piece up from the timber box mounted to the wall, depress the iron lever three times and say, in a loud clear voice, "A-Hoy-Hoy!". After which Mabel, from theTelephonic Exchange, would make your connection. Simple.

Everything since then has been a problem...

I think your comparison might be more apt if Bell had "upgraded" the original telephone to remove the receiver, so you had to stick your head in a bucket to talk. And the bucket cost $140. And then they put a lid on the bucket, and you had to pull the lid off with your teeth. And then fanboys told you how much better the bucket system is, and chortled at people who liked the receiver.

I will also never get an Android again. After 5.0 came out and Samsung messed up, I found that I could do so little without having choppy Talkback. Worse yet, Code Factory refused to update Eloquence to work correctly on Samsung devices once 5.0 came out. Is Apple perfect? No, but things overall still work pretty well.

Hello,

It’s called innovation. Is it great? It will depend who you ask. I laugh at the OP for saying Apple is going down hill for removing the touch ID, unlike on the Samsung, they still retained it. The only reason Samsung kept the finger print ID is because they know their facial and retina recognition is unsecure and/or unreliable. And what a silly place to put it, on the back of the phone. That’s not innovation.

I know of a couple of blind users that are already using an iPhone X in the wild. The facial ID is very reliable. The only problem you will encounter is when someone asks to see it, you hand them the phone and after the FID doesn’t recognize the face, it locks. So when you get it bafck, you will likely need to enter the password.

I am not sure why folks are talking down on FID or the decision to remove the TID. I recall the uproar when Apple announced touch ID. Folks worried about their finger prints being collected or how it will not work properly. I also recall the uproar when Apple said they would no longer include floppy drives on their computers. Do you folks miss your floppy drives? Then more uproar when they said no more CD or DVD drives. Do you miss your drives? Same things with the headphone jacks and touch ID. Give it time and go with the flow and in a few years, we will look back and laugh about the things we had to do.

BTW, when you open some apps, do you get prompted to enter a password? I heard on the X, it does not happen.

I have seen a lot of posts about how Apple is better than Android and/or vice versa. I will try not to offer my opinion in this thread, as people have yet to learn how to use a forum without trolling. True story.
I will ask a question, however, as I have also seen some posts about the lack of efficiency with TalkBack.
My question: Is Speil (or Spiel) still available? Back in the ye olde days of Frozen Yogurt there was a 3rd party Screen Reader called "Spiel" (apologies if misspelled) which was written by a blind programmer. It was rather amazing at the time.
Just curious if it still exists for Android?

Dear Patrick,
I absolutely love all of the features of my new iPail2 Bucket-phone.

With my head in the all new, patented form fitting bucket, the 3D sound quality is amazing. Accessability is a breeze, courtesy of the additional real estate afforded by the larger form barrel.

I also feel safe knowing my calls to Henry and Eliza are protected with the implementation of worlds first Bucket Data encryption technology.

With the addition of the Lid to the iPail2, my Bucket Phone is now water-proof, dust safe and can better withstand the occasional drop or knock.

I have quickly taken for granted all of the changes and improvements from my old non-bucket phone and can scarcely remember being so horrified when the of a bucket was first floated.

I do, however, wish it to be known that any potential changes to the form or function of my iPail2 will only ruin the experience and cause me to question not just every aspect of my life but also the life choices of everyone involved in it's redesign, manufacture or marketing.

Sincerely

Hi! To get back to the subject this thread is meant to be about, I personally think that, as I write this, so few people have used an iPhone X that Face ID is an unknown creature to most iPhone users. For this reason, I think it's best to wait and see how well Face ID actually works when more people get the iPhone X: I am certainly dcurious about how well Face ID will work for blind iphone users. In the meantime, I know I can't afford an iPhone X, so I am saving up for an iPhone 8 to replace my three-year-old iPhone 6: both phones have the same size screen, which feels just right for me as someone who doesn't need a big screen because I can't see it anyway and have small hands. If Apple decides that all future iphones will have Face ID, having a Touch ID iPhone for the next few years will give me plenty of time to get used to the idea of Face ID and whatever other changes Apple brings us. I'm still happy with IOS, in spite of its imperfections, so switching to Android isn't something I'd consider right now, even if that could mean not losing fingerprint recognition.

Molly, the iPhone X has not been done before and Apple did not claim it had "invented" wireless charging. In fact, they made the point that they used an existing standard, something out of the ordinary for Apple to do and something I applaud them for doing.

Regarding Face ID, they didn't claim they were the only ones doing it, they just claimed to do it better. Of course, that remains to be seen, but their 3D IR imaging is theirs and is likely to make Apple's Face ID more secure than other company's previous implementations.

Actually, what Apple should be thanking Samsung for is the OLED screen. Apple is using Samsung's OLED screen in the iPhone X.

Clare, I agree with you completely. I upgraded from an iPhone 6 to the iPhone 8 and am so very happy with my decision. I wasn't the least bit tempted by the iPhone X. If Apple does eventually eliminate Touch ID and go with Face ID on all their phones, I'll have my iPhone 8 with Touch ID that I can use until more data is in about Face ID. If Apple goes with Face ID there will be time to work out how accessibility will be handled with it. In the meantime, Clare, I hope you manage to get your iPhone 8 and enjoy it as much as I'm enjoying mine.

Apple failed to sell me on Face ID, and here's why.

If you look at what was said during the product announcement, Touch ID was described as "Fast and easy...the gold standard of consumer device biometric protection". It was stated that the odds of someone randomly unlocking your phone was 1 in 50,000. Those are incredible odds. Apple gave me no reason to be dissatisfied with Touch ID. No reason to want anything more. Apple told me Touch ID was wonderful.

Apple went on to say the Face ID is better in terms of a random person unlocking your phone - 1 in a million. So, apparently, Apple is targeting the super-paranoid with this feature. For me personally, no one has ever used my cell phone unauthorized in the entire 16 years that I've owned a cell phone, so I guess I'm not too concerned about the added security Face ID would afford.

I think it's important to note that, by their own act of including Touch ID in the iPhone 8, Apple is implicitly saying Touch ID is good enough to be in a brand new product currently rolling out. This is an implicit blessing of Touch ID, and again calls into question the need of Face ID for anything other than the super paranoid.

Apple also implied that Face ID in and of itself wasn't so important compared to the underlying technology, which they are of course exposing to developers with the expectation that developers will do something that is actually useful with the tech.

So while the tech is quite impressive, and you can do cool things with it like Face ID and animojis, Apple failed to convince me that Face ID was a necessary feature.

I'm not trying to be an Apple hater. I'm just telling you what I heard, or didn't hear, Apple say.

To me, fingerprint ID is secure enough, and I do miss the headset jack because I can not plug my iPhone into a USB port to charge while running the iPhone into a mixer connected to my computer. Newer, Holger, is not always better. I would prefer them to add features rather than to add features but remove others that are useful and reliable.

I don't understand why blind folks are worried about Face ID. Is it so hard to look at a phone even if one is blind? Reminds me of the time that some grade school kid asked how I could brush my teeth if I couldn't see.

I do agree that Face ID might not be the most secure option since someone can most likely take your phone and get you to look at it. On the other hand, I get frustrated with touch ID some times after washing my hands or taking a shower and touch ID will no longer work. There are also other folks who routinely have trouble getting their fingerprints identified by touch ID systems. So it is nice that there isn't only one option and that people have choices these days.

One more thing: I agree with the other poster on this list asking why a blind person would even want the iPhone X. Seems like most of the difference between the iPphone 8 and iPhone X are functions oriented to being used with vision.

https://www.macrumors.com/2017/10/25/apple-reduced-face-id-accuracy-iphone-x/

btw, they said it was 1 in 1 million? why not 1,128,656 or 930,713? i'm always skeptical of nice round numbers. it's like saying this thing is 100 times better. it's just a sentiment or marketing talk, not a real statistical significant number.

It turns out that Bloomberg's claims were false.

https://www.imore.com/apple-bloombergs-face-id-claim-completely-false

I jus use face ID it is verry awesome,
yess, theres A doun site
I always looking to my phone to unlock face ID.
in the good way is if I use touch ID, if my finger IS wet, usualy fayl to unlock my phone.
if using face ID it never hapen.