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This message highlights much thinking that I seriously disapprove of within the blindness community. Many seem to think that, because we are blind, we are above everyone else and can do as we like. I want to take the time to respond to all points Alex brings up: 1. "the method I use for removing drm is not designed to steel content from apple, in fact completely the reverse. You actually have to pay for books legitimately in the app store, and you can't remove drm from books someone gives you a copy of. This is because the book has to be authorised to be accessible on your devices, and must be authorised by itunes before you can remove the drm." Have you considered that this isn't an Apple issue? As I have already said, publishers have rights and it is thinking like this that loses us content in the long run. We expect equal access to material and then cause trouble for ourselves as a blind community. Justification for this is similar to saying that I have the right to make bombs and become a terrorist because bomb making instructions and religious extremism is all over the internet. We don't, and stripping DRM because you feel all hurt that you can't play books on other devices isn't a legit excuse anyway as Apple provides many devices that play those books. If you can't find a suitable device to play the books, don't use Apple kit. iPads, phones, pods, all the touch devices play these files. We are not restricted and it's not even as if navigation is much of an issue either. 2. "I don't see why we shouldn't be allowed to use content that we have legally paid for how we see fit." We live in a world of change. We aren't in a free open society with regards to content delivery and with good reason. P2P users/stealers in my opinion have enhanced the use of DRM in the first place. The fact that publishers have to do this for legal reasons anyway keeps escaping people's notice. 3. "I am considering posting a guide on removal of drm on the site, as its not steeling from apple, and its simply adapting content for use how you like. also, apple music is now drm free, and we can use it how we like so surely the same should be true of ebooks." Again, publishers, publishers, publishers. Music is only DRM free on the iTunes store after many years of discussion with labels. Believe me, they don't want it to be DRM free, they'd rather have there stuff protected. It was the monopoly on stuff playing on iPods only that really was the issue. M4A files are usable on many devices these days, so really they are using a tactic to make more money in the long term. Books are entirely different because of the format of the files. We don't expect to view spreadsheets in word processors because the file format isn't compatible do we? It's the same for iBooks. iBooks is an experience in reading, if you don't like it, get off Apple's lawn and stick to other formats. As to writing a guide on how to do it, I hope the mods ban you from here permanently for even suggesting it. It is about time that honest payers and users stick up for themselves. Blind people seem to expect everything for free as I already pointed out and it's not exactly fair to us who are trying to improve the reading situation for VI folks. We have restrictions as it is, why make them tighter. 4. "drm removal does leave identification tags in place on the decrypted files so unless other software was used to deliberately remove those which I haven't done its still possible for people to find out who's a particular copy of a book is." You haven't removed the tags with ID info in apparently so that makes it alright? What a ridiculous thing to suggest, just because you haven't, doesn't mean people won't. Really, it is a question of fairness rather than openness. Again, publishers rights are important. We've all taken books from illegal sources as VI folks because we had no choice. Now that we do, don't rock the boat and mess things up for other people. 5. "also, all the information and software to remove drm is in the public domain anyway, you just have to go to the right places" See point 1. 6. "honestly people should stop being so proodish like the mods on the viPhone list, I hardly think apple will care about already publicly available information being redistributed, and our community is so small we are not worth their attention." Firstly, Apple will care about helping us in the future if we at least don't attempt to play fair. Saying that just because I buy a book gives me the rights to do whatever I want doesn't hold much water either. In that case, the RNIB in the UK can braille any books they want because they are in print. Fact, they can't. They have to get publishers rights to do it. As to us being a small community, that doesn't make it right that we should also be the community that cheats and steals from the system. The VI community should be grateful to have books to read on these devices at all, we're not exactly swamped with enjoyable content designed for us are we? How many audio described movies are there on the iTunes store? How many DAISY books are there really available that aren't literary as opposed to academic? You'll find that DAISY's uptake is pretty pore and that is a real VI format with so much potential and promise - that's for a different discussion. I'm not responding to be difficult, just offering an interesting perspective. If mods ban me for it, then so be it. I don't want to be a part of a community that pirates because the world owes them. All the best -James-

Again, i'll go through point by point as best as possible. 1. "I don't look on this as piracy at all. You say publishers have rights and in principal I agree with you, however, the fact that apple books are only readable on apple devices doesn't really give us choice, it gives us the elusion of choice, because apple has the monopoly on reading. If apple were to create a system with publishers where content could be licensed to a set number of devices rather than only apple devices this would be much better." I think you don't really get what I am suggesting. I think that iBooks is, in effect, the experience of both purchasing/reading the books. I genuinely don't consider Apple to have any monopoly on reading at all, in fact quite the reverse. iBooks isn't the only format. It's as if you are suggesting that Apple are somehow wrong to want to protect there content. Your point on an audible like system for device authorisation is already in effect. Apple allows you to use iBooks on various devices within that ecosystem. 2. "If the license said you can use these files on two or three devices of your choice enforced by some sort of software that would be fine with me, as I would have the freedom to do what I wanted, but within limits, and in fact I think that's how audible do things, they don't restrict you to particular brands of mp3 players, they give you an option to use content on the pc, and an option to burn on to cd, that in my view is the way this content should be handled, as they try to satisfy all there users and don't just force you to use one kind of device for using content." Again, it is the reading experience that Apple is marketing. iBooks isn't just a press play and listen system. There are many functions in the iBooks app, especially for the more academic books that make it a serious program. Anyone that suggests that Audible have the right idea is also deluded, many crack that content also. 3. "responding to your points about described movies, there aren't any on the itunes store, but there aren't any on netflicks either, so I think your point is irrelevant in this context. Hardly but i'll not argue. Audio described content isn't all that popular generally though so I do take that point. 4. "with.Regarding Daisi format, personally I don't find it a very useful format, particularly in the books its used in. I can see for academic texts it could be of use, but I just don't find it at all useful in fiction for example." Depends on the fiction. I can think of some fiction books that were marked up well enough that the navigation is worth it. Even just to have appropriate chapter marking and phrase navigation is enough for many readers. DAISY is expandable in that way, depends on how producers want to mark up the books. 5. "Regarding the rnib and books it publishes, did you know that the cds it sends its books out on have no drm or restrictions on? so in theory anyone could make rnib based books available on line. But, the crucial point is they haven't, I haven't scene any on torrent sites for example. so if publishers were really bothered about drm and protecting themselves, why haven't they insisted the rnib uses it?" Perhaps they are unaware. Also, they state on each book that it is provided under a specific licence. I am sure that distributing the books on sites would still get you in to trouble. Take that point up with the RNIB, if they don't want to protect there content, that's there look out. As I see it, many of the older DAISY machines can't handle DRM properly anyway." 6. "your point about music playing on a wide number of devices extends to books, some people might not like the speech on the I devices for reading, you make it sound like we should be greatful for small things we are given, without campaigning for freedom of choice. I would venture to suggest that the iBooks monopoly is more for apples benefit than the publishers." I would suggest that you are wrong on this, we use technology that is appropriate for us. If we don't like the speech on iPhones, don't buy them. I don't personally like Eloquence on PC's because it sounds like a strangled gorilla. Really, the choice is simple. Buy the books on iPhones and deal with the Apple experience or don't. You seem to think that freedom extends to all areas of computing, it unfortunately doesn't. I agree with those who understand that when you pay for software or a book, you are licensing it. That is the nature of things today. As to us being grateful, we should be just that. We have been given some really good quality access to mainstream devices. How many companies have gone out of there way? Either way, this is going round in circles and you'll do what you want I suspect. All I wanted to do was put forward some debate, I don't want to spend all day arguing on this - it's not worth it.