Do you @Fleksy and AppleVis Users remember June 12, 2012?

I was one of the first to try out fleksy when I was given a code. I even made a small app demo and uploaded the recording to drop box and tweeted the link on twitter, because I was trying to encourage other blind users to jump on the bandwagon and get this app. I was impressed with the quality of the app and how well it was working, and if I had the money that month, I would have gladly paid the price. Several months after that, fleksy became a free product after several blind users put money into this project in order to ensure that it would succeed. We were even more excited to here that it could be workable on android devices. Last year, a fleksy version was released that wasn't accessible to voiceover users, so they had to release a second version to keep the blind customers satisfied. I suppose that was done so that no one would make a big deal over social media and put their reputation at risk. I would hope that wasn't the intention of all the developers, because I still think the concept of fleksy is a brilliant idea, but things have certainly gone down hill from there for us voice over users. Now, they are making it big in the third party keyboard market, again, being highly supported in the beginning by blind customers wanting desperately to make fleksy a system wide typing option... but this is not the case. Last time I used the fleksy app, I had difficulties using it, couldn't clear the text I had written unless I deleted it one word at a time, and I remember it never used to be like that. We were encouraged both in the app and over social media to leave Apple feedback to make fleksy a system-wide keyboard, and now that is now a reality, with an outcome none of us really expected. I hope that Fleksy can be improved so that the ones who first helped fleksy get on its feet can begin to use it the way it was intended to be used for. As I said before, it really is a shame this had to happen. Let's hope this isn't the end for Fleksy in the blind community.

... prefering not to use a computing device instead of having to deal with FLEKSY is overreach in my opinion. I just got an iphone late this year and only know FLEKSY in it's current state and yes there is massive room for improvement. The real problem however lies in lack of communication. As far as I have read the developers are not really engaging in conversations regarding the blind community. If that could change again and would lead for the app to be accessible again or even a fork of the app for VO-users would be awesome. And yes I'd pay for such a version.
At the end though that shouldn't be required because accessibility hadn't had to break in the first place. I fully understand the frustration of some users but being so absolute with some statements doesn't help the case and will in my opinion not bring the dialog in the right direction.

I take on board what you say Musicruz, but a relationship goes two ways. When the Fleksy team were trying to develop and expand the app, they began to run into technical problems with the support for VoiceOver. So they put time and resources into a second app called Fleksy VO to make sure we were still supported while they work out the issues with the original app. And how did the community react? It threw it back in their face, which one of them said the team found very demoralising.
The current keyboard extension is reasonably useable last time I checked, but not enough for me at least. Perhaps another Fleksy VO would work well, but they're hardly going to go down that road again.
Personally I would assume they still want to be VoiceOver friendly, I hope they'll get it right anyway. Time will tell I guess.
I also kinda think it might be time to get over the $15 thing. It was over two years ago. At the time it was both niche and worked very well. Pricing just goes that way sometimes. I still think the price of three beers was worth it, though I of course wish I was still getting the value for it.
Hope I haven't upset anyone, I just find some of the criticism a bit over the top.
Merry Christmas / Happy Holidays!
Dave

Dave:

I wasn't following the Fleksy debate (Fleksy VO vs. the regular Fleksy) when Fleksy VO was released. I thought it was *great* and took the developers at their word when they said it would be supported "forever". Yes, it's too bad they got criticized in this forum. But if they thought Fleksy VO was a good idea, at least in the interim, they shouldn't have given a crap what people said on here about how the app should be developed and shouldn't have been so thin-skinned. It's as if they expected us to be *grateful* rather than putting the appp out, fulfilling their promises and just saying "if ya don't like it, ya don't gotta use it!".

I truly think that we have been exploited. I'm not asking much. All I want is for Fleksy VO to be supported and put back in the App Store. I, for one, don't give a rat's posterior about having third-party keyboard support; I thought it a bad idea to begin with. I was in the minority. but I'd rather have a functioning Fleksy with minimal frills than all the nonsense currently going on.

To recap, the developers should have just looked at the downloads of Fleksy VO and realized that some of us thought it superb. That should have been enough IMO.

But then I'm still on iOS 7.1.2 and will continue to be until Appple decides that some of us (blind or sighted) abhor sloppy programming and are double-plus uninterested in bling but would rather have functioning devices.

Cheers!

I was one who at the time did not want a separate app. How naive I was. I do feel we shot ourselves in the foot by pitching a fit over Fleksy VO and I wish I could go back in time and sit on my hands.

What angers me the most is when flecks first launch with IOS eight the excuse was Apple didn't do something correctly with the keyboards. Apple fix that but Fleksy still in my opinion does not work well enough to be usable on a daily basis. Honestly I paid $15 as well I got good use out of it so I'm not angry about the money I just wish it was workable you know when I wanted to text somebody it would just work.

After listening to a podcast with the developer of Fleksy,, he had in fact said that work will continue on flecks and VO support. At the time, it was to respond to the inquiry behind breaking up Fleksy into two different apps. At the time, neither myself or others I would imagine would think the work the developer was referring to was on a version of the app for the sighted, and catering to the sighted with little to no focus on VO users. I for one am also quite disappointed that an app developer who claimed to want to include voiceover users, and make our lives easier has done a 360, and doesn't even care one bit about VO with respect to the current release of Fleksy. Admittedly, I've not tried Fleksy on IOS 8 due to ongoing complaints about its functionality, but it really seems like they just don't care about the Very community that supported their efforts at the beginning.

I wasn't an iPhone user when Fleksy originally started. But I was here to watch the ridiculous reaction of several members here when Fleksy VO was released. Personally, I appreciated that app, and I know there were a few others who felt the same way. But the response from a large percentage of the blind community was embarrassing, to say the least, and it wouldn't surprise me if that reaction has left them less willing to work with us.

Agreed.
The comunity should know that reacting with anger like they just did could not bring anything good at all.

In fact, many developpers who have done less than what the flexy did for accessibility did not get half of the angriness and embarassment the flexy team got when they went ahead and solve the problem. Some solve the problem the right way (good), some solve the problem using an alternative way (reazonable) and some of them just do not care.
Reacting the way the comunity reacted teached them that it would be better not to care the next time. I am not talking on behalf of them but I would probably think this way or something alike after all complaining and such.

Put pressure? Yes, of corse. I am all for this but in a strong, organized way. This would show them that the comunity wanted the accessibility back. The way it was done only show them how a comunity can be so umpolite.

But again ....... the apis are opened so anyone can go and write an accessible keyboard.

I think that flexy will at some day be accessible again, but will not blame the devs for not responding to the comunity: when they have tried to find a solution to the inaccessibility issue they only got rudness and stones thrown by the comunity. This is not something one would want for their selves again.

As Brooke and a few others have said, I think this result shouldn't be such a surprise. I don't blame the developers for staying out of this fray, and I really can't blame them for moving away from this market.

The crap they took in the past was embarrassing. The reaction to the app split alone would have driven even the most gracious and supportive developer away.

I'm not suggesting they are, or were, above criticism. But to under estimate the role the community played is naive.

I saw some of the comments both here and on social media, and they were ugly, and mean-spirited to say the very least. No wonder they don't want to have anything to do with us as a community. If I heard some of those awful things, I'd go the other way too. Sadly, I think their interaction with the blindness community is pretty much over. But if it isn't, please lets be kind to them, it could pay dividends in the end.

I don’t use Fleksy...predictive typing apps have just never appealed to me...so I’m looking at this from the standpoint of an interested spectator.

It’s sad to see where Fleksy has gone. It’s sad to see the reactions of some community members in regards to Fleksy VO. It’s sad to see that the Fleksy Team was so “demotivated” by the valid criticisms and concerns about Fleksy that they pulled Fleksy VO from the App Store and have vowed never to attempt such an effort again. And it’s also sad that we’ve now resorted to blaming each other for Fleksy’s reduced accessibility when, in all honesty, we have no control over it whatsoever.

I honestly don’t think the Fleksy Team intended to offend blind users by releasing Fleksy VO. Is it reasonable to expect them to know, for example, that there is a long history in the blind community of companies releasing “screen reader friendly” versions of their websites instead of making them universally accessible?

As much as I think the Fleksy Team had good intentions, I also can’t really blame people for getting upset with the release of a separate app for VoiceOver users. Good intentions don’t make separate equal, and I’m uncomfortable with the idea that we “should just be grateful we have accessibility at all” because this leads us to settle for mediocrity. I appreciate the developers who go above and beyond to create great and accessible apps, but there is a difference between being appreciative of developers’ efforts and being “just glad we have it at all.”

Lastly, I think removing Fleksy VO from the App Store was a mistake. It’s unfortunate that the Fleksy team felt demotivated by some of the responses to Fleksy VO. I think a lot of this, again, comes from the long history of companies creating “separate” experiences for blind users, and partly with how it was presented. I contend that they probably didn’t know any better. That said…If people want to use Fleksy VO, they should have that option. To take it away, just because of a few hurtful comments and probably many more constructive ones, just seems spiteful to me.

I completely agree with the above comment. I also believe that the response from the blind community wouldn't have been as strong if Fleksy wasn't targeted towards VO users originally. As I recall, Fleksy was specifically designed for VO users and the fact that they have taken such a strong departure from that really angered the community and rightfully so in my opinion. Although this is comparing apples to oranges in a sense, but this is equivalent to Freedom scientific ditching jaws and focusing their efforts on Magic, thereby refocusing on low vision instead of the blind. We as voiceover users put up with a lot, and when app developers go against what they said publicly, it really creates anger. Although the community shouldn't have reacted as strongly, I believe the the Fleksy developers have only themselves to blame.

I think what a lot of people don't realize is that an app like Fleksy takes a very long time to develop. Lots and lots of things go into this i.e. getting an idea of what the app looks like visually, actually building the app, beta testing it, working out bugs with several beta builds and finally, submitting the app for Apple's approval. All this takes time. Now if you had done all that, and no matter what you did, if people said all those terrible things, wouldn't you walk away too? No wonder the Fleksy folks don't take our concerns seriously...with the blind folks, their damned if they do, and damned if they don't. I'm sorry if that comes out a bit harsh, but it's true. Obviously, they had a vision for what they wanted the app to do, so to help the situation they created fleksy VO. It wasn't the ideal thing, but it did work at the time. Next time something doesn't work, I think it is very important to work with the developers of an app, not against them, and with Fleksy, that's exactly what happened. It's sad because you have good people who are ready willing and able to make Fleksy the very best it can be, but the negative comments, and trust me there were some real doozies, are keeping the Fleksy team from taking our requests seriously. They figure it'll be the same situation all over again.

Why bother? It’s obvious the developer no longer wants to work with the blind community.

After all, they came asking for assistance and in return, promised to support the blind community. The users paid for it, provided assistance and promoted the app. The users made it what it is today.

They came out with a version that didn’t work properly and some users voiced their frustration. Instead of acknowledging the problems, they pulled the app, stopped what they promised and left. Huh? What kind of business practice is that? It shows immaturity and lack of understanding how business works.

If a developer is really good and is concerned about it’s users, take all the negatives and do something about it. Imagine if all the businesses did the same thing. Imagine if Apple said oh forget about the blind community. All they do is whine about VO.

I for one would never buy anything from this developer. Even if it’s free, I would not use or endorse it. He demonstrated his lack of care or support and promises means nothing to him.

I know it sounds harsh. I know developing and supporting an app is not easy. But if you make promises, keep it. It’s what separates a good app from a bad app developer.