When I swtiched from MacOS + Voiceover to Windows + NVDA mid-2021, it felt like a breath of fresh air. I was able to do everything I wanted, and play audio games, without much - if any - friction. I self-taught myself NVDA and didn't sit there crying with frustration like I did while trying to learn VoiceOver in 2019; I had only been blind for a year and a half at that point (since 2020).
When I first started learning how to use a computer without eyesight, it was Windows 7, and JAWS 13 if memory serves. While I loved Windows 7, I absolutely hated JAWS. By 2014 I got my first Mac computer, a MacBook Pro. Two years later, I learned how to get Windows 10 Boot Camp onto said MacBook Pro. I had already been in college a few years by this point, and so started using windows for certain homework assignments, and OSx for other assignments. At the time, I thought Mac OS X was absolutely amazing. I especially preferred it over using JAWS with my Boot Camp Windows 10. Eventually I learned about NVDA, and taught myself how to use that. I have never looked back.
As of 2024, I now rock in HP laptop running the latest builds of Windows 11 and NVDA.
As I said in my subject line, NVDA is a joy to use. With all of the different add-ons, and customization options, it's really a no-brainer why I would use this over any other screen reading software.
Kinda irrelevant but I don't hate JAWS. I love Convenient OCR and PictureSmart, I'm able to browse sites like Tumblr with PictureSmart for example. But I just feel more "at home" with NVDA, if that makes sense. I do use JAWS at work, sometimes if I'm writing (there seems to be a bug with NVDA and Word where it won't read the word count with Control + Shift + G), for reading Kindle books on my PC, and for working with Google Docs/Drive/Sheets.
NVDA is the only positive thing about Windows as a platform in my opinion, but even then there's no way I'll ever use a Microslop product as a main driver ever again. Last time I did so was in the heyday of Windows 7, and that was only because of World of Warcraft, as I was sighted back then and could do everything else on Linux. I did try Windows 10 in 2017, the accessibility experience was decent thanks to Chrome and NVDA, but the rest of the experience wasn't any better than what I already knew from my sighted days. I do have a Windows 11 license that I bought 3 years ago but ended up never actually using, and that's pretty much everything I have from Microslop at this point since they deleted my pre-Mojang legacy Minecraft account.
Apple should definitely open their accessibility infrastructure, not the old Carbon framework that I'musing in Vosh myself, but the private CoreAccessibility framework that they use in their own accessibility services. It's not hard to reverse-engineer and recreate the C bindings, but one of the disadvantages of depending on private frameworks is that Apple can change them whenever they wish without warning thus making it a constant cat and mouse chase that I don't feel like playing. I bet that other people wouldn't mind building accessibility tools for macOS to compete with Apple's if they actually published a properly designed framework.
Have you checked out Mahmood's add-on called Vision Assistant Pro? It is pretty awesome, and gives NVDA some functionality that JAWS has, such as the OCR feature.
Check it out.
Thanks Brian, that sounds pretty neat. You're the add-on wizard :)
I also don't hate Windows - dare I say that I like it, even though I don't agree with everything Microsoft does. But I also don't like everything Apple does. Idk, the whole Microsoft vs Apple thing really gets on my nerves, probably because I feel somewhat... self-conscious for no longer preferring Mac (because my experience with VoiceOver was so terrible).
Ironically, my first impressions, and early experiences with macOS X and voiceover were stellar. I first was introduced to OSX and voiceover on an older model MacBook Pro (the ones that still had optical drives), and it was actually running Mac OS X Snow Leopard. OMG, that computer was like a god! It ran so smooth, and I swear I could get so much done in so little time. Everything literally just... worked. I could do so much with it. I could read by different granularities on the web, such as character, word, etc. VO did not seem to lose focus with documents, or webpage articles. As OSX continued to be developed, more and more applications and services were added, and it still shined. I remember the messages application on Mac OS X, pre-Sierra if memory serves. Messaging and emailing back then was an absolute wonder.
OS X was good for a number of years, and then there was Catalina. That was when most, if not all, of us first met the entity known as SNR. As far as I am concerned, this was the catalyst for the downfall of VoiceOver for macOS. In fact they should have named that version, macOS Catalyst. I do not think macOS itself is terrible, but voiceover has really, really gone downhill. In more recent posts here on AppleVis, it appears that granular navigation on webpages is nye impossible these days. Let alone all the other bugs that are plaguing VO for macOS.
So yeah, I stopped using my MacBook Pro in 2024, and have been using my HP laptop for the last 2 years, as of this month. Though to be honest, before my PC laptop, I was primarily using Boot Camp Windows 10 on my MacBook Pro. I won't lie, Boot Camp windows is absolutely one of the best experiences I have ever had operating Windows OS. The only real thing I miss from macOS, is macOS Terminal. Hands-down, terminal for macOS is boss ! !
If general accessibility is the priority, NVDA is a very good screen reader, as it works well on most devices, programs, and websites.
However, if you only need to access most internet websites, I think Jaws for Windows is superior in many aspects, especially for websites with a lot of advertisements or complex menus.
Therefore, I can't really rule out either one, as I often need to switch between them.
I think the only way I personally would go back to JAWS would be if I was hired on for an IT contract where the company required me to use that particular screen reader. Lots of companies tend to go that route, although I've seen one or two that also lean toward the NVDA route. Once they understand that There is a free alternative, they are typically more than happy to accommodate. At least in my own experiences. 🙂
As a 26 years Jaws user and a heavy user of Office apps including Excel and Powerpoint, I'd really like to know more about how you chaps who have switched from Jaws to NVDA or who use a combo of them both find things. I've thought about NVDA more and more, particularly as the braille Noet Evolve (which looks an interesting product) will ship with it. I know I could put Jaws on a machine like that, but I really feel I should interact with NVDA more than I do. so how do you guys who have switched from Jaws find it? how did you make the adjustment? Is there basic training? How is it with Office - does Jaws still have the edge there?
Word with NBDA is great. There are even a couple of add-ons to make NVDA work even better with it. Sadly, I cannot speak on PowerPoint or Excel, because back when I was in college, which is the last time I used such software, I was purely macOS and the Apple iWork Suite actually worked as intended. As for Microsoft Word, there is an add-on that allows for customization such as not speaking out blank lines when reading by paragraph, a virtual window for quickly navigating objects, such as footnotes, comments, etc. There's also an add-on that allows for a virtual window that allows you to quickly select a multitude of formatting options, without ever having to deal with the ribbons.
I find the experience with Excel to be better with JAWS, but it is usable enough with NVDA. Excel - for basics, NVDA is fine but I'd still tend to lean JAWS. One thing I'm curious about with AI, like PictureSmart on JAWS, is whether AI can read/describe graphs directly from Excel. That would be pretty handy.
At one of my internships, I had NVDA on the laptop while waiting for Job Access to give me a JAWS license. Excel would constantly freeze up on the laptop - maybe it was a Dell thing, maybe it was an NVDA thing, but all I know is that JAWS worked much better on that laptop.
For formula navigation alone in excel it's worth it. Then jaws is just more verbose, supports more things, have less bugs, like the collapsable sections in powerpoint are poorly / not supported by nvda, just to name a few things.
For web navigation, I completely (but respectfully!) disagree with the OP who said that for web navigation jaws is better. Maybe it's just personal opinion and experience, but jaws is trash with the modern web while NVDA is the best screen reader on the market most of the times. Lightweight, and actually to the point. Unlike a little closed source screen reader you may have heard of but this is the wrong thread for that so... :)
You should create a new thread for ChromeVox, so you and others who are like-minded can pour your heart and soul into the love you have for that obsolete screen reader. 😛
P.S. I kid, I kid. ChromeVox was actually really good. It's too bad ChromeBooks were never more than they could have been.
For some things, I do switch back to JAWS. Sometimes, online shopping is better with JAWS. Google's office suite, Drive and Gmail tend to work better with JAWS from my experience too. Not directly web-related, but the Kindle app on PC is far more accessible with JAWS than NVDA. I'm not happy with Freedom Scientific and their business practices, but JAWS is still a good screen reader nonetheless (even though it was fighting with my Brailliant the other day, and I was using a USB-C connection...)
These are my workplace observations.
A. NVDA Fails to read tables in Microsoft Powerpoint. Given how many professional presentations are likely to have project updates and timelines presented in tabular form, it's simply unacceptable that both NVDA and Narrator fail to read tables in an accessible way. They will read them like normal text, as in without any column or row info. It also notablly lacks any audio graphing capabilities for charts and graphs in presentations or in excel.
B. NVDA has terrible support for excel. It stops speaking at times, strugles with huge sheets, and fails to navigate charts. No audio-graphing capabilities as well. Yes, there are addons, but it is not that great. NVDA also needs to figure out their deal with UIA and WinUI Accessibility APIs, the Non-UIA thing, as enabling UiA sometimes enables output of some very useful information, while taking away output of other useful information. Just take Excel tables for example.
Regardless, it's my go to screen-reader, but I have Jaws as backup. Many enterprise apps will actually only work with Jaws, SAP for example.
They do confirm the opinion I already had. Nevertheless it sounds like I should be getting to grips with NVDA in any case.
To the user who talked about AI and Excel graphs (I forget who that was, sorry) it is certainly possible in certain environments. I have the corporate version of CoPilot at work, for example, and I can simply give it the excel sheet and it will do exactly what you're after. Of course, AI is only as good as the prompt you give it, so you'd need to get that right. I imagine the richness of information CoPilot can provide in that scenario outstrips what Jaws can do. Perhaps if you have ChatGPT it can do the same. I've never tried as I'm only allowed to use the corporate CoPilot on work data and I don't tend to use spreadsheets in my personal life. even if I did, I wouldn't count on a graph put together by my graphically illiterate self! Long live Ivona brian.
I was an early adopter and tester for Copilot integration in M365. Ever remember reading: Allurt, AI generated content may be wrong, please verify content before use. That warning is not there for decoration. It often provides wrong info, and the thought of doing verification alone stears me away from it sometimes. I would rather do my research and do the correct thing first time.
Where I love copilot is with excel formulas. I hate memorizing those and don't mind prompting multiple times and experimenting to arrive at the formula I need. It gives a great starting point. Sharpening Emails and messages is also good use.
Yes, I refuse to memorise Excel formulas too :P AI is just super handy for things like that. For instance, I had to see if staff members names showed up on a separate spreadsheet. Bit of an odd process, but I created a new spreadsheet copying names from both spreadsheets and asked Chat GPT to give me a formula to create a formula to cross-check across 2 different worksheets, which it did. I did double-check it was correct before sending the spreadsheet off, but it was really handy.
I do use spreadsheets in my personal life. My D&D character sheet is a spreadsheet my bf created (I did use the Knights of the Braille character spreadsheet for a bit), and for things like budgeting. I haven't really worked with graphs since uni, though, and that was for 1 subject. So I haven't had a chance to test out whether PictureSmart can read out graphs directly from Excel.
A lot can be customized. Examples include, but are not limited to:
* A command to exit NVDA can be set to **NVDA key + F4**.
Why would you want this, you ask?
If you have been a JAWS user for 20 or 30 years, what is the first thing you will try? **JAWS commands.**
* The **Find** command can be changed to **Ctrl + F**.
* **F3** can be used for Next.
* **Shift + F3** can be used for Previous.
That is just the start.
Check out this guide. I didn’t create it. I am seriously looking at NVDA because I don’t agree with what Freedom Scientific is doing. Time will tell if they will win me back as a customer.
A few recent addons you might want to get for NVDA 26.1 and going forward:
links-management
Links Management is an opt-in NVDA add-on that improves Browse Mode navigation when Screen Layout is turned off.
When enabled, each link behaves as a separate line for Up/Down arrow navigation.
Trailing punctuation is intelligently attached to the link line to prevent blank or punctuation-only lines.
Inspired by JAWS, this add-on focuses on clarity, predictability, and navigation control.
typing-spelling-rate
This add-on lets you set a faster (or slower) speech rate specifically for:
• Typing echo (characters and words), and
• Spelling (spelling output spoken by NVDA).
These rates are independent from your normal synthesizer rate. Your main speech rate is not changed.
Why this add-on exists
Permalink: Why this add-on exists
Many users prefer a comfortable speech rate for general reading and navigation, but want a higher rate for rapid typing feedback or spelling—especially when editing text. NVDA's standard speech rate is global, so changing it affects everything. This add-on provides separate rates so you can keep your normal rate while still getting fast, crisp feedback when you type or spell.
How it works (technical note)
Permalink: How it works (technical note)
NVDA speaks using a sequence of speech commands. This add-on injects a RateCommand into the speech sequence only for the specific typing/spelling utterance. It does not change the synthesizer's global rate setting, which helps keep the behavior stable and compatible with other add-ons.
Settings
Permalink: Settings
Open NVDA Settings and locate the add-on's settings panel under the Typing & Spelling Rate panel.
Enable separate typing rate
Permalink: Enable separate typing rate
When checked, the add-on applies your configured typing rate to typing echo output. When unchecked, typing echo uses your normal synthesizer rate.
Enable separate spelling rate
Permalink: Enable separate spelling rate
When checked, the add-on applies your configured spelling rate to spelling output. When unchecked, spelling uses your normal synthesizer rate.
Typing rate
Permalink: Typing rate
Adjusts the rate used for typing echo (characters and words) when Enable separate typing rate is checked.
Also apply to typed words
Permalink: Also apply to typed words
When checked, the typing rate is applied to both typed characters and typed words. When unchecked, the typing rate is applied only to typed characters.
Spelling rate
Permalink: Spelling rate
Adjusts the rate used for spelling output when Enable separate spelling rate is checked.
Windows OneCore: Boost
Permalink: Windows OneCore: Boost
If your synthesizer is Windows OneCore, the add-on provides an extra Boost option. OneCore can behave differently at high rates, so Boost gives additional headroom without changing NVDA's global rate slider range.
• Boost range: 0–100
• Boost is only used with Windows OneCore. It has no effect with other synthesizers.
I have used NVDA since 2009 full time. JFW still holds the edge in Office. But that's about it for me. :D
Grab a copy, run in portable mode for a while. If you like it, install it and dig in. Sure it won't be perfect, and I wish we'd quit breaking addons every other version (mostly synths so it's easier to use eSpeak or oneCore anyway), but it's a snappy fast little screen reader in most cases.
This year NVDA will go full 64-bit which may offer some neat advantages.
Overall There isn't much to complain about for the pricetag.
lol. Its still me. will I probably get a mac at somepoint? Yes but NVDA can certainly be made to be very close to Jaws.
Does it take work?
Yes.
Do I think they should have a mode for those switching from jaws that a jaws user could enable?
Yes
Will that ever happen?
I'd say no.
I of course realise AI can make mistakes. I didn't make explicit reference to that in my previous post because, and call me an eternal optimist if you will, I assumed everybody else realised that too.
So here comes my next NVDA question: if you're using it with Braille, do you have to switch your brain to computer Braille for typing in web addresses and so on? That annoys me about Jaws - why everything can't just be typed in UEB like it can on the iPhone I have no idea.
I tried learning JAWS before for school, and it's alright, but then the license ran out and I had to switch to learning NVDA. I believe that no one should have to pay for a screen reader, so I was happy to find that NVDA is free. When I got my first PC of my own this past Christmas, I knew I wanted to download NVDA. Since I have no vision, I had to use Windows Narrator to download NVDA, and I HATED Windows Narrator so much! I'm glad I downloaded NVDA, because for me, it seems like anything is possible on my computer.
When it comes to AI, there will always be mixed feelings from the masses. I know this. Still, while I too complain about the way people utilize AI software, some more than others, I find myself a bit more productive when using CoPilot with MS Office. Before someone reiterates the beating of dead horses, yes I am aware AI is far from perfect. Nevertheless, I am pleased enough with my productivity with CoPilot within the confines of Office.
Regarding NVDA, I cannot stress how much I enjoy this screen reader. The insane collection of add-ons alone show how much thought goes into its functionality. Let alone the way it can be so thoroughly customized, including adding ones own Python tweaks if one is so inclined.
There are also quite a number of speech synthesizers to choose from, to add a little spice to your reading preferences.
Is it perfect? Nope, not at all. What is though? Seriously, name one single piece of perfect software.
You can't.
You will try though. Someone will. There is always, 'someone'.
Regardless, NVDA is definitely good at what it does. Flaws and shortcomings aside, it is litterally the most enjoyable screen reading experience I've had in many years.
Final note, if you enjoy JAWS' Picture Smart, you should really check out Mahmood's Vision Assistant Pro add-on for NVDA.
I get that NVDA is great. marvellous stuff. splendid. Tally Bally ho! But a few comments back I asked a question that I hoped one of the NVDA is grate brigade would answer, and I really would like to know, Mr Speaker: does one have to keep switching between computer Braille and contracted Braille when using NVDA, like one has to with Jaws? Or is it more like the iPhone where I can, if I wish, transact my business entirely in contracted Braille? To give one example, Jaws requires computer Braille for web addresses. With the iPhone, I can use UEB. Any answers on this specific point?
I’ve been thinking about getting my own laptop and downloading NVDA to use, but I also want to know what kind of laptop you think works the best with the screen reader.
Also, what kinds of add-ons would you say are the best? I’d like to know some useful ones as well.
In my experience, NVDA is more light-weight than JAWS, providing for a smoother experience on pretty much any decent, modern Windows laptop. One thing to note, though I don't have personal experience with it, is that if you get a laptop with an ARM chip, like one from the Microsoft Surface line, NVDA, being an X86 app, will need to run in emulation. In theory, this could slow the screen reader's performance or reduce the laptop's battery life, but not having a laptop with an ARM chip to test it myself, I can't speak to actual results with this setup.
Apologies, I don't use braille, so I cannot answer that particular question for you. Hopefully someone else on here will be able to help you with that. 🫤
I would advise you to get a laptop that has dedicated keys for the Home, End, Insert, Delete, Page Up, and Page Down functions, also known on legacy keyboards as "the six pack". These keys are used quite a bit in laptop mode for NVDA, so it would be good to have access to them readily on your keyboard.
Just food for thought. 🙂
You can use UEB grade2 in address bars or anywhere, yes. It's basically like iOS. If your input table is UEB grade2, it'll let you do everything in contracted UEB. I can successfully type a full web address in one go, using dots 4 5 6 before any slashes as is the UEB spec.
Use dots 1-3 chord or 4-6 chord to shift-tab or tab. You can also assign a few keys to things like control +, control alt +, etc so you can press that command and then a letter and it'll do the thing. EG: ctrl-o to open a document.
Did you add your own Gemini API key from within the add-on settings?
Also, if the default hotkey is not working, I would recommend changing it. I have changed mine to be NVDA plus Shift plus CTRL plus V, because for me that's easy. For example, if I press NVDA plus Shift plus CTRL plus V, then I press "o" by itself, I get the Screenshot OCR, sort of like the way be My Eyes works for Windows.
Fair enough. May I ask where you installed the app from? You can get it directly from the NVDA add-on store, which might be more up-to-date than if you go from the post here on AppleVis.
I have no idea why it would not work for you. You did get, "VisionAssistant Pro", from Mahmood, correct? And not, "Vision Access", from a different developer? Not trying to be funny here, they're really are two almost identical sounding add-ons, Mahmood's is called "Vision Assistant Pro" and the others is just called something like "Vision Access".
Comments
Breath of fresh air
When I swtiched from MacOS + Voiceover to Windows + NVDA mid-2021, it felt like a breath of fresh air. I was able to do everything I wanted, and play audio games, without much - if any - friction. I self-taught myself NVDA and didn't sit there crying with frustration like I did while trying to learn VoiceOver in 2019; I had only been blind for a year and a half at that point (since 2020).
NVDA is a joy to use
When I first started learning how to use a computer without eyesight, it was Windows 7, and JAWS 13 if memory serves. While I loved Windows 7, I absolutely hated JAWS. By 2014 I got my first Mac computer, a MacBook Pro. Two years later, I learned how to get Windows 10 Boot Camp onto said MacBook Pro. I had already been in college a few years by this point, and so started using windows for certain homework assignments, and OSx for other assignments. At the time, I thought Mac OS X was absolutely amazing. I especially preferred it over using JAWS with my Boot Camp Windows 10. Eventually I learned about NVDA, and taught myself how to use that. I have never looked back.
As of 2024, I now rock in HP laptop running the latest builds of Windows 11 and NVDA.
As I said in my subject line, NVDA is a joy to use. With all of the different add-ons, and customization options, it's really a no-brainer why I would use this over any other screen reading software.
NVDA is the GSROAT
Jaws unfortunately has its usefulness still in some edge case office apps, but as a dev, I couldn't do anything with jaws, only nvda.
Just for the record
Kinda irrelevant but I don't hate JAWS. I love Convenient OCR and PictureSmart, I'm able to browse sites like Tumblr with PictureSmart for example. But I just feel more "at home" with NVDA, if that makes sense. I do use JAWS at work, sometimes if I'm writing (there seems to be a bug with NVDA and Word where it won't read the word count with Control + Shift + G), for reading Kindle books on my PC, and for working with Google Docs/Drive/Sheets.
Only positive thing about Windows
NVDA is the only positive thing about Windows as a platform in my opinion, but even then there's no way I'll ever use a Microslop product as a main driver ever again. Last time I did so was in the heyday of Windows 7, and that was only because of World of Warcraft, as I was sighted back then and could do everything else on Linux. I did try Windows 10 in 2017, the accessibility experience was decent thanks to Chrome and NVDA, but the rest of the experience wasn't any better than what I already knew from my sighted days. I do have a Windows 11 license that I bought 3 years ago but ended up never actually using, and that's pretty much everything I have from Microslop at this point since they deleted my pre-Mojang legacy Minecraft account.
Apple should definitely open their accessibility infrastructure, not the old Carbon framework that I'musing in Vosh myself, but the private CoreAccessibility framework that they use in their own accessibility services. It's not hard to reverse-engineer and recreate the C bindings, but one of the disadvantages of depending on private frameworks is that Apple can change them whenever they wish without warning thus making it a constant cat and mouse chase that I don't feel like playing. I bet that other people wouldn't mind building accessibility tools for macOS to compete with Apple's if they actually published a properly designed framework.
Chamomile
Have you checked out Mahmood's add-on called Vision Assistant Pro? It is pretty awesome, and gives NVDA some functionality that JAWS has, such as the OCR feature.
Check it out.
https://applevis.com/forum/windows/new-add-vision-assistant-pro-your-interactive-ai-copilot-nvda-powered-gemini
Brian
Thanks Brian, that sounds pretty neat. You're the add-on wizard :)
I also don't hate Windows - dare I say that I like it, even though I don't agree with everything Microsoft does. But I also don't like everything Apple does. Idk, the whole Microsoft vs Apple thing really gets on my nerves, probably because I feel somewhat... self-conscious for no longer preferring Mac (because my experience with VoiceOver was so terrible).
Experiences
Ironically, my first impressions, and early experiences with macOS X and voiceover were stellar. I first was introduced to OSX and voiceover on an older model MacBook Pro (the ones that still had optical drives), and it was actually running Mac OS X Snow Leopard. OMG, that computer was like a god! It ran so smooth, and I swear I could get so much done in so little time. Everything literally just... worked. I could do so much with it. I could read by different granularities on the web, such as character, word, etc. VO did not seem to lose focus with documents, or webpage articles. As OSX continued to be developed, more and more applications and services were added, and it still shined. I remember the messages application on Mac OS X, pre-Sierra if memory serves. Messaging and emailing back then was an absolute wonder.
OS X was good for a number of years, and then there was Catalina. That was when most, if not all, of us first met the entity known as SNR. As far as I am concerned, this was the catalyst for the downfall of VoiceOver for macOS. In fact they should have named that version, macOS Catalyst. I do not think macOS itself is terrible, but voiceover has really, really gone downhill. In more recent posts here on AppleVis, it appears that granular navigation on webpages is nye impossible these days. Let alone all the other bugs that are plaguing VO for macOS.
So yeah, I stopped using my MacBook Pro in 2024, and have been using my HP laptop for the last 2 years, as of this month. Though to be honest, before my PC laptop, I was primarily using Boot Camp Windows 10 on my MacBook Pro. I won't lie, Boot Camp windows is absolutely one of the best experiences I have ever had operating Windows OS. The only real thing I miss from macOS, is macOS Terminal. Hands-down, terminal for macOS is boss ! !
NVDA VS. Jaws
If general accessibility is the priority, NVDA is a very good screen reader, as it works well on most devices, programs, and websites.
However, if you only need to access most internet websites, I think Jaws for Windows is superior in many aspects, especially for websites with a lot of advertisements or complex menus.
Therefore, I can't really rule out either one, as I often need to switch between them.
Re: NVDA VS. Jaws
I think the only way I personally would go back to JAWS would be if I was hired on for an IT contract where the company required me to use that particular screen reader. Lots of companies tend to go that route, although I've seen one or two that also lean toward the NVDA route. Once they understand that There is a free alternative, they are typically more than happy to accommodate. At least in my own experiences. 🙂
An aspect I'd like to hear more about
As a 26 years Jaws user and a heavy user of Office apps including Excel and Powerpoint, I'd really like to know more about how you chaps who have switched from Jaws to NVDA or who use a combo of them both find things. I've thought about NVDA more and more, particularly as the braille Noet Evolve (which looks an interesting product) will ship with it. I know I could put Jaws on a machine like that, but I really feel I should interact with NVDA more than I do. so how do you guys who have switched from Jaws find it? how did you make the adjustment? Is there basic training? How is it with Office - does Jaws still have the edge there?
NVDA & Office
Hi bingo,
Word with NBDA is great. There are even a couple of add-ons to make NVDA work even better with it. Sadly, I cannot speak on PowerPoint or Excel, because back when I was in college, which is the last time I used such software, I was purely macOS and the Apple iWork Suite actually worked as intended. As for Microsoft Word, there is an add-on that allows for customization such as not speaking out blank lines when reading by paragraph, a virtual window for quickly navigating objects, such as footnotes, comments, etc. There's also an add-on that allows for a virtual window that allows you to quickly select a multitude of formatting options, without ever having to deal with the ribbons.
HTH. 🙂
PowerPoint and Excel
I find the experience with Excel to be better with JAWS, but it is usable enough with NVDA. Excel - for basics, NVDA is fine but I'd still tend to lean JAWS. One thing I'm curious about with AI, like PictureSmart on JAWS, is whether AI can read/describe graphs directly from Excel. That would be pretty handy.
At one of my internships, I had NVDA on the laptop while waiting for Job Access to give me a JAWS license. Excel would constantly freeze up on the laptop - maybe it was a Dell thing, maybe it was an NVDA thing, but all I know is that JAWS worked much better on that laptop.
Yes, jaws is better with office suite
For formula navigation alone in excel it's worth it. Then jaws is just more verbose, supports more things, have less bugs, like the collapsable sections in powerpoint are poorly / not supported by nvda, just to name a few things.
For web navigation, I completely (but respectfully!) disagree with the OP who said that for web navigation jaws is better. Maybe it's just personal opinion and experience, but jaws is trash with the modern web while NVDA is the best screen reader on the market most of the times. Lightweight, and actually to the point. Unlike a little closed source screen reader you may have heard of but this is the wrong thread for that so... :)
@TheBlindGuy07
You should create a new thread for ChromeVox, so you and others who are like-minded can pour your heart and soul into the love you have for that obsolete screen reader. 😛
P.S. I kid, I kid. ChromeVox was actually really good. It's too bad ChromeBooks were never more than they could have been.
JAWS/NVDA web navigation
For some things, I do switch back to JAWS. Sometimes, online shopping is better with JAWS. Google's office suite, Drive and Gmail tend to work better with JAWS from my experience too. Not directly web-related, but the Kindle app on PC is far more accessible with JAWS than NVDA. I'm not happy with Freedom Scientific and their business practices, but JAWS is still a good screen reader nonetheless (even though it was fighting with my Brailliant the other day, and I was using a USB-C connection...)
Some major shortfalls of NVDA
These are my workplace observations.
A. NVDA Fails to read tables in Microsoft Powerpoint. Given how many professional presentations are likely to have project updates and timelines presented in tabular form, it's simply unacceptable that both NVDA and Narrator fail to read tables in an accessible way. They will read them like normal text, as in without any column or row info. It also notablly lacks any audio graphing capabilities for charts and graphs in presentations or in excel.
B. NVDA has terrible support for excel. It stops speaking at times, strugles with huge sheets, and fails to navigate charts. No audio-graphing capabilities as well. Yes, there are addons, but it is not that great. NVDA also needs to figure out their deal with UIA and WinUI Accessibility APIs, the Non-UIA thing, as enabling UiA sometimes enables output of some very useful information, while taking away output of other useful information. Just take Excel tables for example.
Regardless, it's my go to screen-reader, but I have Jaws as backup. Many enterprise apps will actually only work with Jaws, SAP for example.
thanks for these observations on Office
They do confirm the opinion I already had. Nevertheless it sounds like I should be getting to grips with NVDA in any case.
To the user who talked about AI and Excel graphs (I forget who that was, sorry) it is certainly possible in certain environments. I have the corporate version of CoPilot at work, for example, and I can simply give it the excel sheet and it will do exactly what you're after. Of course, AI is only as good as the prompt you give it, so you'd need to get that right. I imagine the richness of information CoPilot can provide in that scenario outstrips what Jaws can do. Perhaps if you have ChatGPT it can do the same. I've never tried as I'm only allowed to use the corporate CoPilot on work data and I don't tend to use spreadsheets in my personal life. even if I did, I wouldn't count on a graph put together by my graphically illiterate self! Long live Ivona brian.
@SeasonKing
This is copy paste the exact reasons why I use jaws as a fallback for these exact circumstances in college!
11/10 to you.
@Bingo Little
I was an early adopter and tester for Copilot integration in M365. Ever remember reading: Allurt, AI generated content may be wrong, please verify content before use. That warning is not there for decoration. It often provides wrong info, and the thought of doing verification alone stears me away from it sometimes. I would rather do my research and do the correct thing first time.
Where I love copilot is with excel formulas. I hate memorizing those and don't mind prompting multiple times and experimenting to arrive at the formula I need. It gives a great starting point. Sharpening Emails and messages is also good use.
Excel
Yes, I refuse to memorise Excel formulas too :P AI is just super handy for things like that. For instance, I had to see if staff members names showed up on a separate spreadsheet. Bit of an odd process, but I created a new spreadsheet copying names from both spreadsheets and asked Chat GPT to give me a formula to create a formula to cross-check across 2 different worksheets, which it did. I did double-check it was correct before sending the spreadsheet off, but it was really handy.
I do use spreadsheets in my personal life. My D&D character sheet is a spreadsheet my bf created (I did use the Knights of the Braille character spreadsheet for a bit), and for things like budgeting. I haven't really worked with graphs since uni, though, and that was for 1 subject. So I haven't had a chance to test out whether PictureSmart can read out graphs directly from Excel.
if you are considering switching from Jaws to NVDA
A lot can be customized. Examples include, but are not limited to:
* A command to exit NVDA can be set to **NVDA key + F4**.
Why would you want this, you ask?
If you have been a JAWS user for 20 or 30 years, what is the first thing you will try? **JAWS commands.**
* The **Find** command can be changed to **Ctrl + F**.
* **F3** can be used for Next.
* **Shift + F3** can be used for Previous.
That is just the start.
Check out this guide. I didn’t create it. I am seriously looking at NVDA because I don’t agree with what Freedom Scientific is doing. Time will tell if they will win me back as a customer.
A few recent addons you might want to get for NVDA 26.1 and going forward:
links-management
Links Management is an opt-in NVDA add-on that improves Browse Mode navigation when Screen Layout is turned off.
When enabled, each link behaves as a separate line for Up/Down arrow navigation.
Trailing punctuation is intelligently attached to the link line to prevent blank or punctuation-only lines.
Inspired by JAWS, this add-on focuses on clarity, predictability, and navigation control.
typing-spelling-rate
This add-on lets you set a faster (or slower) speech rate specifically for:
• Typing echo (characters and words), and
• Spelling (spelling output spoken by NVDA).
These rates are independent from your normal synthesizer rate. Your main speech rate is not changed.
Why this add-on exists
Permalink: Why this add-on exists
Many users prefer a comfortable speech rate for general reading and navigation, but want a higher rate for rapid typing feedback or spelling—especially when editing text. NVDA's standard speech rate is global, so changing it affects everything. This add-on provides separate rates so you can keep your normal rate while still getting fast, crisp feedback when you type or spell.
How it works (technical note)
Permalink: How it works (technical note)
NVDA speaks using a sequence of speech commands. This add-on injects a RateCommand into the speech sequence only for the specific typing/spelling utterance. It does not change the synthesizer's global rate setting, which helps keep the behavior stable and compatible with other add-ons.
Settings
Permalink: Settings
Open NVDA Settings and locate the add-on's settings panel under the Typing & Spelling Rate panel.
Enable separate typing rate
Permalink: Enable separate typing rate
When checked, the add-on applies your configured typing rate to typing echo output. When unchecked, typing echo uses your normal synthesizer rate.
Enable separate spelling rate
Permalink: Enable separate spelling rate
When checked, the add-on applies your configured spelling rate to spelling output. When unchecked, spelling uses your normal synthesizer rate.
Typing rate
Permalink: Typing rate
Adjusts the rate used for typing echo (characters and words) when Enable separate typing rate is checked.
Also apply to typed words
Permalink: Also apply to typed words
When checked, the typing rate is applied to both typed characters and typed words. When unchecked, the typing rate is applied only to typed characters.
Spelling rate
Permalink: Spelling rate
Adjusts the rate used for spelling output when Enable separate spelling rate is checked.
Windows OneCore: Boost
Permalink: Windows OneCore: Boost
If your synthesizer is Windows OneCore, the add-on provides an extra Boost option. OneCore can behave differently at high rates, so Boost gives additional headroom without changing NVDA's global rate slider range.
• Boost range: 0–100
• Boost is only used with Windows OneCore. It has no effect with other synthesizers.
Link to guide:
https://blindaccessjournal.com/2026/02/one-week-with-nvda-a-jaws-users-immersion-journey/
NVDA is great, generally.
I have used NVDA since 2009 full time. JFW still holds the edge in Office. But that's about it for me. :D
Grab a copy, run in portable mode for a while. If you like it, install it and dig in. Sure it won't be perfect, and I wish we'd quit breaking addons every other version (mostly synths so it's easier to use eSpeak or oneCore anyway), but it's a snappy fast little screen reader in most cases.
This year NVDA will go full 64-bit which may offer some neat advantages.
Overall There isn't much to complain about for the pricetag.
@Dennis
Who are you, and what have you done with Dennis Long ??? 😨
lol
lol. Its still me. will I probably get a mac at somepoint? Yes but NVDA can certainly be made to be very close to Jaws.
Does it take work?
Yes.
Do I think they should have a mode for those switching from jaws that a jaws user could enable?
Yes
Will that ever happen?
I'd say no.
@season King
I of course realise AI can make mistakes. I didn't make explicit reference to that in my previous post because, and call me an eternal optimist if you will, I assumed everybody else realised that too.
So here comes my next NVDA question: if you're using it with Braille, do you have to switch your brain to computer Braille for typing in web addresses and so on? That annoys me about Jaws - why everything can't just be typed in UEB like it can on the iPhone I have no idea.
NVDA is great
I tried learning JAWS before for school, and it's alright, but then the license ran out and I had to switch to learning NVDA. I believe that no one should have to pay for a screen reader, so I was happy to find that NVDA is free. When I got my first PC of my own this past Christmas, I knew I wanted to download NVDA. Since I have no vision, I had to use Windows Narrator to download NVDA, and I HATED Windows Narrator so much! I'm glad I downloaded NVDA, because for me, it seems like anything is possible on my computer.
AI, Office, and NVDA
When it comes to AI, there will always be mixed feelings from the masses. I know this. Still, while I too complain about the way people utilize AI software, some more than others, I find myself a bit more productive when using CoPilot with MS Office. Before someone reiterates the beating of dead horses, yes I am aware AI is far from perfect. Nevertheless, I am pleased enough with my productivity with CoPilot within the confines of Office.
Regarding NVDA, I cannot stress how much I enjoy this screen reader. The insane collection of add-ons alone show how much thought goes into its functionality. Let alone the way it can be so thoroughly customized, including adding ones own Python tweaks if one is so inclined. There are also quite a number of speech synthesizers to choose from, to add a little spice to your reading preferences.
Is it perfect? Nope, not at all. What is though? Seriously, name one single piece of perfect software. You can't. You will try though. Someone will. There is always, 'someone'.
Regardless, NVDA is definitely good at what it does. Flaws and shortcomings aside, it is litterally the most enjoyable screen reading experience I've had in many years.
Final note, if you enjoy JAWS' Picture Smart, you should really check out Mahmood's Vision Assistant Pro add-on for NVDA.
But what about my braille question?
I get that NVDA is great. marvellous stuff. splendid. Tally Bally ho! But a few comments back I asked a question that I hoped one of the NVDA is grate brigade would answer, and I really would like to know, Mr Speaker: does one have to keep switching between computer Braille and contracted Braille when using NVDA, like one has to with Jaws? Or is it more like the iPhone where I can, if I wish, transact my business entirely in contracted Braille? To give one example, Jaws requires computer Braille for web addresses. With the iPhone, I can use UEB. Any answers on this specific point?
Best Laptop for NVDA
I’ve been thinking about getting my own laptop and downloading NVDA to use, but I also want to know what kind of laptop you think works the best with the screen reader.
Also, what kinds of add-ons would you say are the best? I’d like to know some useful ones as well.
Thanks!
Pretty much any modern Windows laptop
In my experience, NVDA is more light-weight than JAWS, providing for a smoother experience on pretty much any decent, modern Windows laptop. One thing to note, though I don't have personal experience with it, is that if you get a laptop with an ARM chip, like one from the Microsoft Surface line, NVDA, being an X86 app, will need to run in emulation. In theory, this could slow the screen reader's performance or reduce the laptop's battery life, but not having a laptop with an ARM chip to test it myself, I can't speak to actual results with this setup.
HTH
@Bingo
Apologies, I don't use braille, so I cannot answer that particular question for you. Hopefully someone else on here will be able to help you with that. 🫤
@Jasmine Matthews
I would advise you to get a laptop that has dedicated keys for the Home, End, Insert, Delete, Page Up, and Page Down functions, also known on legacy keyboards as "the six pack". These keys are used quite a bit in laptop mode for NVDA, so it would be good to have access to them readily on your keyboard.
Just food for thought. 🙂
could not get vision assistant pro to work
It wouldn't work. More over I filled out issues and got no response.
Nvda and Braille
You can use UEB grade2 in address bars or anywhere, yes. It's basically like iOS. If your input table is UEB grade2, it'll let you do everything in contracted UEB. I can successfully type a full web address in one go, using dots 4 5 6 before any slashes as is the UEB spec.
Use dots 1-3 chord or 4-6 chord to shift-tab or tab. You can also assign a few keys to things like control +, control alt +, etc so you can press that command and then a letter and it'll do the thing. EG: ctrl-o to open a document.
Hth
Re: could not get vision assistant pro to work
Did you add your own Gemini API key from within the add-on settings?
Also, if the default hotkey is not working, I would recommend changing it. I have changed mine to be NVDA plus Shift plus CTRL plus V, because for me that's easy. For example, if I press NVDA plus Shift plus CTRL plus V, then I press "o" by itself, I get the Screenshot OCR, sort of like the way be My Eyes works for Windows.
HTH.
I did add my own key
I did add my key. It said some library was missing when I went to ocr a pdf.
Dennis
Fair enough. May I ask where you installed the app from? You can get it directly from the NVDA add-on store, which might be more up-to-date than if you go from the post here on AppleVis.
I got it from the addon store
I got it from the addon store.
Strange
I have no idea why it would not work for you. You did get, "VisionAssistant Pro", from Mahmood, correct? And not, "Vision Access", from a different developer? Not trying to be funny here, they're really are two almost identical sounding add-ons, Mahmood's is called "Vision Assistant Pro" and the others is just called something like "Vision Access".
HTH.
Download link
Just in case.
https://github.com/mahmoodhozhabri/VisionAssistantPro/releases/download/v4.6/VisionAssistant-4.6.nvda-addon