Thoughts on the upcoming braille sense 7

the average person can't afford this technology; a sighted person wouldn't pay over £3000 when ipads cost £599 sorry, but true. they are ripping us off.

I was hoping they'd have went away from Android and did a windows or linux device like the rest of the industry. Would make it way more useful. And honestly why don't they update the 6 to android 14 or 15? It can run it. But meh. They really should've made it an arm headless laptop like the new BrailleNote or Blazie BT Braille. Honestly I hate that I'm saying this but if I was to buy a new notetaker I'd get the BrailleNote evolve sense it's built on windows and will be far more capable. One thing that would've made the android devices especially the mini BrailleSense way more useful is to have cellular ability so you could use it as a phone. But meh.

this device, like most braille devices is so pointless, the only one i would ever consider using is an orbit reader, the breef time i had my orbit reader 20 it worked well till it just stopped charging one day, it was so easy to pair and just go, no messing around in confusing menus just to get it paired like the mantis or other braille displays

Dude, the orbit was good in its simplicity, but for long reading, doing presentations and such, the refresh rate slowed me down and made it harder to concentrate instead of easier, and after about 30 minutes of reading, my fingers couldn't take any more of those dots. Way to firm for my liking, and for what I mostly use Braille for, show notes for an online radio show, the Orbit was just too loud. Now, I have both a Focus 40 (as part of my ElBraille) and one of the NLS e-readers. That tiny nls e-reader is awesome. I don't really need much more than that. The ElBraille is underpowered for today's computers, but for just browsing, documents, the occasional radio work, it works pretty well. I think I would enjoy a play with some of the newer stuff coming out, just to see how they implement stuff, but can't say I really need it. Between my phone and laptop, plus stuff like the meta glasses, I'm pretty set. Plus like others have already said, these devices are way too expensive for most people to ever afford on their own. I would have never gotten the ElBraille had I not known someone who had it sitting around, didn't care for it, didn't use it, and was able to make a trade for it. Otherwise, nope.

The only thing I can add is that the book sense reader is very nice!

I'm not that stoked. Just another notetaker that will go unnoticed. People really gotta start making this s**t cheaper if they want the average blind braille reader to care. And I buy my own phones directly, no contracted pay as I go nonsense where I'm locked into something. The fact notetakers are still being developed at all is staggering, especially at current prices. Would rather have a dumb braille display that interfaces with anything and go from there.
Basically, if prices were not ridiculous I might give habbf a thought to buying one. Otherwise, nah. Would rather go on a swanky vacation or buy a custom guitar, something that'll outlast me.

Notetakers should really be called an agency industry. Nobody else can take them seriously. Most people, I should say. There's always someone who can drop 5 g's on something and not feel the burn.

But small size note taker (in terms of software).
Humanware BI 40x is the best braille display I've ever had from both a material but also software POV. It does just enough things but not ever pretend to replace x or y, just to be a standalone complementary device when needed. I am at my 5th year in college and would have loved to have this earlier.
IMO the focus 5 from vispero is too limitted plus I don't like the focus (coming from a 4th).
When you do presentation, the worse thing that can happen is bluetooth randomly disconnecting... During said presentation. A minimum note taker is good.
In terms of software orbit do the best, their update files are less than 1mb, it's actually good craft low level code that's rarer nowadays. A friend of mine was able to load a 15-20m characters integral pure .txt file in the orbit in seconds and it was able to go to the beginning / end without any delay. While the stream 3 from hw is a downgrade over the stream 2 it can't even load a 1m file while the vrstream2 was able to load a 6m without issues.

I had a BrailleSense 6 and traded it for a brailliant BI-40-X. The BrailleSense 6 always lagged no matter what I did. This was when using the word processor, a custom app made by Selvas. It also lagged in every single edit field I typed in, to the point where it was basically unusable for serious work.
On speaking to my distributer, Sight and Sound, I was told if I wanted someone to look at it it would have to be sent to Korea . With due understanding, I sent it off. Eight weeks later, on receiving the device again, nothing what so ever had changed. I was told to keep the device updated. When the software version 3.0 came out, I updated. This time, surely, the bug had been fixed. Others online had been talking about this, it wasn't just me. The bug had not, in fact been fixed. It was as laggy as ever.
I had payed around £4000 for the privilege of having a device that was not fit for purpose and any time I wanted to get it looked at or repaired in any way, I would be waiting for weeks before I got it back.
Ever since I've switched to using the Brailliant, I've not looked back. A braille display and laptop / phone / iPad / whatever is for me a far more flexible combination. It's also nice knowing that humanware actually fix bugs and are, in my experience, very responsive to feedback. They also have offices and repair centres across continents rather than insisting devices are sent to Korea no matter what the problem is.

I think the BrailleNote Evolve is a significantly better deal. They seem to be around the same price with the BrailleSense being more expensive. First, if you want to do something beyond the BrailleSense-specific applications, you can use Android apps, but on the Evolve you can use Windows programs. In the situations notetakers are often used, in school or work, for creating and working with documents, email, web applications, etc, Windows programs seem better than Android apps. For example, Microsoft Word is very accessible and efficient to use, while Google Docs or Word on Android are harder to use and less accessible for complex documents. Also, a lot of complex web applications probably work better on Windows than Android. Regarding the built-in applications, the BrailleSense 7 comes with custom applications written by Selvas, while the Evolve uses mostly standard Microsoft applications with add-ons written by HumanWare to make them easier to use. I think if you are creating or editing advanced documents with a lot of formatting, Microsoft Word is more likely to support what you need than the Selvas word processor, and the Selvas email program will be less responsive to breaking changes, such as the change to Gmail authentication that broke Gmail on the BrailleNote Touch for a while, than Outlook would be. I am not sure the BrailleSense 7 supports creating PowerPoint presentations at all with the custom Selvas software, and if not Microsoft PowerPoint on the Evolve would be much easier to use than Google Slides or PowerPoint on the BrailleSense 7. In addition, in five years or more if both devices stop being updated, at least on the Evolve you can install Linux or just keep using Windows 11 since usually software continues supporting old Windows for a while, while the BrailleSense 7 would probably become very slow and support much less software.

I have the SensePlayer and I really like it, so Android is not always bad for assistive technology devices, but I think for a device that is supposed to act as your main computer, Windows or Linux is much better. I think I would also choose the BT Braille over the BrailleSense 7, because if the Blazie software does not do what you need, you can use a Linux GUI program, a web app, or even the command line, and an Android device is much less flexible. You can also write your own software for the BT Braille and they encourage it, while Selvas will probably not publish their SDK allowing direct Braille, speech, and keyboard access, meaning the software you write for it will be limited to the interface their Android screen reader provides. The BT Braille also has many of the same benefits over the BrailleSense 7 as the Evolve, like it will run web apps better, and LibreOffice is better than Google Docs on Android although not as good as Microsoft Office on Windows.

Sad to hear! I always thought the sense player was a much better deal than vrstream 3, same for their displays.

I honestly think lebra office is way easier than word and at least it doesn't require a subscription to use a damn word processor. I know I'm preaching to the choir at this point but subscriptions have gone out of control! Code factory must have been high when they decided to charge a subscription for the new eloquence release for android. Like bro why the fuck do you expect us to pay a subscription for a synth that hasn't changed sense 2002? That's asinine and they know it. But hey greedy company gotta get their money somehow. And on that note Blazie cash grabs too. They want to charge 50 bucks for every major update. Like dude this isn't 2005 anymore most people expect operating system updates to be free especially on linux lol

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Do we know when this device is releasing?

also, what if i was to obtain a new career, and here in the UK i said okay, let's apply to the Access To Work scheme; how would they even consider this purchase? if it's being used, as a braille display why would they purchase it for a work purpose?
What i mean is, the social functions are for outside of work, surely? so how are people getting these devices i assume, the BrailleSense lineup still aimed at the education market? wouldn't a government-funded body just state oh, you can have a braille display that does nothing else?

Exactly! I have a 4th gen Focus 40 blue, but don't have a Windows laptop to use it with and JAWS, which it's kind of made for that. But if I just want a display to primarily use with my iPhone, I could just get another NLS EReader.

My Focus 40 could probably use being sent to FS for service, but I have no idea how much that would cost me, and not sure if I could get repairing it funded.

I've said it before, how many times have they tried this build a blindness dedicated computer on top of a mainstream OS? It rarely works because they get outdated so quickly. I do think the all-in-one devices still have a place (same argument for why the iMac still exists). But I can see why a lot of people like the idea of a dumb display paired with a PC/Mac/mobile device. But these tablets/laptops with a built in display are always so crazy expensive! And who's going to pay when someone wants to upgrade?

It'll be interesting if we get any new info soon about the BNE or Optima.

You guys are lucky to have so many options in europe, here in canada in quebec the only things that are fully funded as far as I know are the focus 5 which is 14 40 or 80 cells and the bi 40x which is 20 or 40 cells.

I want a 24 or 32 cells so bad, the 14 is too expensive for too little content, the 20x from hw is honestly very good though I have the 40 because I am a student, but I could see myself paying for a 20-24 cells. But 32 seems to be the perfect sweet spot for average book reading. As now nowadays with CELA we can access the bookshare collection but not veia the official site with an account there, so it means that we can't customize the brf to fit the display. I have asked CELA and they basically said sorry. Very stupid, but tldr reading any brf from bookshare --> cela on a 40 cell is painful at best. A regular braille page will have about 28-30 characters at max anyway.

I thnk it is still very expensive isn't it?
looking for a afordable one

The device has 256 GB storage and 8 GB RAM, along with what appears to be a faster octa-core CPU running at 3.3 GHz. I was expecting better hardware updates, but it is what it is. It's interesting that Humanware is making a significantly better product. They've clearly learned their lessons from the disasters that were their Android products.
Unfortunately, I don't think the Evolve has a removable battery. I wonder what that's going to mean in 2027 in the EU? Then again, maybe they can get away with it since they're such a small company?

I was distressed to hear the new BrailleSense will have a PMA. I assume this means product maintenance agreement, which means paying for updates. Even if I was considering a product like this, that right there would turn me away.

I remember when I started work going through Access to work over here, but what they didn’t tell you was that companies have to pay out for the products before applying to get the money back. Which begs the question unless you are working for a company which was making loads of money, especially in the financially conscious time we live in, why would one pay out for something like this when you could just get a laptop and a display?
One thing that put me off as well is how quickly out of date these become, which couldn’t theory mean you wouldn’t be allowed to use them in work anyway as they could be a security risk. I love the idea though, but the human wear version looks a lot more exciting than this, which is quite a change from the days where hymns were in my opinion kicking their butt before. :)

any audio demo and review...

well,
I hope it can be more afordable

the loud cells refreshing was the only complaint i had about my orbit reader 20

I wonder if the Orbit Flow 40, announced at the recently concluded CSUN conference, is the answer we are looking for—just a dumb display instead of those very expensive, bloated, all-in-one braille computers with specs comparable to a mid-range PC/tablet/smartphone that's just a fraction of the price of these braille notetakers. Here is the product page for the same.

Upon looking at the product page one thing stands out, and I also had an instant question come up.
First the question. What in the world are piezo cells? Is that just their fancy name for the same tech they've been using in stuff like the Orbit 20, or is that something different?
And second, it mentions USB C, but no bluetooth. I'm not touching something that won't work wirelessly in 2026. Nope, hard pass.

Interesting. Yes I think from time to time discussion of doing the opposite comes up: just making something simple so it doesn't go out of date so fast. This looks to be the equivalent of a monitor. It reminds me of the PacMate display when you detached it from the PacMate notetaker. I think Help Tech (formerly Handy Tech) has or at least had a similarly designed display concept.
@Justin Piezo is the traditional technology for most Braille displays, that relies on electrical current, etc. I am not an expert on it. It is not the Orbit technology cells which are mechanical and slower to refresh and noisier. And in my experience Orbit cells are a bit less inconsistent, e.g., sometimes dots will stick up or down more often. It reminds me a lot of Braille displays in the 19990s. To Orbit's credit, their technology is cheaper to produce and allows them to sell lower cost displays. And for many it is a good alternative. I prefer pizeo cells given a choice. I am assuming Orbit is using a third party's cells such as HumanWare or Hims, etc.
As for USB only, that is interesting. No battery, no Bluetooth chipset would allow the cost to remain lower and increases reliability. It seems it'd make it more of a desktop display.
I hope they're able to get it to market. Competition is good.

A very reliable source told me that they don't have the ability / capacity, they've always outsourced it to a Japanese company KGS?... Only baum were making their own cells, and a company in germany... Freedom Scientific still make their own though.
But yes hw's are very good cells.

If I was in the market for another Braille display, I'd go for one of the Orbit devices using their cheaper cells. I like the idea of a display without a battery. Batteries are the first components to go bad, and considering how proprietary and expensive these products are, I don't want to have a crippled product in a few years due to a bad battery and be unable to replace it either because the components are too expensive, or far worse, aren't being manufactured anymore.
None of these modern Braille devices interest me, especially the BrailleSense 7. You'd think they'd learned their lesson by now and stopped using outdated Android versions, but here we are.

These threads always bring out everyone who says these notetakers aren't for them and you should just get a Braille display and pair it with your computer or smartphone.

I am in that group myself, I posted a list in another thread about how many times this dedicated notetaker on top of a mainstream platform has been tried. In a way I'm surprised how many times it has been done and continues to be.

But maybe that's because, for some people, it actually works well. I've never used a BS myself, though I've seen some of the older ones at conventions. Obviously Selvas sees a market for it or they wouldn't keep putting out new ones. Maybe for some people there's a value in a hybrid of custom apps but also being able to install Android apps from the Play store, though I've read that the interface for those is different since you're then using an Android screen reader.

It's interesting to see the different philosophies of Selvas and HW. It's interesting to go back and read the press release and hear presentations from when the BrailleNote Touch came out, and how the Evolve kind of seems like them tasidly admitting that they bet on the wrong horse with Android.

As for displays, I agree that the Orbit Flow sounds like the well-made dumb display that many have been clammering for, at least to use at a desk with a PC or Mac.

My dream notetaker-like device, at least on paper, would be an iPad case with a Braille display on the bottom (landscape) edge. It would connect through the iPad smart connector like the Magic Keyboards do, and it would be designed to control VO primarily via BSI.

if hims and or selvas were / are the same thing / brand just renamed? Or completely separate entities? I think double tap did a podcast on that a long time ago but find it still very confusing.

Yes, HIMS changed their name to Selvas, although I've still heard the old name used in some places. I think they changed it because another unrelated company stole their name. I thought that's what trademarks are supposed to prevent but maybe they didn't have one.

Yet we have AI. Same story. :)

I have a braillesense 6 and it was the stupidest and most reckless purchase I have ever made.
The problem is that you don't make much use of the Android operating system, because the screen reader isn't immediate. And then the battery runs out in 2 days even if I don't have the wifi turned on, do you know how long does an iPad last?
I'm sorry because I loved the braillesense plus32, a gem, but now they've only changed the operating system, but I understand that next time I'll get a braille display with very few functions, just an editor, and I'll do the rest via Bluetooth.

Is there a recording for today's webinar?