Announcing an Update to AppleVis' Policy on Profanity in User Content

I think this is a good decision. We have people have a lot of different ages that use this website so I like to keep it welcoming to everybody. I think this is a good decision. I think you guys are doing amazing. Keeping up with everything with this website. I’m really happy that we still have it.

But there are problems, such as, exactly what words fall within and outside your definitions, such as your definition of profanity? Or the ultimate conclusion concerning the speaker‘s intent. For example, the term “Doodoo head” could be a term of friendly endearment, or it could be a put down. On the other hand, “stupid Doodoo head“ move further towards an intent, which is not friendly or endearing.

And then there is context or circumstantial attenuation of circumstances or whatever you want to call it. For example, I might address Brian as a stupid Doodoo head, but my use of these words simply means that I like Brian. On the other hand, I could address X (whose name shall remain anonymous/unknown), and intend something entirely different. How is Apple is to judge such things?

I'd really appreciate more clarity on this. I think saying: "at the discretion of the editorial team", is quite wooly and unhelpful I'm afraid.
As an example, the word"bloody", in my part of the world, the UK, is quite a standard word. It's not profanity and it's quite mild and well used. However, I had a post I wrote recommended to change the word.
Another example is using "hell", to some that is not a problem at all, to others, it is. I therefore think we need more clear guidelines as to what we are and are not allowed to say.
We can obviously all agree that certain words should not be said, but how about the words like "bloody" and "hell", which are more in that grey area.
This is just my ramblings. I think the editorial and mod teams do an amazing job and I'm sure all of us would echo that sentiment. In this case though, more solid guidelines would be appreciated.

a case by Case evaluation is exactly that. every f…ing case will be evaluated individually. 😊
Can’t get more clear than that in my humble opinion. Just dip your tongue in your brain before speaking and all will be good.

Do people really need clarification on what is acceptable and what is not, when all that is required is a little tact.

With respect, this is exactly the issue being raised.

“Case by case” may be clear from a moderation perspective, but it isn’t clear from a user perspective — especially in an international community where everyday language differs.

Also, you’ve just used “f…ing” in a thread about acceptable language. If that’s fine, then the boundary clearly isn’t as obvious as you’re suggesting. "F...ing", is rather strong and it's not like we don't all know what you're saying. Surely this in itself goes against the guidelines?
It's almost like... We need more clear guidelines... So we don't have to keep guessing...

so this was said
While it would be difficult to make an exhaustive list of words that are and are not allowed, under our new policy, both of the words you gave as examples would be permitted so long as they are not directed at another person or group. This is in contrast to our previous policy, where no profanity whatsoever was allowed.
But then,
Stronger profanity, for example the F-bomb, is prohibited.
So, is it allowed or not.
It would depend if you ask me. Its one thing to say something like,
And to make it clear? These are examples.
I'm so fucking done with this bug.
That, the way I read it, is allowed, or if its not; it should be; again on a case by case basis, intent, etc.
Versus saying say, and again, example,
X user is a fucking... Whatever.
That second one isn't allowed. Am i reading that correctly? This is quite vague.

When you use volgarity to express yourself, you already lost the discussion or argument. Long live cats.

OK, same thing. Long live cats.

Not true. When profanity is used, it doesn’t mean one loses a discussion. Now. Using profanity against someone? Yes, you lose a discussion right there, but as is? No. Bad words how you put it, can also be used as say, shock, etc. I.e, saying something like say, hell if something shocks you wouldn't make one lose the discussion. Saying however, go to hell? Yeah that does make one lose the discussion, but there's a huge difference between both examples.

Holger,
While I understand the sentiment you're expressing here, your statement makes it sound as if there is something to be won. While debates may happen here from time to time, this is an online forum, not a debate club. We all want the same thing, we are not here to argue perspectives. I would point out though that there is a difference between being vulgar (writing tasteless content), and swearing for emphasis.
For those of you who are struggling to figure out what kind of language is acceptable in what circumstances, I would suggest asking yourself these questions, which I have touched on in previous posts about this topic.
1. Is what I'm saying directed at a specific person, or am I saying it in a way that's related to my own perceptions/experiences?
To add to the example that has already been presented. "I'm really frustrated with this damn voiceover bug," would be totally fine, as it relates to something you are experiencing. "You're not doing the right damn thing if you can't reproduce this bug yourself," is not, as this statement is directed at another individual and could be seen as an insult and an attack.
2. Would this be allowed on TV/radio?
If the word that comes to mind is not something that would be allowed to be broadcast commonly on TV/radio, then it probably isn't allowed here. As I suggested to the team before, a good approach might be to pick a TV/film rating which reflects the general level of language that the Applevis team is willing to allow here.
To the team themselves, I realize this topic has been, and probably will continue to be, a source of disagreement with some. But I think the fact that this policy has been put in place can have a positive impact in the long run, so long as people are responsible with their language. I am happy to help with this transition in any way I can, and will certainly flag any instances which go against the spirit of the supportive community we are trying to foster here. Thank you.

Gar, this is exactly that balance we are trying to strike. Well done on an articulate explanation that could only come from someone who has not been entrenched in trying to figure these things out on the regular for the past month.

As it relates to the TV rating example, we did discuss the idea of using PG-13 as a good baseline for what to recommend to people inquiring about what is appropriate and what is not. The problem we came up against is that PG-13 is a US-only thing, and thus not the best example for an international audience. I appreciate the suggestion and the thought behind it, though!

Hi Michael,
I appreciate the recognition, and the challenges the team faced in trying to come up with a standard. I would suggest that a lesser known standard might be better than leaving people in the dark though. If not adopting it, the team could at least use it as a reference point for establishing/enhancing a community code of conduct around acceptable language, then posting that to the website somewhere. I recognize this might take some time and effort to see through, and am once again happy to help where I can if needed.
I would also suggest that PG-13 might be better known than you think. United States media is hardly confined to the United States. It is hosted on platforms like YouTube (which granted doesn't operate the same way as cable television), streaming services, which do have to classify programming in some way, etc. I am happy to hear from other perspectives though, in case I'm wrong!
Thanks for all the work you do.

Sorry, but I genuinely don’t see why we can’t simply do without profanity altogether. I don’t understand why defining what counts as profanity has become such a major issue. Using clean, respectful language is not difficult. Honestly, I prefer the previous approach: AppleVis should return to the earlier policy where profanity wasn’t tolerated at all. Some people are turning a very simple matter into an unnecessary problem.

Hi maldalain,
I understand why you might have an issue with this new policy and how it may impact language on its face. I do agree with you that using respectful language is not difficult, and that in direct interactions between two people that is always the way to go, to avoid raising tensions or sending the discussion into a defensive tailspin. The change in the policy, at least as far as I understand, is not simply about what words are and are not allowed on the forum. The purpose is to allow more expression among users, so long as it remains relevant to the section of the website a user is posting in, does not detract from the core purpose of Applevis, and is respectful. Let's be real here, being a blind person using a screen reader is not a clean, always pleasant experience. Using the internet is not always a clean, pleasant experience. Different people express themselves in different ways, and by allowing swearing under some circumstances, I believe it can make the struggles we deal with surrounding Apple products and software more poignant to some.
Your stance is that, "Some people are turning a very simple matter into an unnecessary problem." I can understand why you think that way, but it is not, nor will it remain a problem so long as members of the community respect one another first. Just because swearing is now allowed in some circumstances, that doesn't necessarily mean, and nor should it mean that people will do so at every opportunity. But the option to do so is now there, if people think it might provide some emphasis to their point. While there are some things we as a community still need clarification on, I have no doubt that more guidance could be provided in time if things start to get out of hand. In the meantime, I don't think that mild swearing, so long as it isn't directed at anyone, will do any harm to visitors of the forum. Swearing is something we all deal with in our real lives, if not daily then likely at least with some regularity. As a society we should know how to handle it so that things don't spin out of control, acknowledging that everyone has a different style of self-expression and the right to express themselves as long as no one is harmed. In the real world, we learn to tolerate it, deal with it, or ignore it. As a digital hub for Apple accessibility content, as a place that is likely to attract users from all backgrounds, and as a place of free, open discussions (and yes, sometimes debate), I think we should make an effort to accommodate reasonable differences in communication style between people/cultures.
I hope this helps clarify things.

Well I certainly needed some daggum entertainment today. Incidentally I've received one moderation warning in all my time posting on this forum for a riff on that old "Dammit Jim I'm a doctor" gag from original Trek. Something Something about how gemini is always saying "I'm a large language model, not a phone." I think even the most pure among us should be able to see that's just wasting the mods time, we've all seen a PG movie or at least I hope we have …

these bumbling buffoons have been chasing me in my inbox for every god forsaken hell and damn word for past year. Worst, they blocked my account for a while, and kept following up with an Inbox which I barely ever checked.
For a while, I thought mods had a meeting with Trump or something. Moderation on steroids.
Any ways, I am sharpening my finger tips to sprinkle some very creative non-personal profanity going forward. God save the buffoons!
Jokes aside, I do like writing without profanity, helps me practice for my professional emails. But, using non-offensive profanity sometimes adds a bit of creative touch which no amount of word wizardry would achieve.

Sorry, sorry, I couldn’t resist.

Very good call.

Thank you for rangling us group of misfits.

For those wanting more clarification, I'm guessing they can only decide whether something is suitable after the fact, which makes sense; it's an evolving policy.

Regarding using profanity at all: I believe all words have their place. Constant profanity devalues the coin whereas carefully placed expletives can work to extend the emotional engagement.

Flipping this, it doesn't take profanity to insult, offend or attack. That is the most important thing the mods must sensor. This is a tech forum, we can insult and exult tech. We can praise and criticise companies (even Apple). What we must not do, is attack each other.

Thank you AppleVis overlords for your wise and proportional response to this topic.

bum.

Did state discussion or argument. How we communicate says more about us than anything else, There are several kinds, the one you do in the streets, home and work. How you express yourself at home is different from work and outside in the streets. Needing guidelines for this says more about people than applevis. Long live cats.

Sorry, couldn't resist but in saying that, this, was long over due and a great one to rip off the books for 2026. I was more accused of a swear word here and there when none, of that shit I said was directed at anyone. Member the jacket.fm thread? Yeah, I praised the dev for his work and in doing that, gave him a suggestion on improvements and I remember saying something like, you could do X y to = z and hell, maybe if you did something else you can pull it off better. The word hell, was not, directed at anyone and that's what really frustrated me and at that point, censorship was indeed I felt this was heading into and in fact, was more honestly pissed but I let it go. Listen, that's just one out of many examples I can think of on expressing words with out directing or attacking anyone. Maybe don't direct a swear word nor personal attack anyone and you'll all be fine. Simple. Honestly don't understand why some you gotta make a big fuss. To me, it's more expression on freedom of speech with out going too far and that, I can get behind. We're in the 21st century after all. This needed to be done a long ass time ago. Remember, yall have a choice on what you say. Nobody is asking you to swear here! Take that or leave it. Keep up the fantastic work team.

Agree. Long live cats.

Seems like a very sensible move.

It is sad that it got to this point where AppleVis had to put guidelines and rules about how we communicate with each other. We are adults and we should behave appropriately. Well in a perfect world we would. Long live cats.

welll goodness me, I didn't know that bloody wasn't allowed under the old policy! I've been a member of this site 15 blaiden' years now and have gone about bloody this, that and the other on several occasions. Not sure how many. There was once an episode of Till Death Us Do Part - a slightly controversial sitcom here in the UK with the main character being called alf Garnet - which was complained about by Mrs Mary Whitehouse, who made a career of complaining about naughty words on the telly. According to Whitehouse, this half-hour episode contained 186 bloodies - a point which, as she saw it, counted against the programme. That does not surprise me - alf was fond of a bloody or several. But I'd be interested to know how many times, over the years, Bingo has used the word bloody across these forums, or fora for the classicists out there. Same goes for bleedin', blaiden' (which is an interesting variation on bleedin'), blasted. On the overall theme, the new policy makes perfect sense and it's just a question of using common sense, ain't it? Just steer clear of the fire truck and similar and all's well.

Thank you for the clarification of this policy. I do see and acknowledge the variety of viewpoints in the comments here, having read through everything before deciding to toss my 5 cents into the hat.

Having come from a Communications background myself, including broadcast standards of yesteryear and journalistic integrity (is that even a thing these days? j/k) I do realize standards for freedom of speech vary widely from geography to geography, culture to culture. Not all of those will understand the others, and this is where tolerance needs to be practiced.

I myself do use such strong language when I'm accordingly frustrated with something, though it's not nearly as frequent and common as, say, my significant other when she launches into a tie raid (sp?) about anything and everything. Her "expression" is a part of the constant background of my own life, as from just a moment ago while writing this. But when she gets in front of her customers, she's kind and empathetic, and understanding. The colorful language is saved for those who know her personaly, and best. Perhaps that is the lesson here. Consider your audience when choosing your words. Will use of certain explicatives help drive home the point you're trying to make? Or just serve to turn your audience away and stop listening to you? If you can make the point "cleanly," of course that's preferred, but if you need to flavor your commentary with spicy language to drive home the intended point, that should be one's prerogative, within acceptable societal norms.

And now, prior mentioned verbal diatribes are making composition difficult due to distraction. Time for some active listening and understanding, and wrapping up of my own fragmenting thought process.

Thank you for listening. I'll be here all week...Try the veal. Tip your server.

Sad thing about them is that to fix problems, sometimes they go to far. Extremists cause the problem in life. Not saying this is here but it happens. Long live cats.

I'm sorry, Bo, but it was that kind of talk that put an end to the excellent Caesar the Geezer show on Talk Radio UK in 1995. It is my duty to inform you that your colleagues in the broadcast regulation game made a lot of people at my boarding school at the time very unhappy. You might even have made one or two of the teenage girls cry. Loved Caesar the Geezer, one of whose trademark sign-offs was: core blimey, listener, you're an ignorant git! and before anyone starts going on about profanities, that particular noun appears in Harry Potter and the Chamber of secrets, so you can bleep orf.

Well guidelines or rules tend to become to much when they try to regulate behavior or language. Like I said, adults do not need it but not all know how to express themselves without using it. Long live cats.

Not everybody on this website is adults. There are some teenagers on here. I think this may have been why this was put in place. But I think everybody at Apple versus doing a great job.

If you are unsure whether or not your response might be offensive, ask Chat GPT or whatever your AI bot of choice may be. After all, at this rate, we'll be asking AI how to get out of bed in the mornings before too much longer. grinning

Perhaps AppleVis need to make a webpage for them. Even when I was a teenager I knew how to act in front of adults. Long live cats.

I did too, but yeah, honestly, that’s not a bad idea if it’s like a separate section of the website for them or something. I don’t know. I’d have no idea how to do any kind of website creation so I have no idea without involved. And yes, cats are awesome.

How to act, or not to act, in front of adults has nothing to do with this. Hell, there's a lot of adults who cuss often for emphasis as an example. That one might do so; isn't a sign that, oh yeah you cannot act in front of adults. Granted cussing, profanity might offend some but if it does so what? You cannot control how others get your words or how you use them. That's on them; not on the person using profanity. Then again respect is a part of it, and say, if I know so and so doesn't like profanity I try to avoid it but at times? Yeah one might slip, but again; the getting offended etc is on them; not on me.

Honestly, I have no idea where he picked this up. Maybe from a neighbor cat. Who knows? The thing is, when my cat (Maxwell tiberius McCheetos) gets frustrated, he has been known to say "Fructose!"

Yes, I know, pretty crude and vulgar, but like I said, he doesn't say it often. His other swear word, however, is more common and more vile, such as when he loses a hand of cards and exclaims, "Frigate!"

sigh. Somehow my wife and I manage to tolerate his uncouth behavior, thinking it is largely because of his age. After all, the little fellow is only seven, yet we are at a loss what to do, how to approach him about proper etiquette.

Having guidelines by AppleVis says it needs it. Long live cats.

FYI. No cat use bad meow, she was a good girl. Long live cats.

Why, oh why, did you name your cat after a coffee brand, and Cheetos?! I mean, seriously... 🙄😛

Bella is not name for any coffee. She is in heaven, she left me in September. Long live cats. Seriously guidelines tend to pop up when people start to say whatever they think instead of thinking before they type.

Or, you know, guidelines pop up when a new rule is introduced. Let's say you couldn't talk about the Apple Vision Pro before, and now you can. But the mods don't want the forum overrun with Apple Vision Pro talk, because this is largely for people who have various visual impairments, so it would be used a lot less by us. They'd obviously implement some sort of guidelines to try and get the outcome they want. Because how in the world do I know what they think is too much? I can't know that until they tell me somehow or other, for the simple fact that I'm not a mind reader.Has nothing to do with people not thinking or whatever you're on about. It has to do with whatever kind of change being made, and figuring out how to implement that change such that you get the outcome you're after.

Again, suppose for some reason we have our Vision Pro rule change, and this place suddenly gets overrun with new users coming in and talking about nothing but the Vision Pro, so that the more usual stuff, more useful for us, is getting drowned out. This has nothing to do with people not thinking, talking about the VP is allowed and they've apparently decided they want to talk about it. It still might be too much, in which case, you'd get guidelines, rule changes, call it whatever you want, to try and get things closer to the way they were.

In other words, the fact that what we're talking about here is that now people can say "what the hell Apple?" every once in a while isn't relevant to how rules work and why they exist. It works the same as any other rule, it just so happens to be a rule about a more controversial topic than, "should we allow Android talk"?

It's a simple fact that some kinds of rules are going to need guidelines, either initially, or because enough new cases come up that a rule has to be modified to take them into account or clarify for people or what have you.

Personally I can see it both ways. While I agree more with the expression folks, I think the people who are all "I can't say 'that damn bug', you're trampling my rights!" need to get the hell over themselves just as much as the folks who feel that if you say you need to get the hell over yourself, you're a drooling idiot who can't argue to save your life.

IMO I don't really see an issue with Applevis being family-friendly, as we often call it here in the US anyway, and I'm honestly baffled as to what "problems" could have been caused by that such that the mods decided to change things. But they did, so here we are.

Personally I can curse like a sailor who went to sailor school and then took special sailor cursing courses at sailor college before getting a Ph.D. in sailor cursing. Doesn't mean I have to or anything. So again, I do see the side of "you don't really have to do that". No, you don't. Some people do and want to though, and the mods have decided to allow it, within reason.

But *they* are the ones who decide what's "within reason". Again, as none of us are mind readers, so far as I know, that means the mods are going to have to work some stuff out and probably offer some more guidance at some point. Nothing to do with people not thinking. Every "bad word" in this post was quite deliberately chosen, I assure you. I even considered not using any at all, but thought illustrative examples are generally better than not, so here we are.

Well you are free to your views. See how expressing without profanity. Nice and polite. Long live cats.

No no no. You have that backwards. He wasn't named after the coffee; the coffee was named after him! As was Cheetos, of course. Silly Brian.