I used to think Apple Support was pretty darn good, until this happened

By Mert Ozer, 15 April, 2025

Forum
Other Apple Chat

Hello guys,

I used to hear that Apple Support was pretty darn good, and I thought so too—until my last experience with them. After posting on AppleVis about VoiceOver being unresponsive and other bugs that came with macOS 15.4, I started a chat with Apple Support just to ask if I could downgrade my macOS version to the one my MacBook came with (15.1) or to 15.3 without losing any data. They put me on hold for over 10 minutes after asking for my serial number, MacBook model, etc. After all that, I expected a short and definite answer—yes or no. Instead, the support person started sending me articles about updating macOS to the latest version and reinstalling macOS from macOS Recovery. But those didn’t answer my question, so I asked again: Can I downgrade to any other macOS Sequoia version without data loss? And, funny enough, they sent me articles about how shutting down your computer without saving your work could lead to data loss. They also wanted to end the chat before I did, saying, “I hope it was helpful, wish you a good day!” At that point, I had wasted over half an hour, so I ended the chat and took the survey about my experience—I gave them 1 star.

What can these people even do other than take your serial number and send you a bunch of irrelevant articles? Seriously, I thought they weren’t even Apple for a second. Also, as far as I know, Apple Support isn’t free once your coverage expires. Anyway, rant over—but I’d love to hear about other people’s experiences. Was it helpful for you?

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Comments

By Maldalain on Tuesday, April 15, 2025 - 07:12

If you have Apple store where you are, schedule a meeting with genius bar technician. I believe Apple support has moved overseas and you may have difficulty understanding their language.

By Mert Ozer on Tuesday, April 15, 2025 - 08:12

Can you clarify what you meant by that? My point is, researching on Reddit, the internet, or AppleVis is way more helpful at this point than Apple Support—and that’s ridiculous.

By jim pickens on Tuesday, April 15, 2025 - 08:12

I’ve always seen research as more helpful than support, because they’re so darn incompetent 99.5% of the time. That being said, if you go to your local Apple Store if you have one, the experience is pretty amazing, I’ve never seen such a good customer experience ever, that being said, Our customer experience is more like, oh, you want a refund? I don’t know, I’m not feeling it today, I’ll just say it’s not covered or something. So maybe my standards are real low

By Mert Ozer on Tuesday, April 15, 2025 - 17:12

Man, I'm trying to make a bootable usb; I've tried installing 15.2, 15.3, and 15.4 but non worked. I'm applying the steps mentioned on 9to5Mac's video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5Tb_EdIG3c&t=108s

When I type “softwareupdate --fetch-full-installer --full-installer-version 15.4” on my m4 pro macbook pro which is also running 15.4, it scanns for the update for a while and gives the following error: Install failed with error: Update not found I had typed the command to show the available software and 15.4 was showing up. I also tried to make a bootable usb by using the installer I downloaded from the Appstore but it didn’t work either: Failed to extract AssetData/boot/Firmware/Manifests/InstallerBoot/* from update bundle The bless of the installer disk failed. I don’t know what to do at this point, any suggestions?

By jim pickens on Tuesday, April 15, 2025 - 18:12

Did you try grabbing the installer package directly from Apple bypassing the App Store, I’m not sure if you can do it with an IPSW, but it might work.

By PaulMartz on Tuesday, April 15, 2025 - 20:12

Sorry, I have no answer. Just this warning. I downgraded once and found that my iTunes library still behaved as if it had the more recent version. That is, the downgraded Music app could not access my music files. Beware.

By Rixon Smith on Tuesday, April 15, 2025 - 21:12

As we’ve discussed before, I think it’s a better idea to visit an Apple Store to help with software issues. The main reason I say this is that it’s more one-on-one, and you can get them to understand your problem better than trying to explain it over the phone.

By Maldalain on Wednesday, April 16, 2025 - 03:12

I have the 15.4 and it is fine. Try to see what might be causing your problems with the current version of your MacoS. Downgrading might not solve your problems.

By Mert Ozer on Wednesday, April 16, 2025 - 04:12

Honestly, my problems with chat gpt and gemini are not only what I'm experiencing, other people posted about them as well. Also, I can't even get my mac to make a bootable usb with 15.4 ahahaha

By Sebby on Wednesday, April 16, 2025 - 04:12

I advise the cleanest and quickest solution, which is to put your MBP in DFU mode and blast it with another Mac. Using a USB stick works but it's not really the same procedure as on Intel Macs, you need to carefully delete the old volume group from Recovery before you install, as the Mac technically now boots from an internal partition rather than the USB as such, which just contains the installer.

Also, and this may not be apparent, but try using another port for your USB stick. Yes I know it's crazy, but Apple has documented that booting USB from the DFU port will not work. So you need to identify which port is your DFU port, and then *not* use that port for the USB stick.

Again though, remember that as Paul said, downgrading may not actually be the best option here if you have data that is no longer compatible with an older version, such as your Apple Music library.

By Craig on Wednesday, April 16, 2025 - 08:12

As your problem is related to having issues with VoiceOver, would Apple's accessibility team be able to help you?

By Mert Ozer on Wednesday, April 16, 2025 - 09:12

It's crazy but DFU port was the problem. I thought it was the second type-c port on the left side but on my mac it is the first one... I knew that the mac wouldn’t use the usb stick as as a boot disk but I thought since I was only trying to create a bootable media that wouldn’t be a problem. Actually, I don’t even really need to downgrade my mac so bad, it’s just when I can’t do something, I keep on trying until I’m satisfied with the final result, so that’s me. Now I’m transfering data from my time machine backup that was made on mac OS 15.4, will see if it works… It said the migration is complete and is restarting. Let’s see…

By Sebby on Wednesday, April 16, 2025 - 10:12

With Apple Silicon, things around booting, installing and cloning have got really hairy, to the point that it's best to always take the path of least resistance and do your best with your existing backups, just like on iOS really. It's crazy, but you're not supposed to think of Macs and macOS as an open system, because it's not; you instead work within the confines allowed you.

Good luck with it.

By Tara on Wednesday, April 16, 2025 - 13:12

I very rarely use support of any type because of issues like this. I've never used Apple support in my life, the people here on Applevis are likely to know more anyway. In the past, I've found some subreddits with people far more knowledgeable about general Microsoft stuff than the people on the Microsoft community forums. I wonder if there are any good Apple subreddits, there might be people there who could give you a clear yes or no on how to downgrade. But you've received some possibilities in this very same thread anyway. At Brad, I agree, there should be disabled people in these types of accessibility support roles. As for VoiceOver specific stuff and YouTube, it might be worth giving a public shout-out to Google on Twitter or another social media platform. Far less hassle than staying on the phone for ages. But if you were talking to an accessibility department, then that's truly shocking. If you tell them publicly on Twitter you can't do x or y with VoiceOver, the issue might gain some traction.

By Khomus on Thursday, April 17, 2025 - 05:12

But I can't anymore. Put this in the Re: just about *every* tech support is bad file, and having blind people won't necessarily fix it.

Internet Explorer updates, to version five, if that tells you how far back this goes. I was running JFW, of course it stopped working. SO I went into the JFW script for IE and changed the version number to 5 or 5.5 or whatever the new one was. It sort of worked. So I called tech support.

After explaining what was going on, JFW tech support dude, this was back when they were Freedom Scientific and nobody else, tells me I'm not running IE five. I tell him I absolutely *am* running it. He says that's impossible. I ask him why. He says, and I'm quoting here, "because JFW doesn't work with it". So I turn on the external speakers, crank them up, hold the phone up to them, and get JFW to read the IE version number. He insisted that couldn't be right.

At that point, I ended the call, and I believe that was the first time I seriously started using Firefox, JFW's support for it had just gotten to the point where it was really usable, for the most part. I'm not necessarily trying to slam JFW's tech support, well OK a bit, because that's pretty bad, essentially telling me I'm lying. But I mean, maybe the dude had a bad day or something, I dunno. And to be fair, I'm pretty sure they got new IE working fairly quickly, I remember a couple weeks to a month, but it was a good while back, so that could be wrong.

Their tech support is really great for basic stuff, i.e. getting your stuff activated if there's an issue. But that's true of a lot of companies really. Once you get past the basics, it's really hard to find somebody who really knows what they're doing.

Like I bought a router once that kept dropping telnet connections. I had to go through like four or five people before I found somebody who A. knew what a telnet connection and keepalive were, B. why I wanted to set keepalive, and then told me that it wasn't something I could and he had no idea when or if they'd ever change that, needless to say I returned the router and bought one that didn't drop connections.

By Blindxp on Thursday, April 17, 2025 - 06:12

Apple support has worked pretty well for me. But yeah as the above comment I said, once you start getting into the more difficult stuff, that’s when you might hit a few brick walls, or maybe more.

By Sebby on Thursday, April 17, 2025 - 15:12

They're there to keep the plebes well away from the engineers. Don't be too hard on them. The real issue is finding someone who is at least humble enough to recognise that you've got a problem and pass you on if necessary. The trouble is that, often, sadly, usually for reasons of job security, this does not happen and management rewards incentives that aren't good for the customer. Glorious capitalism!

By TheBlindGuy07 on Friday, April 18, 2025 - 02:12

This summarizes it pretty well.