It was like a dream, but not as coherent. I was lying on a storage room floor amongst stacked boxes. Maybe. I believed it was dark, for what that was worth. AND, I heard distant, thin reedy voices. Was I safe? Should I call out? Who am I and what am I doing here? My reptilian brain spoke up. "Stay quiet. Hide. Alone is good."
Clarity and reality eventually bubbled up. I learned something interesting that explained nearly everything. Hospital drugs are truly powerful.
I had been injured in late 2020, which was terrible timing on my part. Note to self: Avoid walking into low steel fences during pandemics. So, I woke up that particular morning in a small room, in the middle of a building packed with cases of Covid. There were no vaccines and few therapeutics to manage the outbreak. Not ideal. I didn't arrive with Covid, but here I was, stuck in an uncomfortable hospital bed, with an IV in one hand and no iPhone in the other. I felt very alone.
Luckily, I was only off the grid for a very few days. I quickly recovered and went home. Being alone at the hospital worked out well. I didn't catch Covid. And yet, at less extreme times, being alone can be a real drag.
During my career, I was never alone. I was generally surrounded by smart people. After thirty great years at the University of Texas, I cheerfully retired. However, just when I was getting used to lounging on my front porch, I was approached by a non-profit to take on an interim leadership role. Sounded great to me! The porch would still be there when I returned.
I showed up for my temporary job that summer day in 2010 with my trusty guide dog and a Nokia flip phone. That tiny little cell phone had real buttons, useful, in my view, for a blind guy on the move. Sure, I understood that the relatively new Apple iPhone was growing in popularity with large swaths of humanity, but why would I care? Invisible flat buttons on glass didn't sound too accessible to me. I bought my son one of the earliest iPhones, found it pretty useless, and figured that the blind would be left in the dark if this new technology took hold. I had heard that some small number of blind people liked the iPhone. Really? Why? For me, using an iPhone seemed comparable to my suddenly wanting to drive our family car. Sure, maybe with a lot of verbal cues from a fearless sighted passenger, I just might be able to successfully back out of my own driveway, without causing major property damage or running over a neighbor. But, why would I do that?
My awakening started on the very first day of my new job. Two employees, who both happened to be blind, asked to come into my office. They had something important to share. I was the first blind person in this role and they hoped to convince me that I stood a better chance of being successful if I would adopt an iPhone. That seemed like an odd thing to push. Still, I listened. They were clearly very bright, and they were fervent believers. I liked their presentation, and as I wasn't all that in love with my flip phone, I went to the AT&T store that afternoon. I picked up the iPhone 4, and then quickly discovered that I had much to learn. For the next two weeks, I had trouble making calls. I had trouble hanging up calls. I had a difficult time typing on a flat invisible keyboard. However, I was determined to make the iPhone work. I could see its potential.
At almost exactly the same time, AppleVis was born. David Goodwin, and his extraordinary band of dedicated volunteers, brought a new resource into our lives. Suddenly I was not climbing the learning curve alone.
For the last 14 years, I have been visiting AppleVis every day. The icon I created that links me directly to the AppleVis website sits at the top of my iPhone's Home screen. I always checked AppleVis first thing in the morning, and when things went crazy with my iPhone, or when a new iOS was being introduced, or when there was excitement in the world of accessibility, I might check AppleVis continuously all day. I loved it -- I was not alone! And, since I eventually turned my iPhone into my only computing device, the entire AppleVis community became my competitive edge in the world. Being empowered together is grand!
Alas, that world recently changed. I depended on AppleVis until late July, 2024, when AppleVis suddenly shut down. The reasons for their closure were all understandable, and I will always owe David and the entire team, a huge debt of gratitude, but the loss was genuinely sad.
During my solitary confinement, I ran into problems that I could have so easily dealt with just weeks before. I ran into a pesky problem with ChatGPT, and I couldn't check AppleVis for a work-around. I ran into an odd sorting behavior with Audible and could not visit AppleVis for suggestions. During this short period, random other apps seemed to occasionally slip off the rails, and I couldn't interact with the AppleVis community to get those apps back on track. And, where would I find feedback on the upcoming iPhone, or the new iOS, or how Apple Intelligence might work with VoiceOver? I was feeling very alone and offline.
However, I am an optimistic fellow by nature. I kept hoping, despite a lack of evidence, that AppleVis might yet rise from the ashes. And, thankfully, that is exactly what happened!
I am deeply grateful for all the work that must have gone on behind the scenes. I am thrilled that the community can stay together. What we have been able to do for each other, through AppleVis, has been an extraordinary gift for us all.
To David Goodwin, we owe much. Through his vision, we established a large community of blind and visually impaired users who shared their thoughts on all things Apple. Through David's talented and dedicated editorial team, his dream kept growing and serving our very engaged family. And, because of the great folks at Be My Eyes, AppleVis has a future.
Being a blind guy and using an iPhone is more fun when you have a community of other visually impaired folks who are also trying to wrestle current technology to serve us well. Welcome back AppleVis!
This is my 32nd blog for AppleVis, and the first in this new era. Hot dog!
I love this community. Welcome back to all of you, too!
Please leave your own thoughts and comments below. It is time for AppleVis to rock again!
You can find three of my older blogs at the following links: "Artificial Sweetener: ChatGPT and Me," "Staying Home: Already a Pro" and "Say What? : Hearing Aids, iPhones and My Apple Watch".
Fun Postscript: Beginning on June 23 this year, I was in class meeting my fourth Golden Retriever guide dog. There were only four of us in this particular class. At the time, I was writing a piece for AppleVis about Chubby Buttons 2, and why I loved this little media player gadget. All four students were male, that was a first for me, and three of us were over 65. The youngest in the group was 32. So, we self-identified as "The Three Old Men and the Kid." I told my classmates, that when I posted my next AppleVis blog, I would dedicate it to them. So, consider it done.
Comments
Alone
Yeah. That sums it up. Right after AppleVis shut down, it quickly sunk in how alone I felt. Thanks for putting my feelings into words, Morgan. It's great to be back.
Eloquent as ever.
Eloquent as ever.
Me too
Me too. Even though I'm new here, I can't be without applevis.
Thanks for writing this!
I felt the same way, and it's refreshing to see so many others did too. I love the Applevis community and what it stands for. I didn't realize how often I checked in here, until I couldn't. I may be teaching someone how to use the iPhone in the coming months, and the thought of doing so without support from Applevis was actually really scary.
Couldn't Agree More
Thanks for writing this post, I wholeheartedly agree with all the comments. This website was my go-to resource for my iPhone, Mac, and watch. I joined the community shortly after getting my first iPhone, a model 4S, just a couple of months after losing all my remaining site. To say that this community was invaluable to me as I learned each new Apple product, would be a big understatement.
When I read the news that Applevis was shutting down, I was in shock. However, I hung on to a thread of hope that, somehow, this incredible resource and community could be saved. I checked back to the site almost every day. In the meantime, I saved web archives for some of the guides that I frequently used, and, as co-facilitator of a Mac Users Group in Canada, I also spread the word for others to save the resources that they most rely upon.
Needless to say, when I saw on Applevis the note to stay tuned for some exciting news, I was relieved that a lost friend was returning. The news got only better when I learned that the incredible team at Be My Eyes would take over piloting the site, while keeping the same editorial team. The news could not have been better. A big thank you to Be My Eyes.
Also, if there is a blindness hall of fame, David Goodwyn should be an inductee. his hard work, imagination, and commitment to building up this site and fostering this amazing community has enriched my life as I learned to adapt to my new reality of blindness by reading and learning from other blind Apple users.
Welcome back, old friends.
No single point of failure
Perhaps we should all do more to ensure we are following this important IT principal - do not allow something you depend or rely on to become a single point of failure. Then you won't get so bent out of shape (and feel the need to publicly tell the world just how bent out of shape you are rather than, for example, deciding to go out and touch grass) when something like AppleVis, or any other service, goes dark (even if it's temporary).
The principal has served me well when developing and orchestrating highly-available, load-balanced IT services, and I'm sure it can serve others well in other contexts too. Fortunately, there are lots of other sources of community and engagement out there that one can turn to, even if they may not be as good as what you've come to know and love.
Great to Be Back
Morgan, this is yet another excellent post. I too, was afraid that AppleVis would never return. But here we are again, and I for one would like to sincerely thank Be My Eyes for stepping in. I probably don't have time to say everything I want to say, as I'm going out to eat later and probably have things going before that. But I, too, had a couple minor hiccups with my iPhone 14 during the hiatus. Actually one might be major, but only time will tell on that. I'm planning to make a separate post about it. Having said all that, welcome back everybody and here's to a bright future indeed for AppleVis and Be My Eyes!
It feels good to be back.
I didn't realise how much I relied on applevis until it was gone.
I don't make many help requests on here, I'm pretty good at using my IPhone but just reading this forum and answering where I could was something I didn't know I liked so much until I couldn't.
I'm so glad applevis is back and from what I'm reading, is going to stay around for a long long time.
Howdy Paul!
Paul,
It has been a long six weeks without AppleVis. I kept thinking about removing my Home screen shortcut to the AppleVis site, as it did feel like the funeral had already happened and it was time to go home. But, I just wouldn't do it. What if it suddenly came back to life? I knew I might be confusing hopeful with delusional, but I didn't let the link fade away. And now, that original icon is bringing me back here. Yippee!
I'm glad we are all back together. What a nice reunion!
Morgan
very happy that applevis remains!
I can only add my voice to all the comments expressing my apriciation of applevis!
excellent job of writing this
First I'm glad Applevis is back! Second I agree with those that missed it you don't realize how much it is relied on until it isn't there for your questions. For those that say use another site. It took 14 years to develop this. It took countless hours of work. Nothing will ever replace it and the sense of community and we're all hear to help one another. This is a community you just felt like you belonged. You the member have a hand in contributing to its direction. That could be an article you created an app entry ETC.
I absolutely agree with this…
I absolutely agree with this well written post, and am so happy it is back. I think one of my big concerns was, that even if the site did come back, that a lot of people, after reading that blog post from David, would not. I mean, I completely understand the reasoning behind it, but it sounded so incredibly final and like there was absolutely nothing to be done. So my concern was, even if the site was saved, that a lot of folks would just move on. I am so glad that does not appear to be the case in the least. I don't know many people on here, nobody personally, but I do really enjoy the interaction with my fellow tech heads on here. :)
You do not know what you miss until is gone.
Sometimes we take things for granted. Applevis was one. Glad that is back.
The Phoenix has risen
Ah, how striking it is, that our experiences—though distant in time and circumstance—are bound by a shared thread of discovery, adaptation, and, at times, isolation. As I read your account, the familiarity of your journey stirred in me the echoes of my own, and I felt compelled to recount my tale. For it was in the year 2017 that I, too, stood at the threshold of a new beginning—a moment of excitement tempered by uncertainty.
I remember it clearly, the day I made the decision to acquire an iPhone. iOS 13 had just emerged, and I, much like yourself, was filled with an eagerness to immerse myself in this technological marvel. The world seemed to whisper of its wonders, and yet, for a man like me—blind to the visible world but not to the complexities of navigating such devices—it was AppleVis that became the bridge between doubt and mastery.
This website, this community, became my haven. It was here that I found not only guidance, but camaraderie. Each visit revealed new insights, and each shared experience became a testament to the power of unity. It was through AppleVis that I learned to wield my iPhone with confidence, and soon after, my Mac and Apple Watch followed suit.
But it was not merely the devices that transformed my world—it was the people. As you so rightly said, we are united like a bundle of sticks, unbreakable in our shared resolve. AppleVis has not only empowered us with knowledge but has also created a sense of belonging that stretches across continents, reaching the young and the old alike, wherever the blind community exists.
Then came late July, and like you, I felt the weight of loss settle upon me. With AppleVis gone, it was as though the light in a vast and intricate maze had been extinguished, and I was left to grope in the dark, uncertain of how to continue. The problems, once easily solved through the wisdom of our peers, now seemed insurmountable. The familiar safety of our collective strength had vanished, and I feared that we, the blind community, were truly stranded.
But as you so aptly put it, AppleVis has risen again, like a phoenix from the ashes. With its return, I too felt a breath of fresh air—renewed hope, and the comforting knowledge that we are once more united. The future, once shrouded in doubt, is now illuminated once again by the guiding light of this remarkable community. I wrote my own reflections in another forum, much like you, but I find in your words a kindred spirit—one who has walked the same path, felt the same uncertainty, and emerged with renewed vigor.
We are, indeed, bound together in this journey—unbroken, unyielding, and ever-moving forward. Let us continue to support one another, for it is through this unity that we shall thrive.
Yours in fellowship, Roman.
Yo Ollie!
Thank you for your kind note, Ollie. I'm glad that the piece worked for you. It was a difficult blog to write because I really wanted to describe how adrift I felt for that very long month and a half. However, we stayed together. My deepest thanks is for those who had kept AppleVis so vibrant for so many years and then selflessly helped bring it back to life with a partnership with Be My Eyes. What an incredible story. Volunteerism at its best. And, we do have a grand community. So incredibly happy that AppleVis is still a part of our lives, and that all of us are still a part of this larger family.
happy
I was also shocked to see the news of AppleVis' closure. Even though I've only known about it for less than a year, I feel good about it because this website allows me to meet blind people from all over the world. For me, this is not just a community for blind people who use Apple, but a community where blind people from many countries can get to know each other.
When I heard about the shortage of website administrators, I really wanted to help because I use Drupal CMS to make websites. However, I'm not good at English and I was afraid that I wouldn't be able to do it well, so I didn't contact them.
When I heard that AppleVis was finally back, I was very happy and would like to thank everyone who helped bring this website back again.
For those who read my comments, I apologize for my rather poor English skills.
@ Suriyan
Your English is fine.
this was a lovely read. I…
this was a lovely read.
I got my IPhone in 2019. and hopped on to applevis. and have been there ever since.
it was hard to deal with its quiet because i regularly opened this website. sometimes more than once in a day. so am glad for it to come back. because of course i want all the apple updates from a blind prospective.
and of course android doesn't have it so for me there wasn't as much sense of community using it as i've with IOS devices. though large numbers of users are android users esp in my country coz these lil IPhones cost a whole lot here
smiled reading.
Yeah good to see the Sight…
Yeah good to see the Sight back and up and running. I have to admit that I had gotten into the habit of checking the website every day but it’s great that it’s been saved.
This is one of the best communities I've seen and I'm missed it.
I've grown up with Applevis. I'm 27 now, and I got my first iPhone in middle school. The iPhone really got me into how freeing tech can be for the disabled. I'd had other tech before, but it was never truely mine. My mommy gave me her old iPhone 4S, and I've had one ever since. I'm not super loyal to the apple ecosystem as a whole, but I've always loved my iPhones, even if I haven't really kept any other apple device I've owned. My mom taught me how to use my first phone as much as she could, but where she fell through, Applevis was there to break my fall. I got a Pixel tablet for my birthday recently and I've been trying to learn how to use it. I realized at some point that I wished there were a community like this for other tech, like android devices and such, because it's much harder to learn about accessibility from a blind person's perspective with the bare minimum. The companies don't really provide enough help. The community aspect is also great. Yeah, sometimes people are not nice to each other, but honestly, I've been in worse comunities, and this one helped shape my interactions with the rest of the internet.
Yay! Applevis is back!
I totally agree. I even told one of my friends who doesn’t think I should rely on it so much, how am I gonna know about the accessibility bugs and features and new updates how am I gonna know about new voices for voiceover, how am I gonna know what to watch out for that can cause potential problems with the device that I use. When I heard you guys were coming back, I was jumping through the roof. Being a musical person, I said my excitement reached to crescendo. Ha ha ha ha. Lol. But back on topic, yes, I am super glad that we are all back together again.
Hi Dtt Trung
Ddt Trung,
I'm really happy that you found AppleVis in the recent past, and that you have now rediscovered this extremely useful environment for the future. I've been using this site as a primary tool for 14 years and share the glee that it has come back from the precipice. Great stuff! Enjoy your time here!
RE: Alone: Life Without AppleVis
Good afternoon Morgan. So nice to see you back again. Have missed reading your work. I wholeheartedly felt every sentence of this story from you, when it came to losing Apple this. The day I read of its closure, I threw my phone down and immediately started crying. I was very surprised at my reaction. It took me three weeks to even pick my phone back up again, to open up AppleVis. Yes, lol, I use my phone, but not to go to AppleVis. I was very surprised at how upset I truly was, and then I realized how much of a valued resource this has become for me. I also have 14 years of history, using this website, many times a month. It's an invaluable resource for all of us. Thank you for sharing your story. I was on that ride with you. Congratulations on your new dog. I know all is going well. Please tell your wife hello.
Android
For android you have blind android users podcast, they also have an email list and telegram group
I am not a fan of email lists so I am just in the telegram groop
Just wanted to give accurate info about that
It's a good day Brooke
Brooke,
I also understand that strange realization that hit every time my muscle memory went to launch the link to the AppleVis website after it shut down. And having such a rich collection of good information potentially fading away into oblivion was distressing. I, too, am delighted that our AppleVis community is still intact. It is important that we have this place to gather and share.
Good luck with helping someone else learn the iPhone. I'm really glad AppleVis will be there to help you.
Thank you Wayne A!
Dear Wayne A,
What a great message! Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts. Your writing was superb and you really made your own story such a compelling example of how AppleVis has affected you. And, it was a genuine reflection of what so many others felt during the temporary closure of AppleVis. I really appreciate everything you said.
I've read your comment many times. Thanks for taking the time to write such a thoughtful note.
Howdy neosonic2
Howdy neosonic2,
The career that paid my bills forever was also in the computing services, so I do understand exactly what you mean by avoiding single "points of failure." Fortunately, and perhaps unfortunately, AppleVis grew up and flourished with a relatively thin layer of volunteers who just wanted to make a difference. And, when a critical person needs to step aside, it can tip even a treasure into the unknown. Losing AppleVis, even for only 44 days, was a huge shock. However, that same group of volunteers, contributors, and the community at large were so very fortunate to find a way to revive this platform with new robust underpinnings through Be My Eyes. What a thrill and thanks to Be My Eyes, the editorial team and all who made it happen!
Although I suspect I could find other places for tracking Apple-related products and their utility to blind folks, I am immensely grateful that the site that was my hub, AppleVis, survived the scare. It's good to see AppleVis back in operation! And, it's good to see the community again!
Good to see you as well neosonic2, and thanks for your perspective!
Hello again Ekaj!
Howdy Ekaj,
It is always such a pleasure to see your notes. Thanks for writing. And, yes, it is wonderful to have AppleVis back in our lives.
It has also been fun seeing just how many others are relieved, like you and me, that Be My Eyes has partnered with the same editorial team to keep this grand site up and running.
Thanks again for touching base! Best wishes to you!
Thank you, Brad
Brad,
It's funny how, even though we know better, we get so comfortable with people and things, that we often just assume they will always be there when we want them. Like you, I just knew that today, tomorrow and the next day, I would be able to get on AppleVis, learn something new, or perhaps help someone else with a problem I've already solved. The sudden loss of our communal space was disconcerting.
However, through the work of many, we have been reprieved. Phew! How fortunate we are, and how fortunate future blind women and men will be to have this wonderful resource available to them.
I sure appreciated your note, Brad. Thanks for the thoughtful message.
Cheers!
Hi mslion
I share your joy in AppleVis still being with us. And, thanks for your mention of my blog.
Onward!
Howdy Dennis Long
Howdy Dennis,
I really appreciated your point about the 14 years of work that went into making AppleVis the wonderful and truly useful platform that it is. And, the fact that it was built by a volunteer, managed by volunteers, with content created by volunteers, does make it a very personal creation and meeting place for all of us. I know of no other site like AppleVis, so yes, I am thrilled AppleVis is back!
Thanks for your great message!
Thank you to Justin Harris
Dear Justin,
I shared your concern that even if AppleVis were to survive its temporary closure, I wasn't sure that the same energy of the community would return if the site was revived. Fortunately, all early signs are very good.
I will admit that my heart skipped a beat, or three, when I try to access AppleVis last night. I got the message that it was down for a maintenance period and would return shortly. However, that was at the end of my day and I must admit that I immediately checked on AppleVis when I first got up this morning. And, as is pretty obvious because I am posting this note, AppleVis was up and zipping along. And, truth be told, knowing that maintenance is being done is always a good sign when running a critical and popular site.
Thanks again for your message.
Yo Holger!
Howdy Holger,
As always it is great hearing from you! And, of course, I agree with your point.
Thanks for your note.
Hey Roman!
Roman,
Thanks for your very well articulated note. It was a fun read.
It amused me when you brought up the Phoenix rising from the ashes. In my first several drafts of "Alone", I did explicitly write that it was like a Pheonix rising", but I thought that many folks would know that I was thinking Phoenix without my needing to mention it. I'm an old writer, and I still like to be conscious of word count.
Roman, Thanks again for your kind note..
Howdy Suriyan
Suriyan,
I enjoyed your note and, since you mentioned that you are a fairly new member of the AppleVis community, Welcome!
Like you, I understand what it is like to try and communicate in another language, and yet, I thought your English was quite clear. I just remind myself of how poor my French is and I can say with confidence that your English is quite good. I wish my French language use was as clear. When I speak in French, I always feel a bit like a seven year old, capable of interactions that incorporate location, hunger, and the normal courtesies, but I couldn't talk about Web design or more complex subjects. So, bottom line, I really appreciated the clarity of your message.
Again, welcome to AppleVis.
Thanks Khushi
Khushi,
I also used to often visit AppleVis more than once a day. And, besides the useful information, I do love the community.
It's good to see that you've been hanging out with AppleVis the last five years. Fun!
Thanks for your note. It was great to hear from you!
a little more about my story
I might've posted this somewhere else so if you already saw it sorry about that. I joined AppleVis followed it for a while kept getting told you should try iOS. I said one day well If you don't try you don't know. I tried and quickly found out you could control your phone totally using a keyboard. I have issues doing the touch screen gestures so this is why it is important to me. so off I went. that was that. I haven't looked back and won't look back. I may change from an iPhone 15 pro max to an iPhone SE4 but switching from Apple isn't an option for me as Apple continually improves accessibility every year.
Me too!
I wanted to add to everyone here.
I don't always post, but I wanted to say that while I am absolutely understanding of the reason's why AppleVis was shut down and it's a massiveunder undertaking, I am so glad your all here.
I, too have been feeling kind of isolated, and wondering what I was going to do about the fact that my only source of info for accessibility update, and somewhere I can go and just ask a question and have someone get it right away without having to ask, what re you talking about? is fantastic.
So upshot of this post,
Thank you to everyone here.
Writers, editers, everyone that just asks questions so bigger pictures can be formed. (Sorry, really, really bad pun, I didn't mean to...)
Kind regards to all of you,
Melissa.
Howdy Saj
Dear Saj,
Thanks for your note. In the last week, since AppleVis reappeared, life has felt a great deal more normal. And, it is really nice to see the community, as always, back to helping each other.
It's nice not to be left alone with only my iPhone and no support underpinnings. What a relief!
Cheers!
Yo Leela!
Howdy Leela,
What a neat story about growing up with AppleVis! I cannot say that I grew up with AppleVis, but I've certainly gotten older with AppleVis. I am glad that your Mom got you that first 4S. Stellar decision. I started with the iPhone 4 and have thoroughly enjoyed the evolution of this grand device. And, it does seem to just keep getting better. I installed iOS 18 yesterday on my iPhone 13 mini and so far, so good. It was a smooth transition and I have not run into any new gotchas. At least not yet. I shall choose to remain hopeful!
Best wishes!
Hello Exodia
Hello Exodia,
I remain rather thrilled with seeing AppleVis every day again. And, as usual, it proved extremely helpfful as iOS 18 became available.
A little "by the way," I am also a musician, although certainly not a pro. I used to be a violinist in my youth, but have become a mandolinist, playing for an audience of one. Thanks for writing!
Welcome back!
Howdy Roxann!
Dear Roxann,
First of all, my wife was as happy as I was to see you online. Thank you so much for writing. We've been hoping to see you again and my day was made when you sent your note.
Thanks for mentioning my new guide. He is a gem. We just got back from our morning route. Gee, we're in the second half of September and it's still rather warm. My new guide is my fourth Golden Retriever. As much as I love Labs, I find that the Goldens match my personality.
My apologies for taking so long to respond to your note this time. It's been so busy of late.
Thanks for sharing your own story of what it was like to temporarily lose AppleVis. I am, by nature, a very upbeat person, but I really did feel lost and rather alone without the community of so many others who see the world as I do. My university career did not put me into much contact with others who were blind, and most of what I learned about accessibility for most of my life was self taught. AppleVis provided not only a robust community of interesting people, but it also meant that I learned a whole lot from others. I, too, am truly thrilled that AppleVis is back. (And, I am working on more than one future blog for AppleVis.)
Roxann, it was, as always, great to hear from you.
Warm wishes from my family and pups
Thank you, all
I wanted to take this opertunity to thank everyone that has contributid, in all ways. I found this site quite by axident, 6 years ago, and it's my go to resource for anything apple and blind apple related accessibility areas, including hardware reviews, seems to know how to review from a blind persons perspestive so thanks, all.
I don't verry often comment, or contribute, mainly because so many people say it so much better arounn here, but If I think of something, i'll drop a line to everyone.
Regards:
Melissa.