Humanware Products: Are They for AppleVis Users?

If an assistive tech company can't send adds in an accessible format I don't know what is more pathetic than this. I honestly once loved humanware, the VR stream 2 was (and still is for most user) an excelent product with respectable build and software quality. Ever since the purchase from this other american company humanware *in my humble opinion* as a blind user is making product more and more expensive with crappy hardware even by assistive tech standard. Just the $7000 braillenote touch 32+ tells a lot with something like android 8 or so running inside and we're in 2024. Some of my info might be out of date but if this was outdated then it's just likely worst now. The stream 3 and the bi 40x have horrible boot and shutdown time. Are some of these useful to a niche group who don't know better? Probably. Are they worth the expensive price with a... decency of software and quality control they seem to lack? Probably not. Have I the right to have any say in whatever decision each individual takes at its own discretion about whether to buy/test these or not? Absolutely not :)

i can do all of the stuff that these devices can do on my android phone so i don't see the point of them, never did, probly never will

I don't mind the idea of the Stellar Trek. I've tried the Victor Reader Trek and it didn't work well for me as a city person, though. I would be curious to check it out.

I have a Brailliant BI40x and love it, though I should use it more than I do. I'm a lot faster reading with a screen reader compared to braille, and only just finished learning Grade 2 this year.

I wouldn't be entirely opposed to getting a braille notetaker, if they kept it to recent versions of Android and if they didn't cost an arm and a leg. Like, it would be great if I can run my Dungeons and Dragons character spreadsheets, draft some stories, possibly read Kindle books and read recipes on it. Yes, I know I can use my iPhone but I hate how the Kindle app works with my braille display and reading recipe websites on it sucks (though I've got a solution for that).

I can't comment on the quality of HumanWare products. I've only been blind for 4 years. But I'm fairly happy with my Brailliant.

It's never really been for me ever since i've gotten a phone.

This tech just costs so much for stuff that usually isn't worth it.

Oh and to answer your question, it's aimed at older people like yourself.

I hardly used the treck. As for the brailllenote, I was basically given one day of training with it in school and that was it so I never really used it.

Or at least I assume they do. These companies will be around for quite a while.

I like the idea of a computer with a braille display atached, some companies are doing this now but I forget what ones they are, but I don't think I like the idea enough to buy one when I have a perfectly fine laptop and will probably think that way for the wrest of my life.

Some people love tech like this and for them it's amazing! But for me, it's not needed.

Although not perfect. The BrailleNote Touch Plus still runs Android 8, as someone mentioned on this thread. HIMS BrailleSense 6 runs Android 12, which at least is still supported by Google. The HIMS SensePlayer, which is a direct competitor to the Stream, is also better. It’s basically an Android 12 device with a camera as well. Not saying HIMS is perfect, because they’re not, they’re just not as money-stealing.

Is that it's just one device vs 2 or more.

Selling basically a mix of VoiceVista / SoundScape and google maps in a box for 1000 dolars is completely nonsense. They're basically taking advantage of people who didn't adapt to the touchscreens.

Device multimedia audio player should be there just like how kindle and other e reader devices are. For the rest... I only trust orbit research at this point. They know what they are doing, and yes hims are very good with software from what I read online.

I personally use mine because it is one device. I want to write books for a living and I find it easier having something in front of me which does everything. Braille, speech, edit etc. I have always found that using a Braille display and laptop and or phone comes with problems and kind of disrupts my work flow. I do agree that they are pointless for 90% of users though.

In my phone, I am able to use audible, bard mobile, overcast, youtube, amazon prime, and so on. 1 universal device for most purposes.

Many people who use the Victor Reader Stream and StellarTrek also use a smartphone. They buy HumanWare products because they like using physical controls for things. Some additionally use assistive technology hardware products because not using a smartphone for all possible tasks extends its battery life.

You live in the UK, you probably get around £1200 a month, you are very very lucky to get that money.

I get it too but I also know that in America, you'd be lucky if you got $800 a month, that depends on what state you're in of course, so the price thing is a very good argument as to why people might not want to get these products.

Now then, I love my technology. A sirloin roast is just cooking very nicely in the sous vide bath as I write, with temperature at 58 degrees and 3 hours 59 minutes remaining on the timer. I know all of that because of the dear old Instant Pot Pro Plus which I have set up through the Instant brands app. I took some beautiful photos of my recent trip to Devon using PiccyBot. I can ask my Echo to make a cup of tea and it will...erm, boil the kettle and then leave me to make it mi' bleedin' self. I can emboss a document directly from my dear old iPhone.

and yet, I include the stream and the brailliant in my armoury. Here's why.

Let's start with the stream: it's much, much more efficient for learning choral parts. i could use voiceDream, but that doesn't allow me to go back a second or so just to hear that last part of 'mourn, ye afflicted children' again. It's also much more efficient when I'm recording my students' advocacy classes or conducting their advocacy assessments. That one's a bit more difficult to explain but, to give one example, I can insert a bookmark with the push of one button rather than fiddling around with explore by touch or swiping all over the place. Makes it much easier to give feedback.

"Oh come on, Bingo, surely those are only two rather minor use cases?"

Nope, sorry, you're talking out of your hat. Whether something is minor or not is a value judgment, so stick that in yer pipe and smoke it!

Now then, let's turn to the brailliant: in summary, it's very useful to have a low-tech gadget sometimes. I make a lot of sensitive notes - things that I do not want stored online in any way. The Brailliant's so last century connectivity offering here is priceless. Plus it allows me to write in BRF - a format sufficiently impenetrable to satisfy our corporate data protection policy. I can connect to the iPhone if I want to, or forget about the iPhone for a bit if I'd rather. To be able to read a book without consuming iPhone battery is also very useful from time to time. Indeed, I would go as far as saying that the brailliant's simplicity makes it a brilliant product. if there's one product line I don't understand, it's these braille note takers come tablets, like the brailleNote Touch. They really are neither one thing nor the other.

"Ah but hang on, bingo old lad, don't you realise how much you're paying for things your phone can do anyway?"

well, first of all I'll thank you not to impute scenility to me in that fashion - as if I'd pay that kind of money without realising! secondly, I shall not repay the complement in kind and shall assume that you were able to garner from the immediately preceeding sentence that I am, indeed, aware of how much I have to pay for this sort of thing. Thirdly, however, it's no less money than some of you phone for everything people spend on your latest glasses, phones, iPads and what have you, with all the duplication you purchase by reason thereof - is that not correct? I think we're back to deuce.

I'm 42, by the way. turn 43 towards the end of this month. I'm not old, but not young either. Middle-aged. Yet I feel that the brailliant was intended for me and I also like the stream. I also like the good stuff. what does that make me? answers in the comments, please.

One thing you speech merchants won't realise is that I misspelt senility in the previous post. the great thing about the Brailliant is I can proofread my documents even when orfline and away from mi' dear old phone.

Disclaimer: I am not judging anyone here. I am asking because I am genuinely curious, and a little confused by the subject of this thread.

What is the purpose of this thread? From the OP, it appears that Humanware products are overpriced and underdeveloped. Then I read further down and someone is complaining that we should all just stop whining about prices and just go out and buy stuff.

Just because?

I personally cannot comment and/or review on any of the Victor Stream devices, as I never had one. I ended up with American Printing House's "Bookport Plus", if memory serves. Like Bingo mentioned, these devices are pretty nice for note taking, and reading aloud documents; whether an eBook or whatever.

I will end here by simply saying, the same damned thing I say when somebody pulls an Android vs Apple, or PC vs Mac thread; Whatever works for the person who owns said device(s) is what is best (for them).

Damn anyone who says anything else, whether it's cost or need, if someone says they cannot afford something, don't judge them for their choice. It is their money after all. 🤷

When I started using the Hable I did appreciate using something tactile and not having the screen and part of me wondered what a Hable phone would be like. But I've not used it in a while - it just seems quicker to just use the screen.

But there is something satisfying about using a device with physical keys, and that feeling of it being made for us and us alone is nice.

But I think if I was in the market for a simpler, tactile way to do what I can do on the iPhone I'd probably buy a Blindshell Classic 2 as it's cheaper that the Stellar and can do a lot more. (Bearing in mind I've not used one just heard about them)

I definitely think we are better off using the full power of a mainstream device if at all possible.

But I think the phone can be quite complex to use. Sometimes I don't get the swipes right, or I'm doing it too quick or the phone just doesn't like me. Maybe it takes a few goes to get the notifications to stay in place or whatever. And then a firmware update breaks it.

But I couldn't see myself moving beyond the iPhone, other than maybe Android if I ever got brave enough (unlikely). Humanware products seem very expensive for what they are.

I think I got at this earlier on but I'll have another go, in the interests of clarity: the discussion, and similar ones like this, appear to proceed on the basis that, if you use these Humanware or blindness products, you somehow are eschewing a mainstream device. Not a valid syllogism, my friends, not a bit of it. alternatively, people seem to think that you're somehow a bit of a bleeder because you could do all these things with one device, so there's no reason to have two. Jonathan Mosan, I've noted, is well into his one-devicery; but with Jonathan, it's one-devicery with a difference. He admits with refreshing candour that he doesn't himself want more than one device, but at the same time he's splendidly open-minded and understands that one-devicery isn't quite so important to others. Speaking for myself, I'm well aware that I could do everyting I wanted to with one device, but not in the way to which I am used. Not in the way that is splendidly conservative. Not in the way that annoys everyone who doesn't understand why we don't all opt for one device. Not in the way that baffles all you mainstream merchants. The more I think about it, the more I find myself thinking that it's worth using these specialist products because it gets some people, not to put too fine a point on it, rather cross! You can't put a price on stuff like that.

I get the high end of PIP and ESA, oh sorry, Universal credit, they've changed the name.

I get what you mean, mr bigo sir. All jokes aside, yes, using multiple devices can be useful. It's great that we can do all of this stuff on one device but at the same time, having a braille device could allow you to keep up with your reading, and it's just a good idea to strech the old brain sometimes.

I am fairly certain that people who "claim" to have only one device, are chalk full of the wonderful brownies that puppies make on lawns the world over. I myself have several devices, though some are rarely used. I mentioned above my Book Port Plus. I also have an old Olympus Digital Recorder (love, love that thing!), my iPhone of course, an Alexa device, a Fire Stick attached to an off brand Smart TV, and 2 laptops. Oh, and an Xbox.

Every one of these devices have some form of "accessibility" in them, in the form of voice guidance and/or a fully functional screen reader.

I also used to have an old RefreshaBraille, a talking scientific calculator, and a talking graphing calculator. Lost these last 3 devices over the years, probably when my ex and I went our separate ways.

I mean, I could say I have "one" device, when talking about my iPhone, and I do a lot on that device, but no, I do not believe anyone out there truly only has one assistive device.

Seems too limiting.

On a completely separate note, I think I love you, Bingo! Your posts always entertain. 😍😇

I see what you mean,, I have a laptop, a ps5 and a phone.

I don't think there is an argument that you have one device for absolutely everything, although I'm sure it's possible. I have plenty scattered around. I guess with some of these products, though, is that they sound like they are a similar form factor as the phone and do the same things as it can do, but just a lot less of them. As opposed to my Echos which are entirely different, or if I had a ps5 then that's also not really comparable to a phone.

But I think a lot of it is just how much you like to use something. I've started using my Meta Ray-bans for all sorts of things I could have used my phone for, but just didn't really want to. With blindness stuff threre is always that feeling that we have products we need to use, but it's also OK for us to have products we just want because they are nice.

On the subject of the cost, and I might be repeating myself al little from another thread, but it's all about the value you personally get from something as well as the affordability. Take Glide, it probably is very good value for money if you are going to use it a lot. If you aren't, then it might not be even if you could afford it. And with Humanware if you spend a few hundred quid on something you could do with your phone but you use it all the time and enjoy it, then it has good value for you.

Talking personally, if I come on these threads and say I don't see the point in something, I am meaning that as much a declaration of ignorance and I am interested to understand what it is that I am missing.

These topics are always good means of poking the bear - in this case, the blindness mainstream bear. why did they ever get rid of the brailleNote Apex? What a fine product that was! Anyone remember the nice little touches like indicating the start of a new paragraph by indenting two cells? Your bloody iPhone doesn't do that sort of thing! Then again, nor does the Brailliant (at least, if it does, I do not know how it does).

Brad, PIP is not the same as Universal Credit. Bingo is in receipt of the former, which he spends on multiple devices that do the same thing - ovens and microwaves, for example - but the latter is not open to him on account of his earning too much money using the Stream and Brailliant to give feedback to students on their, oftentimes, mediocre advocacy performances. This is in furtherance of their ambitions to be barristers, of course. Some of them, I have to say, would be better baristas than barristers. Now a barista is not a barrister - two different entities which, unlike the Brailliants and iPhones of this world, perform two different functions...though I suppose a barrister could make coffee as well as represent you in court. In fact, Bingo can do precisely that. so why would anyone bother with a barista when a barrister can do exactly what a barista does, and more?

I've heard many great things from braillenote apex from nostalgic users.

Oh I know that, I was just trying to say I get PIP and ESA or as they're going to call it in the future; Universal credit.

Oh and we got a masiv upgrade this year bingo bongo, a masiv 10 pounds or so extra, woooo! I can nearly by an extra subway meal deel with that. AH the UK.

And hasn't used a Humanware product since a kerfuffle twenty years ago between Humanware and Freedom Scientific over updating something to some greater number of bits that left an already ancient Keynote Gold, Stand-Alone synthesizer useless with Windows XP.

You know the saying of making an assumption. Will not say it because my comment will be remove. Using iPhone to listen to my overcast, bard mobile and audible for books,. Enjoy your 4th of July if you are in the US. Take care.

Why do you use a Perkins for so much more money when one of those pocket hand frames will do the job just as well? anyway who needs Braille when you've got lovely synthetic speech in everything these days? when tutors become tooters, undue becomes undo, and there's no difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse and helping your uncle jack off a horse? Who wouldn't want to live in a world like that?

Just remember your Subway meal deals are taxpayer funded if you're using your universal credit for such purchases. Bingo already pays far too much tax for discernible returns and he might well thwart the system by simply choosing to work less hard.

I’d very much hope we’re above shaming one another in that manner. It’s behavior any competent parent would have discouraged and I don’t mean to shame you in return, we generally have fun with our differences but lording it over people who rightfully claim support from a system designed to do exactly that is a step too far for me. I will stand up for those being punched down on. We’re better or at least should be better than that. It’s important to be aspirational isn’t it dear boy! I am confident you wouldn’t mean to shame but a little more awareness of how our off the cuff comments can put people down will make a world we can all be proud to call our homes for the duration of our time here.

I use the Perkins brailler for making notes or labels. It is reliable to me because I am able to maintain and fix it, and I've also found I have an endless supply of paper by using the thicker pieces of junk mail. I also braille on thin sheet-aluminum to make weatherproof labels when I graft trees. I doubt the Humanware devices will do that.
If by "pocket hand frames" you mean a slate and stylus, I use those too.
Interesting that we have lost the art of composing for the spoken word...

I’m very much looking forward to waking up in a country that has overnight strongly repudiated that type of attitude. We’ve taken a wrong turn and its time to check the map.

i'm sure, or at least I hope, you're joking.

I can and will use the money given to me for whatever I like. I'm very happy to keep living like this. Oh don't get me wrong; I want to work, but the uK doesn't want to hire me, i'll grant you I've not got a fancy smancy degree in anything, but, they don't want to hire me because they've never seen a blind plumber, or blind person who cuts back trees, or a blind person who goes into the suer to clean up, or any other job like that. If it involves sitting on your bum in front of a computer, I don't want to do that @bingo little, and if that makes you angry and other people from the UK to look down upon me because I want to get off of my arse but am unable to do so because of the world we live in; so be it.

Take it from someone who has a degree in IT, one i worked hard for, degrees matter very little these days. It is not any better over here in the US, either. No one wants to hire someone with blindness, because the truth is most hiring managers cannot see past a person's blindness.

Regarding degrees, however, it seems that everyone wants to hire people with Certifications over Degrees, hence why I am back in school.

In my late 40s, no less. . . 😖

Laber might, might, improve stuff on that end but we'll see.

Prefer that over a product for blind, they are to pricy and do not much. However what people use is best for them is OK. As the all saying goes, to each their own. Braille is important also and know it but do not use it so iPhone works well for me. Save money on getting other devices that for me serve no purpose. Be safe all and avoid the heat.

My remarks re Subway sandwiches were not directed at those who claim benefits. They were directed at the bleedin' tax burden, which is ridiculous. If i had meant to punch down, as Andy puts it, I would not have done so in that way. Nevertheless, I apologise for any ambiguity in these remarks - clearly there was such an ambiguity as the comments indicate.

As for the landslide built on quicksand, there'll be no argument from bingo. The outgoing government deserved it. It's them what mean taxes are so bleedin' high.

Now, having ironed out that misunderstanding I hope we can be friends again and get back to the topic about Humanware devices only being made for those who like making totally meaningless and costly purchases to do things other devices can already do. why buy a Kindle when you can just buy a paperback book?

Apprenticeships are the really booming market de nos jours. I work in higher education and have to teach the blue-coated devils. Legal apprentices. Degrees do not mean zilch - well, not all of them. It depends what you're in it for.

Let's see how this government thing goes, i'm not one for voting but am slightly hopeful for the years to come.

Anyway back on topic. I like places like sight village and love checking out all the new toys but have never gone away thinking I need that.