Hi,
I'm back to trying to find a means of watching live TV with audio description here in the UK. This is likely to get a bit ranty, so be warned.
Free to air Digital TV, through the arial, does have audio description but is only available on TV sets which have rather clunky interfaces and, when it comes to services like Netflix, BBC iPlayer, very little consistency in screen reader compatibility. Also, if one wants to watch premium channels, offerings from Sky, you're plum out of luck using Now TV which doesn't have audio description on its live channels. Kinda accessible, limited channel choice, free.
There is Sky Stream now, which has a screen reader which is okay, and I know they are trying to improve it but are limited by the hardware. Again, there is variation in accessibility across the offered apps though you do get audio description but, compared with Now TV, £10 a month, it is £28 for a 18 month contract, which does give you basic Netflix with adds, but is only available on one TV unless you upgrade to whole home for another £12 a month, making all this very expensive just to get a handful of channels that sighted folks could get for £10 a month, cheaper during deals. Kina accessible, very expensive.
There is EE TV which, apparently, has audio description on all channels including now TV channels and free view channels, but this too is expensive and requires changing broadband provider into the bargain. This has the advantage of being available on Apple TV too, but you only get one apple TV box that has the full experience, standard apple boxes don't offer the live channels. So, accessible, though expensive and highly disruptive.
These, as I understand it, are really the only choices, none of which meet our needs. I'd be totally fine with paying for the sky package if it had a quality and complete screen reader interface, but it's janky and, as yet, there is no audio description on it's catchup content, though fingers crossed this changes fairly soon.
Its just such a fragmented world of streaming for us that we end up having to buy several devices and subscriptions just to access everything and, if we can't afford it, well, we're limited.
What are other's thoughts? Are there solutions I've missed?
Comments
Hmm...
Well, there's bbc IPlayer, it has an audio described section, it's free.
There's the vergin tv app that is a bit clunky but does have some audio described stuff.
That's all I can think of for now.
There was an IPlayer thing made by the RNIB once, for what it was, it was actually alright, clunky yes but it worked, every channel was spoken and I believe you could turn on and off audio description.
I just mostly use audiovault.net and will probably just use a basic LG TV when I move out.
Fell by the wayside
I have Sky Q and that box is about 90% accessible. Most menus talk. However, 3rd party apps do not have AD on the sky Q box. Apparently, about 2 years ago Sky told me they were hoping to firstly make the parts of the Sky Q box inaccessible work and then get 3rd party apps to also work. Sadly, Sky glass and Sky stream has come along and Sky Q is now probably a dying platform. As you say not great. Would be interested to see if people in other countries like the US do have a complete service. It maybe a worldwide thing.
It's a full time job
If I literaly had nothing else to do I would write and maintain an 'Accessible TV and Movie' guide for BVPs in the UK. It is, IMO, that complicated - it would take months to do and ages to keep up to date
1
It is great, there is so much choice, but as usual, BVPs can't just live our lives, we have to become Assistive Technology specialist!
For what it is worth, I've given up on live TV. I can't think of anyting I wanted to watch I couldn't - maybe an election debate last week. So that is the good part of inaccessibility there!
If I was bothered, I'd go for EE TV, but I already have everything else they sell I think!
As far as I know, none of…
As far as I know, none of the catchup apps, iPlayer, ITVx, 4 OD, have audio description on their live programming.
I've not used sky stream for quite a while but believe it is the same screen reader on both that and Q. Hopefully they will get to a stage where it can be an all in one solutions with access to 3rd party apps... Who knows though.
I should also have mentioned freely which is a wifi based way of getting free to air programming which, apparently, has audio description, but there is no news if this is coming to apple TV or not, or any other streaming device.
Some Information
Disclaimer:
The author of this post is in no way affiliated with any of the following programs or services. The information is provided as is, and is meant to be used at the viewer's discretion. Please forward all perceived complaints of self righteous anger and/or injustice to your nearest wall-mounted mirror, bartender, or personal therapist. Thank you.Research:
After doing some google sleuthing on the interwebs, I found some articles that may be of some interest to you and anyone in the UK area. It is information on certain programs and services that cater to Audio Descriptive content, or at the very least, that is their claim.Streamers:
Unfortunately if you want any kind of satisfactory television experience, there really is no, universal, way to go. Not yet. There is a combination of streaming services that can give you a bit of what you want, meaning not just audio described content, but live audio described content. Some of these are:1. Netflix
2. Hulu Plus Live
3. Apple TV Live
4. Disney Plus
5. Prime Video
6. Paramount Plus
Resources:
The following links are what I found in my admittedly brief research. I hope you find it useful.- BBC.co.uk
GuideDogs.org.uk
BBC.com
Business.Scope.org.uk
**Edit**
I apparently fail at Mark Down. . . 😳
The thing is Brian
It realy is very complicated. We have BBC 1 with AD, but I think it is BBC 1 London. That might be the HD one or not. It is either 101 on Sky or 901. on Virgin it might be something else.
On the BBC iPlayer, you can watch the latest episode of a show with AD, but not next week#s, even if it is on the iPlayer and available to stream.
Netflix is about the only service that does it properly. For Disney+ I have to look on a US website to get a list of shows with AD.
I can buy a film on Amazon that says it has AD, but then I can't watch it wiht AD. And it goes on like this, on and on.
I just steal AD titles from the Internet now and don't worry about it.
Apologies
I had to edit my above post multiple times, as I fail at formatting it seems. Anyway, regardless of what you folks may think, it is not much better over here. I pretty much watch new stuff via a certain website that we all know about, but like someone's ugly step cousin, noone will talk about.
Older shows I can sometimes find on Prime Video.
Mostly however, I have lost interest in television. I still enjoy an occasional movie, but would rather read books then watch television. 🤷
I think Hulu Plus Live might be good for you all, and you can watch Hulu on a rediculous amount of devices, including Xbox (Ollie, I'm pointing at you)
It's specifically live TV I…
It's specifically live TV I'm talking about here. It is true there is disney, netflix, apple TV etc, but, as far as I know, this is all on demand. What I'm looking for is BBC 1, BBC2 ITVx, Channel 4, Channel 5 and then Sky atlantic and so on to watch live with AD. This is where things are lacking, unless one is willing to pay for either EE TV, with all the issues I mentioned, or sky stream, for a highly incomplete service for the blind.
I don't think there is a solution here, aside from over paying for an under performing product. We do often do that anyway, only using 20 %of what we purchase as that is all that is accessible to us, I just hoped for more by now. Luckily this tiny violin is 100 % accessible.
I would get EE TV...
if I had a TV. I wonder if the Apple TV works with only a soundbar plugged into it?
I do have a TV, in my dining room, leening up against the wall. I suppose I could see if it still works!
Regarding apple TV working…
Regarding apple TV working without a TV plugged in, I did get a spoof hdmi dongle which was supposed to simulate a screen. It kinda worked, but trying to play Disney Plus content it was throwing a wobbly. It might be another spoofer works better but I've returned to plugging my Apple TV into my TV... Like a chump.
Not only do I fail at formatting...
I apparently fail at context. I know you said "Live television". I swear it is in you're original post. I was thinking since both AppleTV (the app/service, not the damned box) has Live television, and Hulu Plus Live has "Live television", and both claim to have AD for their live service, well I thought that while it was not the end all be all solution, it would at least be a start. 🤷🙂
some clarification about BBC catch-up and ITV
Hi All,
You usually can't watch a complete series or boxset through the iPlayer app with audio description, however you can watch a complete series or boxset through the BBC website on any device. I did this for line of duty a few years ago. The most recent series at the time was the only series available through the iPlayer app, but the rest of it was available audio described through the BBC website. I uninstalled the iPlayer app off my phone and just watched the entire thing through the website. The last series sucked by the way. Ian was so not the head of the operation. Maybe that wasn't the last series by now but, oh well. Sorry but just had to get that out there! ITV only seems to have audio description available on Android and nothing else! I mean what kind of crap is that? They should at least have catch-up on all their apps. Channel five I don't know about, and I know channel four has audio description on their on-demand app. But yes, audio description is extremely fragmented. Glad I hardly ever watch TV because I would constantly be extremely disappointed if I did. There have been a couple of things I've wanted to watch, but it didn't have AD so I thought forget that then.
Follow up
We discussed most of this before, EE Tv really is your only option at this point, it's the most accessible way of streaming live TV with AD.
The only other potential is, if you've got a Sky dish.
When my Sky contract ended, I binned my old Sky box and put the dual cable from the Sky dish into my Samsung TV.
This allowed me to have Freesat for zero pennies, complete with audio description on the live broadcasts.
The Samsung TV was great with it's spoken navigation and I used it for the live Freesat, changing to my Apple TV box when I wanted to stream Netflix or whatever, due to it's class leading compatibility.
I believe that sky stream is…
I believe that sky stream is the best for live TV as, from my understanding, the streams that EE receive for Now TV are not quite complete. Some have AD, the important ones, but not all as the streams they patch into are not all the same.
I think I'm going to go stream and hope for improvements. At least you get netflix thrown in. I might also see if there are any deals I can get if I call in. Still, it's another example of the blind tax. To get something even partially functional, we have to spend more than sighted peers.
awfully complicated
It is awfully complicated, though in saying this I know I run the risk of Ollie's agreeing with me again - a risk he would rather avoid as he has intimated elsewhere. Personally, I find that a combo of skyQ (nbot dead yet), audiovault and iPlayer generally meet my needs, though it is frustrating that you don't get the on demand content audiodescribed. SkyQ will give you audiodescription if you record the live programme to the box, but not if you download it. that's annoying when sighted Mrs Bingo and myself want to watch a box set together.
Which election debate, exactly, was worth watching? I've seen three of the four (I missed the one that wasn't a debate but two separate goings over by the not altogether able beth rigby). They all showcased the talents of party spin doctors, excelling in their mediocrity. election campaigns used to be far more informative without them. bring back the days of 2005 and earlier, I say. Waht a shame there isn't a user called Nick who hasn't already made this point as it would have enabled me to round out my contribution with perhaps the most famous of utterances from our election debates: I agree with Nick.
Audiovault
This is what I use when I feel an itch to watch a film. Netflix, when I want Stand-up comedy or Anime. I know, weird mix, but there ya go.
And Bingo, don't, even, get me started on the rediculousness of political debates. We may be a sea apart, but I bet the idiocrocy is a global epidemic.
Like COVID. . . 😷
I agree with Bingo!
Audio Vault is great. I have no guilt whatsover when I use it. I'd be hapy to buy stuff AD, but it is next to impossible.
The BBC drive me mad, they have this amazing A-Z of AD titles on iPlayer, but you can't watch them on it! It is bonkers - switch to Safari on the same iPad, go to iPlayer and you can watch them. But you have to delete iPlayer the app, otherwise it opens that and you get no AD! Roar!
iPlayer now has the audio…
iPlayer now has the audio option in catch up programs on IOS where you can switch on audio description. Something like audio and subtitles whilst it is playing. ON apple TV it is still a different program so you start it playing, back out, go to the right and hit play with audio description.
It's really badly done, but it's there. I'm just watching inside number nine with it on on my iPhone.
Sky Stream
If you go with Sky Stream, be prepared for a frustrating experience with the hardware puck.
You might be okay if you don't need the screen reader, otherwise you're going to end up spending half your life waiting between actions, that's if you can even get the screen reader to work in the first place.
I had to send my first box back as it just wouldn't work with the speech enabled.
It really is the worst piece of technology I've had the displeasure to deal with in my 20 years of sight loss.
As a side note, I've not had any problems with the Now channels through EE TV, they all work fine, with associated AD tracks.
You also get Netflix as part of the package with EE, the same as Sky, but cheaper.
Sky stream
They tried to flog me Sky stream last year when they messed up my SkyQ box by giving me the wrong information. This was something they couldn't fix for weeks and weeks, entirely of their own making. Blimey, am I glad I said I didn't want anything to do with sky stream! When I moved house earlier this year they tried again - if you take Sky stream, sir, you'll not have to wait for the engineer to come over and install your dish...you could have Sky a whole 24 hours before the engineer appointment we've booked for you! again, I resisted. Perhaps that's why, when the engineer did visit, he moaned about the route he would have to take the cables. Can't see why. It was very straightforward, although it took him perhaps 10 minutes longer than it would have done had our roof been at a slightly different angle. what a shame they did not think of such matters when the property was built 70 years ago! Seriously, to be fair to Sky they do at least have some nice folk working in accessibility and they do eventually manage to achieve things. I get the sense that quite often they're met with a degree of resistance. I'm sure Sky Stream will get there, but it seems a long way off at the moment.
Wow! I didn't know they still have the dishes!
I thought it was all wired now. A friend of mine has Q - she says it is the best to. The other one, Glass I think it is called, is not accessible at all.
I believe it is the same…
I believe it is the same screenreader, though with the same issues, as the stream puck.
I think my issue with EE is two fold, I can only get one apple TV which will work with all live channels, though I will ask them if any adjustment can be made, and I'll have to take a big hit on my broadband. I'm currently paying £20 for 150 mb symmetrical, when considering that, that I'll need a BT engineer visit, the cost of the whole package, just to get audio description on a handful of channels, seems pretty ridiculous. It does sound like a very neat setup, but the only real value I'm gaining is audio described channels for and extra cost and lower internet speed.
Does anyone know if the EE mini hub puck thing, is blind usable? I'm guessing not.
I was also wondering if something like a freeview box work in a similar way with the now TV channels. I'm doing some digging.
q versus Plus
Q is definitely better than Plus, though Plus did get reasonably accessible in the end. It just took quite some time. there was that interesting situation, between about 2012 and 2018 I think, where if you wanted an accessible Sky Plus experience you were far better off using an app called TV Planner Remote for sky. Given that was put together by a third party developer, it could do a hell of a lot with the sky Plus box. The official app caught up eventually. Q is ahead of where Sky Plus ever was, though as others have said, it won't talk if you're trying to watch Prime, or YOutube or that sort of thing. Mrs Bingo has signed ours into her own accounts as she has her own in-built screen reader - her eyes.
I must admit, I haven't done any digging when it comes to other accessible solutions. This is because I'm well immersed in the sky ecosystem and, broadly speaking, I'm very happy with what it gives me. If I didn't really like sport, I might be looking elsewhere. The upshot is I don't know much about EE Tv and so on. Perhaps it's something about which I should be more curious.
So, just to keep you updated…
So, just to keep you updated, for any who care, I've ordered sky stream as it's on a deal for £22 a month. This includes netflix with adds, so is relatively £17 a month and that gives me the entertainment package, discovery plus apparently and, the thing I really want, live TV with audio description. I"m confident that sky will continue to improve their offering as the team is constantly working to update things for us, it is, as other s have said, slow. I'm not looking to replace my apple TV, so I will have a hybrid system. Who knows, maybe the voice control will cover a lot for me, and maybe the up next rail on sky updates with the apps I use and watch on my phone in which case I don't need to dive into the apps.
I think at £28 a month it was too expensive. Now, it equates to a pint a week and, as I no longer drink, that's easily covered. it's not an ideal solution, I am paying a blind tax for a device which I can't completely use, but I am getting all the channels with audio description and it works out significantly cheaper than EE tV.
I'll put up my impressions when 'm set up. Expectations are modest.
Cool
I'm keen to hear how it goes. I didn't bother with EE TV in the end, not enough interest here. But if I could get one thing that did all my TV needs well, I might.
To be clear, sky stream will…
To be clear, sky stream will not do everything. It'll fill in what my apple TV can't do though. I will see what can be done and can't though. I know one needs sighted help when setting it up and most likely sighted help logging into the various services. I'm wondering how well the up next playlist works because it may be a way around the app inaccessibility issue.
I think we often talk about accessibility in binary terms, but really it is a scale. I'd set the apple TV at 9.5 as there are still some bugs with it. I'll let you know what I think of stream. Last I tried it it was hovering around the 4 mark.
Across the pond
Hi,
I completely understand your frustration. It seems like both sides of the Atlantic are grappling with similar issues when it comes to accessibility and cost for visually impaired individuals.
In the US, the situation isn’t much better. For example, Hulu is somewhat accessible on my Samsung TV—it works, but not perfectly. Hulu originals offer audio description, but the live TV service falls short, with very limited to no audio description options. Plus, everything here is getting expensive as well, adding to the frustration.
We’re all dealing with the same fragmented and inconsistent accessibility features across different platforms. It’s disheartening that we need multiple devices and subscriptions just to get the same access that sighted folks have at a lower cost.
I hope that TV networks and streaming services worldwide will soon prioritize and improve accessibility for us. It’s high time they realize the importance of a consistent and comprehensive screen reader interface, along with ample audio description options.
Cheers,
Roman
As it stands the states do…
As it stands the states do better for audio description with Max and Paramount offering audio description on demand whilst the UK counterparts, Now TV and Paramount Plus UK do not. I've had to create a state's side account and am using a DNS to access content that I could easily access in the UK, though lacking AD. That's on demand though, which is not what my original post was about.
It sounds very much like we're in the same boat with live programming. There are no platforms, aside from terrestrial or dish, or specific offerings such as sky stream, that offer live TV. It also sounds like that a lot of live programming over there is moving exclusively online which, I'd imagine, fragments things even further. I know sky and comcast are now the same company. What are their offerings like? I think the sky stream puck is very similar to the hardware that comcast provide including screen reader, though I'm not sure of this with such a big body of water between us.
Sky Atlantic/HBO
Am I right in thinking that Sky Atlantic does include Audio Description at the time of broadcast?
I've been trying to find a way to watch some of the HBO shows on streaming services but as far as I can tell no one has any AD for them. I even tried looking at the Blu rays (remember them?) but I don't think they have AD either. Which is totally nuts considering they bothered to record them for the live broadcasts. I was really hoping to watch House of the Dragon, Succession and the Last of Us. In particular, considering how accessible the last of us games are, it's ridiculous that you can't watch the TV show if you need AD.
I was a Sky subscriber for many years but honestly they aren't a company I would choose to deal with again in a hurry. The only live TV I watch these days is the news in the morning and honestly I suspect my life would be better without that too.
Correct, there is AD on live…
Correct, there is AD on live TV but not currently on catchup.
I use MAX from the US to watch all the HBO stuff. It's really good as recent stuff is in 5.1 with audio description. If you want some pointers on how to set it up, drop me a message but it is quite involved and obviously has a cost. Relatively I think it is about £16 a month but they do have a very large catalogue to get through. It requires a US itunes account, the purchase of a US gift card and either a VPN or a DNS service. I use the latter as it is cheaper and is more flexible though more fiddly too.
I hear you regarding the news. I was only listening to the radio this morning and by 8 am I'd heard too much.
the attraction of live TV, for me, is knowing I'm watching the same thing as other people at the same time. I think it's probably something that adds to the joy of sport. Shared experiences are powerful things, especially in a world where people are so divided, both figuratively and physically.
HBO Max
Thanks, Ollie - that sounds like a pain. I use a Fire TV Cube not Apple TV but maybe it's also possible there. I'll have a look sometime and see. I just don't understand why it has to be so hard. I literally want to give them my money. I think it's all very well for older stuff with no AD, but it's literally right there.
I've got to a certain age where I prefer to let a series run its course and then watch it all at the end. That way I have a chance of remembering what has happened from one episode to the other. But I do get your point.
I've noticed an irritating thing on iPlayer. They released the whole series of the Outlaws on iPlayer but are drip-feeding it on the TV weekly. But only the first episode on iPlayer has AD, then they seem to update it each week presumably when the next episode is shown live. And I think I've seen this with other shows so guess it's normal on the BBC. Maybe I can't complain too much as I do get a discounted license but doesn't stop me complaining anyway.
BBC MrG
The 'excuse' I heard was that they are literally recording it off the TV to then put it online with AD. Sounds mental I know, but they said it was something to do with them having done it for so long!
Again, sounds mental.
@Assistive Intelligence.
Wow, that is crazy. I never would have thought the BBC would go down that road.
I'm not a huge watcher of tv with AD but that just seams complicated, surely there's an easier way of doing it?
You know, it's odd, blindness tehc and the way blindness stuff is shown to us is quite old, there's this with the BBC, then the talking radios and so on. I know we have AI now and there's tech being invented all the time but I just feel like we're x amount of years behind everyone else for some reason, maybe that's just me.
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Paramount+ in the UK
I've paid for this twice now. Both times I wasn't able to watch Star Trek: Strange New Worlds with AD.
Star Trek: Strange New Worlds is audio described, in english, in the USA.
I ask you, what's a girl to do?
OH, BTW, before you ask
I did email them, several times - I got some sort of autoresponder rubbish back both times.
They are useless. I name and…
They are useless. I name and shame on X all the time but get a canned response saying they are working hard to bring audio description to the UK programming... Likely story.
I just get it from the states using a VPN and a US itunes account. It's just not fair that we are geo restricted on such things. Fine if content just isn't available in our home country, but it's discrimination otherwise.
sky Stream
Blimey, reading this thread has made me realise how little televisual entertainment, beyond sport, I tend to watch these days! Used to drink it in - Monday nights were emmerdale, Eastenders and a double period of Corrie, for example. I really should watch more on demand stuff like what you fellahs are talking about. I'll be tuned in to Rishi v Keir tonight as they compete to be the weakest of the weak again.
Olly, how's your stream going? Have you received it yet? I'm interested to see how you get on with that. How the devil did you get £22.00 a month for sky, you jammy so-and-so? I sincerely hope your subscription doesn't include the sports channelse. If it does, I'll have something to say about it! I pay a good deal more than that, albeit I do get the sports channels, movie channels and BT Sport on top. Have to have the last of these, being a rugger bugger. I haven't time for all this opening accounts in other countries stuff - I suppose I'm not arsed enough about watching american shows - but I do agree it is frustrating that one has to repeatedly use the tradesman's entrance, so to speak, in order to do something so simple.
blah blah
blah, how do I delete a comment once made?
You can't.
Once it's there it's there. You can only edit it.
There is a deal on at the…
There is a deal on at the moment for £22 for the basic package for 24 months.
I'm sad to say I'm sending it back. It's just not there yet. The voice is very slow, believe it works online rather than locally. There are issues with volume, the apps are still inaccessible, though I believe they will be fixed at some point. I think it's just not there yet. Even the voice control is rather hit and miss., especially if we're relying on it.
I've just ordered EE TV and am biting the bullet with the awkwarness of changing broadband.. A nice thing about EE is that we get netflix basic, which is HD but with just one stream and without adverts. I've got 300 mbs, two devices, one apple tv and one ee box mini, now TV enterainment and cinema for 64 quid a a month. It works out more expensive than current broadband and buying packages individually, but I don't get the audio description on live channels that way. Hopefully it will turn out be to a good deal. I know it will at least be accessible.
Interesting re stream
Now that is interesting. The voice guidance on Q also depends on a broadband connection. I didn't realise this until I moved house and had TV but no broadband for about a week. NO broadband meant no voice guidance. So I'm guessing that even with SkyQ there is at least a partial element of the screen reader that is not done locally. I wonder why it works so well on Q then but not on stream? If you're only getting the basic package that would explain your very low price. I can't leave sky now - I've been sucked in. Plus I just must have the sports channels. stand up, if you love the darts.
It's probably a restriction…
It's probably a restriction on the hardware. I'd have hoped they'd future proofed the devices but seems they took a good enough approach. To be fair, the overhead for streaming vidio and audio isn't very high, a screen reader working locally is. Still, it's an impared experience.
I wish I enjoyed sports, both the playing and watching of... But it's never grabbed me though I see the joy it brings to friends, and the misery. Maybe my sport is watching those who watch sport...
Basketball
Apologies for going slightly off topic here, but I miss Basketball. I have yet to find a good enough descriptive service to enjoy it, and it has been so long since I did enjoy that particular sport that I barely remember anything about it.