Orbit q20 and Q40 announced... Qwerty keyboard brail displays
By Ollie, 19 March, 2024
Forum
Assistive Technology
Orbit have just announced a couple of new brail displays that, like the Humanwear Mantis Q40, use qwerty keyboards instead of a Perkins style keyboard. Please read more here:
Like the previous orbit brail displays, they are aggressively priced. It will be interesting to have a side by side comparison with the mantis q40 when the q20 and q40 orbits are out in the wild. I have the Mantis Q40 so will also be interested to seem what firmware updates Humanwear push to demand almost twice the price.
On paper, these sound neat. Everyone who has a Mantace seems to love it. But from what I've read here the different Braille cell technology that orbit uses seems to be hit and miss.
I like the idea of a qwerty keyboard and a Braille display together. I already have a 4th gen Focus 40 and a Logitech BT keyboard, although I don't like it.
I got my mantis through uni and, to be honest, I've not used it. I've got a little 20 cell thing I use to read books. The mantis is very windows centred and, for a very expensive machine, feels a little tacky. My smaller display is a Vario Ultra which is super nice, neat, brushed metal so, it's a pretty big comparison.
I've loved the Mantis but since I'm mostly an android guy that's a terrible fit for me. This seems like it may fill that same niche except be something I can actually use with my phone.
the thing I don't like about it is that it is a windows keyboard meaning there are no volume controls for iPad and the VO keys option and control, are split. It's just a bit weird and the plastic of the keys feels pretty cheap.
I'm tempted to sell the mantis and get something cheaper. The 20 cel Q20 Orbit does sound attractive. I really don't know if double the number of cells is worth double the price.
What's the connectivity like between the standard orbit perkins style devices and IOS? Do they connect quickly and are able to wake IOS from sleep? Might even look at just that for reading books.
I had a basic Orbit Reader, but didn’t like the slower refresh rate and the harder dots. When I was able to get my hands on an ElBraille, which includes the Focus 40, I ditched the Orbit in a heartbeat. If Orbbit could ever make a quieter display with faster refresh rate, I may be interested, but the dots on that thing after a while started to bother me. Plus, using it for radio wasn’t exactly ideal because of the noise of the sells refreshing. But that is a rather specific use case, and I know the Orbbit devices have helped a ton of people who could not get anything more expensive. Heck, I was part of that group until I met a person who had an ElBraille, didn’t like it, and it was just collecting dust, and he took an old macbook for it.
Is anyone using an orbit reader qwerty display?
I would love to know what the keyboard is like.
I use the matntis Q40 and find that I really need to smash the keys sometimes to get them to work. Can anyone compare the two keyboards? Thanks!
The keys on the mantis are horrid, as far as keys go. The whole thing, to me, feels very cheap. It's my understanding that the new computer with brail built in, the name alludes me for the moment, has a better keyboard with slightly scooped keys and it is the same on the orbit.
They can't be worse than the Mantis. I'm trying to sell mine...
Probably shouldn't have said the keyboard isn't great... I mean, it's fine. I just don't think they spent much money on a relatively inexpensive aspect of the device.
Thinking out loud, I wonder if it is possible to replace the keycaps with something a bit nicer to the touch... Hmm.
Nicole wasn't asking about the still pending Optima. Rather the shipping Orbit Reader QWERTY. It is a fair question; I've not experienced one either so I don't know. I really like the QWERTY concept of the Mantis, but it could be a bit sturdier constructed both on its keyboard and panning keys.
I had a very quick try of some of the orbit readers at Sight Village. I really liked the feel of the braille - it felt very clear to me as someone who struggles. I wondered if learning braille on something like that would be easier than on paper. Both because the braille feels more defined and easier to feel and also because I might find that I can work it into some day to day things which means I'd be more inclined to put time into it.
But I wonder - why do the qwerty versions costs so much more than the perkins layout? I get why braille costs a bit but I would have thought a qwerty keyboard wouldn't cost much.
Also, does anyone have experience with Orbit products? I heard somewhere that they may last 3 years which would be a bit disappointing for the price. Is this right?
Perhaps it has less volume so far? Or perhaps it has slightly newer internal components? Or, because they can?
Slightly off topic but I wanted to comment on your thoughts of integrating Braille into your daily routine. This is a good idea. If you haven't already I'd suggest starting simple (and useful) by labelling items that you want to identify. Perhaps you want some labels on magnetic tape to stick on cans of food. Or some plastic cards with elastic bands (they sell kits of these) that you can write on and then band to those pesky freezer bags that all seem to look the same after they're tossed in there. I also use a slate and stylus (old fashioned I know but hey sightlings use pens all the time) to quickly label the bottom of an envelope with an important document I get in the mail that I need to find later: tax document, receipt, stuff like that. This saves me having to rescan everything at a later date to find the pesky paper. (Yes I save electronic copies but sometimes you still need the paper stuff.) This could both potentially make you more efficient, and get your sense of touch more used to working with Braille.
You make a good point. I do have a braille labeller, but so far I've only really used it to label the washing machine. But I should use it more than I do.
I've heard of braille slates but never erally knew what they were so just asked chat gpt. There is something to be said for low tech devices. That's one thing I like about the labeller - it feels like something I had in the 80s.
Probably because there are more buttons. Sure you can buy cheap off the shelf qwerty keyboards but they're complete units, they aren't designed to be integrated into another unit. There's also going to be a certain amount of software redesign for any built in commands.
I wonder how much of a keyboard this will have, if it doesn't have the F keys I might think twice. In fact it's probably ANSI not ISO, I've tried that and prefer the ISO style layout.
I haven't gotten the chance to try it out but I've heard a lot of secondhand info from sources I trust. Apparently the keys are much quieter than the Mantis which, let's be honest, isn't hard. The Mantis is great in all kinds of ways but I would not want that thing clacking away in a business meeting ... that noise may be offset by Orbit's slightly louder cell refreshes, I don't know. I've also heard the Q40 is considerably bulkier than the Mantis which may matter to some.
Regarding the keys, I believe they are the same on the orbit qwerty as the Optima., which is why I referenced it. They are more scooped, according to a double tap episode I listened to.
I think there is a question here of convenience. I get that a built in brail display is useful, but you can get a significantly better qwerty keyboard, thinking Logic MX mini, and a 20 or 40 cell brail display, for significantly less. The ergonomics might not be quite the same, but the whole thing would pack down smaller and have much more versatility.
I know some will prefer full integration, but you're probably already using it with an iPhone or computer anyway. Just something to consider. I'm finding myself using my Vario Ultra 20 a lot for casual navigation and browsing on my devices and then get out my Logitech MX mini for any real typing but then, can obviously go back to reading the documents I've created on my Vario. Just an option to consider.
that being said, for education, for learning brail, which I think that these devices are designed for, they are great. Type out: Ollie is overly verbose, but very well dressed, for a blind man... And the brail shall appear, which is a very tight integration of learning.
Comments
This is interesting.
Orbit has also come out with a computer thing like the mantis q, I think that's what it's called: http://www.orbitresearch.com/product/optima/
I'll definitly be taking a look at this stuff when I can.
Like the previous orbit…
Like the previous orbit brail displays, they are aggressively priced. It will be interesting to have a side by side comparison with the mantis q40 when the q20 and q40 orbits are out in the wild. I have the Mantis Q40 so will also be interested to seem what firmware updates Humanwear push to demand almost twice the price.
Pricing?
What is the price for these?
Thanks
Orbit Reader Q20 $995.00…
Orbit Reader Q20
$995.00
Orbit Reader Q40
$1,895.00
On paper, these sound neat…
On paper, these sound neat. Everyone who has a Mantace seems to love it. But from what I've read here the different Braille cell technology that orbit uses seems to be hit and miss.
I like the idea of a qwerty keyboard and a Braille display together. I already have a 4th gen Focus 40 and a Logitech BT keyboard, although I don't like it.
I got my mantis through uni…
I got my mantis through uni and, to be honest, I've not used it. I've got a little 20 cell thing I use to read books. The mantis is very windows centred and, for a very expensive machine, feels a little tacky. My smaller display is a Vario Ultra which is super nice, neat, brushed metal so, it's a pretty big comparison.
softer cells.
The more expencive braille displays seam to have softer more paper like cells, I think i prefer orbits harder signage ones personally.
I'll check this stuff out at sight villlage when I can.
I'm excited, might be my new display
I've loved the Mantis but since I'm mostly an android guy that's a terrible fit for me. This seems like it may fill that same niche except be something I can actually use with my phone.
The mantis works on all…
The mantis works on all platforms.
the thing I don't like about it is that it is a windows keyboard meaning there are no volume controls for iPad and the VO keys option and control, are split. It's just a bit weird and the plastic of the keys feels pretty cheap.
I'm tempted to sell the mantis and get something cheaper. The 20 cel Q20 Orbit does sound attractive. I really don't know if double the number of cells is worth double the price.
What's the connectivity like between the standard orbit perkins style devices and IOS? Do they connect quickly and are able to wake IOS from sleep? Might even look at just that for reading books.
I had a basic Orbit Reader,…
I had a basic Orbit Reader, but didn’t like the slower refresh rate and the harder dots. When I was able to get my hands on an ElBraille, which includes the Focus 40, I ditched the Orbit in a heartbeat. If Orbbit could ever make a quieter display with faster refresh rate, I may be interested, but the dots on that thing after a while started to bother me. Plus, using it for radio wasn’t exactly ideal because of the noise of the sells refreshing. But that is a rather specific use case, and I know the Orbbit devices have helped a ton of people who could not get anything more expensive. Heck, I was part of that group until I met a person who had an ElBraille, didn’t like it, and it was just collecting dust, and he took an old macbook for it.
What is the keyboard like?
Is anyone using an orbit reader qwerty display?
I would love to know what the keyboard is like.
I use the matntis Q40 and find that I really need to smash the keys sometimes to get them to work. Can anyone compare the two keyboards? Thanks!
The keys on the mantis are…
The keys on the mantis are horrid, as far as keys go. The whole thing, to me, feels very cheap. It's my understanding that the new computer with brail built in, the name alludes me for the moment, has a better keyboard with slightly scooped keys and it is the same on the orbit.
They can't be worse than the Mantis. I'm trying to sell mine...
Probably shouldn't have said the keyboard isn't great... I mean, it's fine. I just don't think they spent much money on a relatively inexpensive aspect of the device.
Thinking out loud, I wonder if it is possible to replace the keycaps with something a bit nicer to the touch... Hmm.
Keyboard
Nicole wasn't asking about the still pending Optima. Rather the shipping Orbit Reader QWERTY. It is a fair question; I've not experienced one either so I don't know. I really like the QWERTY concept of the Mantis, but it could be a bit sturdier constructed both on its keyboard and panning keys.
Why does it cost so much more for the qwerty?
I had a very quick try of some of the orbit readers at Sight Village. I really liked the feel of the braille - it felt very clear to me as someone who struggles. I wondered if learning braille on something like that would be easier than on paper. Both because the braille feels more defined and easier to feel and also because I might find that I can work it into some day to day things which means I'd be more inclined to put time into it.
But I wonder - why do the qwerty versions costs so much more than the perkins layout? I get why braille costs a bit but I would have thought a qwerty keyboard wouldn't cost much.
Also, does anyone have experience with Orbit products? I heard somewhere that they may last 3 years which would be a bit disappointing for the price. Is this right?
@ Mr. Grieves: Cost
Perhaps it has less volume so far? Or perhaps it has slightly newer internal components? Or, because they can?
Slightly off topic but I wanted to comment on your thoughts of integrating Braille into your daily routine. This is a good idea. If you haven't already I'd suggest starting simple (and useful) by labelling items that you want to identify. Perhaps you want some labels on magnetic tape to stick on cans of food. Or some plastic cards with elastic bands (they sell kits of these) that you can write on and then band to those pesky freezer bags that all seem to look the same after they're tossed in there. I also use a slate and stylus (old fashioned I know but hey sightlings use pens all the time) to quickly label the bottom of an envelope with an important document I get in the mail that I need to find later: tax document, receipt, stuff like that. This saves me having to rescan everything at a later date to find the pesky paper. (Yes I save electronic copies but sometimes you still need the paper stuff.) This could both potentially make you more efficient, and get your sense of touch more used to working with Braille.
@travis
You make a good point. I do have a braille labeller, but so far I've only really used it to label the washing machine. But I should use it more than I do.
I've heard of braille slates but never erally knew what they were so just asked chat gpt. There is something to be said for low tech devices. That's one thing I like about the labeller - it feels like something I had in the 80s.
Qwerty more expensive
Probably because there are more buttons. Sure you can buy cheap off the shelf qwerty keyboards but they're complete units, they aren't designed to be integrated into another unit. There's also going to be a certain amount of software redesign for any built in commands.
I wonder how much of a keyboard this will have, if it doesn't have the F keys I might think twice. In fact it's probably ANSI not ISO, I've tried that and prefer the ISO style layout.
My friend says the keys are better than the Mantis
I haven't gotten the chance to try it out but I've heard a lot of secondhand info from sources I trust. Apparently the keys are much quieter than the Mantis which, let's be honest, isn't hard. The Mantis is great in all kinds of ways but I would not want that thing clacking away in a business meeting ... that noise may be offset by Orbit's slightly louder cell refreshes, I don't know. I've also heard the Q40 is considerably bulkier than the Mantis which may matter to some.
Regarding the keys, I…
Regarding the keys, I believe they are the same on the orbit qwerty as the Optima., which is why I referenced it. They are more scooped, according to a double tap episode I listened to.
I think there is a question here of convenience. I get that a built in brail display is useful, but you can get a significantly better qwerty keyboard, thinking Logic MX mini, and a 20 or 40 cell brail display, for significantly less. The ergonomics might not be quite the same, but the whole thing would pack down smaller and have much more versatility.
I know some will prefer full integration, but you're probably already using it with an iPhone or computer anyway. Just something to consider. I'm finding myself using my Vario Ultra 20 a lot for casual navigation and browsing on my devices and then get out my Logitech MX mini for any real typing but then, can obviously go back to reading the documents I've created on my Vario. Just an option to consider.
that being said, for education, for learning brail, which I think that these devices are designed for, they are great. Type out: Ollie is overly verbose, but very well dressed, for a blind man... And the brail shall appear, which is a very tight integration of learning.