It’s incredibly offensive to me that these so-called accessibility specialists have the audacity to turn voiceover on when a blind/visually impaired person calls in. I asked them several times why they’re not using voiceover in a meaningful way. Their response was literally that they don’t have to because they’re already trained to use it.
I’ve pointed out to them that it’s not about knowing how to use voiceover. It’s actually about needing to use voiceover. I can’t turn the screen reader off. Without accessibility activated, my iPhone and other devices might as well be rocks.
As far as I can tell, their accessibility specialists are never using voiceover in a real world case scenario. They’re definitely not using it on their own time. I have never come across anyone that is visually impaired or blind. None of them were already using voiceover when I called. Like I said, they had the audacity to turn it on after I called and then they turned it off before ending our call. And you can literally tell that the settings are all at their default. The most I’ve gotten out of them is that they might practice for like five or 10 minutes every day. And all they’re doing is turning it on, just going through a couple of apps, and turning it back off.
I asked one of them how they could justify this. And they said that it’s typically what is required because they need to see to be able to navigate the devices. Again, they said they need to see to navigate through the device even when voiceover is turned on. I then pointed out that if I called freedom scientific technical support, all of their representatives seem to be blind. At the very least everyone that I call Already has jaws turned on and are using it to their specific needs and settings. The accessibility specialist couldn’t respond to that.
I don’t understand how people aren’t furious at this. They’re taking our money. And they are literally using us for marketing purposes. They can’t hire a few representatives that are blind/visually impaired and use voiceover 24 hours a day?
Like I said, freedom scientific employs blind people to troubleshoot issues and to work as engineers. When I was getting my Seeing Eye dog, I saw two trainees who spent literally two weeks blindfolded for like eight hours a day. This allowed them to not only understand how to train their dogs in a better way, they then appreciated the need for these dogs to work well. They literally put themselves in a blind person‘s shoes. Pretty much every organization that provides some service to the blind and visually impaired, encourage the idea of empathy and understanding. Thus far, Apple has decided that they have no interest in doing anything like that.
They spent all this time trying to hire all these different types of people just to say that they are diverse. Where the hell is our representation? Just once, I’d like to call Apple accessibility and come across a blind person who’s already got voiceover turned on and knows exactly what I’m talking about when I point out that there’s some bug that’s making my life much harder.
Comments
Not everybody can beta test
not everybody is going to be able to beta test. There are language barriers. There are barriers with dexterity. There are barriers with understanding how to use a device and software. People have a right to be upset. They have invested their time and their money in these devices. More over also invested in the overall ecosystem. It’s not so easy to just go to a different platform. I have personally invested something like $5000 in audiobooks And textbooks and other books and media over the past 14 years. These things on transfer to android or Microsoft. I’m not willing to give these things up. And at the same time, I’m not the one who is going on websites and on TV to say that I am committed to improving accessibility. Apple is doing this. They are using the blind and other disabled people as a way to convince the average consumer that they are good and nice and have positive values. That consumer is going to take that and decide to buy these devices and invest more in the ecosystem and trapped themselves due to what sometimes comes off as a lie. If they’ve decided to commit to something. Then I’m not OK with them doing it halfway. Especially because they’re using someone like me or the idea of someone like me to make more money. I’m not here as an advertisement for them. But since they’re gonna do it anyway, then I’m gonna hold their feet to the fire as much as I can.
People aren’t being negative at all. They’re venting. They are trying to figure out a way to get around these difficult issues. They want to be heard. They want to be acknowledged. How does leaving a comment like people are b**ching and moaning help anything? Apple is not wonderful. Apple is a corporation. They have done in our continuing to do a lot of things that hurt other companies and other people. And it’s not just people on this website complaining. People have been screaming about improving for years. Larry David, just made a funny video about it. People are upset that they can’t even use Maps properly. As a whole, Apple is a successful company. But they’re not a great company.
Why I buy iphones every year.
In essence, I’ve gotten into the habit of doing it. One good thing about Apple products is that they are saying as premium and tend to retain higher value. So I am able to sell my phone at a relatively good price and invested in the new iPhone. I tend to work very hard and for the most part, my life is committed to, helping others. Getting a new iPhone is one of those things that I get to do for myself. Although lately, I’ve been wondering if it’s even worth the investment. Truthfully, if much better accessibility set up came into being, I’d absolutely leave Apple. I did just say that I’ve invested a lot of money on audiobooks and other media. That can be really frustrating because I sometimes believe I’m stuck in the Apple ecosystem. Sure there’s ways around that.
Buying a phone.
It really isn't worth buying a new phone every year, just cause you have the money doesn't mean you need to spend it.
If you have audible books and would like them converted to MP3, there's online converters, you do have to pay for them though but i'd recommend them over the apps simply because they're not fully accessible.
A new phone company, yes please.
Honestly, I'd love for a new contender to come along and maybe one day they will, perhaps they'll even be amazing.
All I can say is, let's see what the future brings.
We do have a right to complain, personally I'm just a bit lazy, who knows, perhaps I'll use my big boy voice one day :P
Accessibility Marketing
I'm not going to get into most of the points on this thread, but one in particular stuck out to me.
The perspective that Apple uses the disabled community/blind people as, essentially, props for marketing. The issue that I have with this perspective is that, as much as I hate to say it, the average user doesn't care about accessibility. Why should they? It has no impact on how they, personally, use their devices. So hearing that sort of messaging is absolutely not going to be the factor that talks them in or out of buying from a certain brand, unless they have some tie to it (i.e a disabled relative.)
Gar
It is relevant because essentially it’s making them look good. The average user doesn’t care about accessibility. But they do care that their grandmother might need it one day or their uncle or whoever. It also puts them in a space where they can say look how awesome we are where providing this Thing at no extra cost. You can trust us. We are a company that has good intentions. And stuff like that works. Apple didn’t make their devices and software accessible because they believe in humanity. I believe there’s something like 15 million blind people in America. I don’t know the numbers for the world. But even if they tapped into let say 10% of that, that’s 1.5 million people that they’re making extra money off of. And then like I said, They get to say we are a company that focuses on making these devices so simple that everybody can use them and we are so great and we are so awesome and we’re so friendly blah blah blah
Too high of an expectation…
Too high of an expectation here. I honestly think that apple do need to use accessibility features in some real world situations to test things but I'm not at all a fan of it being a foal time thing. And personally 5 hours may be a tad to much. 2 or 3 aught to be enough. Yeah I'm with everyone here regarding beta testing. If you want stuff fixed quicker, beta test. hell, even the developer betas are free now from what I hear so before going on to public betas, test dev builds! So yeah. Beta test, beta test, beta test! I can't stress this enough judging by some of the negative, winy posts I'm seeing regarding apple bugs on here.
This post is absolutely ridiculous
Your post seems quite absurd, and it reminds me of the ridiculous content I used to encounter on AppleVis forums. Such posts led me to stop reading the forums altogether. Moreover, if the accessibility team relies on VoiceOver, how can they engage in meaningful screen shares without vision? It's crucial for discussions to have substance, and a more mature approach would benefit everyone in these forums.
agreed with the last comment
finally someone else who agrees with me on the need for beta testing! to those who think they can't sighting having only one device, just plain afraid. most of iOS is in the cloud these days, with autamatic daily backups, so nothing to lose. with iPhones being USB C, any significant data can be transfered to a USB Hardrive. so what if something brakes. you can always go back. I've been saying this for years that the blind need to beta test. I'm always refereencing AppleVis, as a site where blind people complain about bugs. who cares if you have only one device. I always did, always beta tested, and came out the other side with tuns of reported bugs being fixt. If we can promote beta testing on this site more, and reasons to do it, the AppleVis forums will be a better place, more would beta test, and bugs would be fixt!
Indeed. I don't do much beta…
Indeed. I don't do much beta testing at the moment because I use my phone a lot for work hehehehe but I did beta test 16 and yall may or may not remember, but there was a bug when I first tested when emojis would not read at all with Eloquence or something to that affect. so, sent in a feedback report and I'm sure that many others who were apart of beta testing at the time did as well. Yeah, by next beta build, that all was fixed and worked beautifully! This is just one out of many examples, beta testing works people! So, in short, it's not that they don't listen to us, do I agree that they could do better? Oh sure but most of the stuff for what I need to do works for me and, quite well thank you vary much. I may or may not have said this in my last post but people who expect change should ah, maybe take the plunge and download betas to their phones and report rather than wining and complaining.
I totally agree with Ekaj and Dennis Long
I totally agree with Ekaj and Dennis Long.
I absolutely love Applevis website but it is sad to see so much negativity on some topics. This site is for support.
My thots
I do try and beta test the major versions of iPadOS and report bugs, I feel some of the bugs I have eg VO getting stuck all the dam time for me might be because I have both voiceover and zoom turned on at the same time so if I need to zoom in quickly I can double tap with 3 fingers and zoom in
Access to resource, technology, information, support
The thing is, you have to remember that not everyone has reliable Wi-Fi to constantly back up their phone if something goes wrong. They might not have access to a computer, or an extra storage device. If they don't have reliable access to the Internet, they can't reset their device. When they encounter an issue, they might not have someone around them to help them fix the problem, either. They might not even be able to pay for extra iCloud storage. The device is literally their lifeline, not because they can't live without it, or don't want to live without it, but because they are in Some difficult situations. If the device breaks, or doesn't work as expected, it's going to be a major issue for them. There was a time when WhatsApp stopped working, like for an day, and most people would say, well, who cares? Use a different app, but what they didn't seem to understand was that this product was used in many countries, in parts of Africa, Asia, the Caribbean region. It's how they Stay in touch with friends and family, conduct their business transactions, keep in touch with their customers. You should never rely on one application, but it was never that easy for them. I know this might seem like a concept that is hard to grasp, or it seems like a foreign concept, but please remember that not everyone is living in a first world country, or has access to these devices. Someone might be able to buy a device today, and they won't upgrade again for another five years, or so, and that's genuinely because they don't have the money in order to do so. Maybe, the device that they want isn't selling in their country, and when you order something online, depending on where you live, it could take a while to get there. It's not like in America where you can order something and get it within a couple weeks. They don't have AppleCare, apple warranty in the traditional sense, upgrade or even payment plans. They might not even have an official Apple Store in their country. They might be able to purchase these products in physical locations, but it's much higher than the apple price, because these individuals need to make a profit. If they order the product online, if something goes wrong, that's another unforeseen circumstance that they have to deal with. Shipping could take a month, so if they need to return it, if they bought it online, that's more time that they have to wait to resolve the issue. Even if they bought it at a physical location in their country, they might not have reliable transportation. These devices are expensive, so it's likely that when they are done with a device, it's past on to another family member for them to use. Yes, you don't need the latest device, but many of them have models that are already three years old, because it's what they can afford, even if that's secondhand. I don't really know how else to explain it, but some products work better in certain countries, than in others. Don't get me wrong, I agree with beta testing. 100%. If nobody is testing the software, or downloading applications and updating the apps, how are we supposed to know if there is an issue? It's not easy for me to call apple accessibility directly, because I can't afford the cell phone charges in order to do so, but I think the company was better at responding to emails back in the day. Things have changed, and that isn't always for the better either. It's not much, but I have tried reporting issues, and took the time out of my day to send a screen recording, explaining the issue, and demonstrating the issue. Sometimes, it was successful. Other times, it was not. It doesn't seem to be all that successful now, but I do try. If I don't try anymore, it's because the bugs I'm experiencing aren't problematic enough for me to try again, or I have simply found alternative solutions to deal with it. Unfortunately, as much as I believe in standing up for yourself, we have other things going on in our life, and we can't spend our entire time on one thing, no matter how passionate we are about it. Complaining does no good, if you're not reporting it to the source, but let's be honest here, it can become exhausting, especially when you're not getting results. Yes, there are many individuals who are lazy, or don't report bugs at all, but there are honestly individuals who have tried, to the best of their abilities, and now they are tired of running around in circles. It's honestly tiring, especially when you have other, more pressing, issues that you need to deal with on a daily basis. Not trying to be argumentative here, only trying to point out why beta testing might not be a viable solution for some individuals, even if they do live in a first world country.
I agree with Scott Rutkowski and Daniel Angus MacDonald
I couldn't agree more. you are both spot on.
Are you guys sure you know what this is about?
So I think maybe the point is being missed again. This isn’t about us testing software. It’s about the so-called accessibility specialists actually living up to their title. They are not well-versed in accessibility. They don’t know what they are doing most of the time. At best, they are basic users. There’s nothing specialized about them. They are completely not used to using these devices in the way that blind and other disabled people use them. It is ultimately about empathy. As blind people, we are forced to use voiceover because we cannot turn it off. These representatives are all cited and have the luxury of being able to turn voiceover off. As far as I can tell, there is not one so-called accessibility specialist working for Apple that is either visually impaired or blind. Our sensitivity to the software is higher than them because they are only using these tools a few minutes at a time. I do not like calling accessibility, and then not even knowing that they can change the voiceover speaking voice. I don’t like calling them and then not knowing how to work around the various bugs that we are all experiencing. I do not believe that it is OK that they are surprised by bugs that are long lasting. On some level, they are supposed to be aware of the issues that we are experiencing.
How does it hurt us if they became better at their job?
Just out of curiosity, how does it actually hurt us if we push them to hire more blind people and encourage sighted accessibility specialists to actually spend more time with these devices and software? I don’t understand how that can be a bad thing. I don’t get how them being more proficient and understanding of how this software works (good and bad) Takes anything away.
It doesn't.
But I don't get what the point of this is, is it just a ranty post saying this thing isn't good and I want to blow off steam or are you going to do something about it?
I think this post has run its course
The original poster seems to disagree with anyone who doesn't agree with them. This is a pointless thread at this point. I think this topic should be ended.
I agree.
But there's nothing we can do about that apart from not respond anymore.
Dennis Long
You haven’t even answered my question. I don’t need you to agree with me. I just don’t want you to bully somebody that has an idea that doesn’t go along with what you think things are supposed to be. You’ve literally been hammering me since the beginning just because I’m saying that people that call themselves specialist could use accessibility software more consistently.
Not the first time I’ve been bullied on this website
Something like 11 or 12 years ago, I put out a post stating that it would be interesting if, instead of having standard touch typing, Apple could implement touch typing. Pretty much just putting your finger on a letter or number, lifting it, and having it typed. People on this website annihilated me for that. They said it was a terrible idea, they said we already had standard touch typing, that there was no point to it, that I was wasting everybody’s time, that I was stupid, that I had no right to make such a suggestion, etc. And then Apple randomly came out with touch typing as an option.
Well, everybody on this website suddenly thought it was a wonderful idea. And Apple was so forward thinking, they cared so much about the blind community, and blah blah blah.
I think the post is still on the website somewhere if you dig deep enough. Essentially all I’m really saying is that I’m no stranger to people on this website bullying me and other people. The users do not like change. They don’t like different ideas. They don’t like anything that breaks the status quo. And I emailed my thoughts about accessibility specialists in the issues I’m seeing. Ultimately, if it gets adopted and these representatives end up focusing more on, not only using accessibility software, but understanding all of its little intricacies. Then I guess the situation will be improved. And then the same bullies will Emme turn around and say what an awesome idea. Apple is so great. They are going to make our lives so much better blah blah blah.
Perfect world
In a perfect world yes those so call experts would make time to use VO at lease for several hours a day to keep checking the iOS for bugs and just to use. For example one of the person who work with JAWS in freedom scientific who is sighted and work with jaws for more than 30 years he use jaws and the screen off. He was the gentleman who did the annual meetings and share what is new in jaws. Apple issue is that there is no communication between those of us who report bugs and those who take report and share them with those in charge of fixing it. Also accessibility bugs are not a priority compare to bugs that sighted people report.
I wonder what it really takes to be a "accessibility specialist"
And what it gets you. Do you get paid more, or just a job title with more work expected of you? If you want to understand the performance, you have to understand the incentives.
Chris Hill
Good question. Does Apple have a certification for VO? If you call yourself an expert with jaws you have to go to training and get a certification. I believe is the same for NVDA but I might be wrong. After all she who should not be name can call her self also VO expert.
Ash has some good points but…
First thing I would like to say is that I do not even for an instant believe that @Apple is using us as marketing tools.
They actually have voiceover on every product they develop. This includes Apple TV phones tablets, their new VR headset, etc.
When I call an accessibility Department which is also customer service. I hope that they would send me to the appropriate person.
I believe that Apple uses @Salesforce as their customer relationship management service.
And Salesforce has great tools for auto assignment rules.
Escalation rules.
And case assignment rules.
There is no reason why when we call that Apple , their customer service reps cannot send our particular case to the appropriate individual for handling that issue.
If I call Samsung about my TV
Their customer service reps send me to the person that knows about the TV.
If I call Toyota because I have an issue with the car
(By the way, I don’t drive so I won’t be doing that.)
They will send me to the correct customer service agent to deal with that particular issue
So you have some valid points?
I feel that some people on this list are being a little judgy and they should stop doing that.
We all have the right to vent and express our opinions.
And as I thank you for sharing this information although let me tell you this is taking a long time to read to this point , just keep your mind open and let’s work together to try to make apples Customer Service a little better for all
Nikola’s spot on
I can’t agree with Nicholas comments more. The original past is ridiculous. As already mentioned, the accessibility specialist have to know a lot about each of the different assistive technologies available. If the original pastor express their views to the accessibility specialist, and the way they have here, I’m sorry for the Apple worker. Empathy works both ways, and showing empathy to an individual, isn’t restricted to living exactly in the other persons footsteps. The accessibility specialist can be as enthusiastic and interested in the topic as they like, but if they’re employer doesn’t give them the time and resources then what can they do. They need to pay their bills. The first attitude is only going to wear in it those we want support from. The customer isn’t always right. As already said, freedom scientific specialises in assistive technology. The $100 per year offer isn’t available to everyone unfortunately. I feel the pasta has shown our empathy and understanding of other posters comments, who in certain cases, will similar experiences to the original pastor. I could rant on about this all day so I will end it there. Great conversation though.
I generally agree with this post.
I don't expect the employees of Apple's accessibility department to use Voiceover full-time; I'm aware there are other accessibility features that are equally important and that need to be learned and tested. But I do feel like they need to spend a significant amount of time working with these accessibility features. What they're doing now just isn't enough, because we have bugs that absolutely wouldn't be accepted if they existed for sighted people. I think someone already gave this example... but there is no way a bug affecting focus would continue to exist for sighted people. When they tap somewhere on the screen, they expect what they tapped to be activated. They don't have to worry about tapping someone's name in the recent call log and calling the wrong person (yes, that bug still exists for many of us). When scrolling quickly in many apps (Safari and Facebook come to mind), Voiceover still has a slight stutter, where a syllable of the previous line is often repeated before the current line is read. The idea that Apple is doing an awesome job with accessibility is laughable. It was true at one time, but that time has passed. I've continued with Apple so far because of the amount of money I've invested in apps over the years; I'd rather not have to start all over again. If that weren't the case, I'd be exploring other options.
Brooke
Agree 100%.
Surprised to see so much controversy here
If we had AppleVis statistics that rank threads by number of comments per day. I'm sure this post would be near the top. And who would've ever thought that a post expressing a desire for Apple employees to ensure its features work properly would create so much controversy? We would all benefit from the improvements in quality. Not just VoiceOver, but any feature Apple has unveiled over the years. Wouldn't it be nice if I could reliably share a clip-board between my Mac and my iPhone, for example.
it's not bullying.
I've given you ideas as to what you can do, work at apple, i've even asked what will this post lead to in the end, and so far you've just basically told me that we don't need to know what job you do and haven't answered my post about if this is just a rant or is it going to go somewhere.
If it's just a rant that's fine, rant away, but I thought you were going to do something about this by the way you are so passionate about it.
Either way, this really will be the last post I make on this thread, it's not really going anywhere so I'll leave it.
Rant incomming
Yo
People on hear are so closed minded, when ever i or others say something new or different there are people like denace that come on and wine about how apple is the best and blaw blaw, wow really? Come on guise
Wow, Whathe the flip?
I understand having sight is good so they can understand what the bug is, but they should at least hire some blind people who are very familiar with accessibility and the possible bugs with it.
Not putting down what Apple actually has done
In truth, I am extremely happy that I live in a time where I have so much accessibility. I did a 2 1/2 hour presentation earlier and I pretty much just had my AirPods, my iPhone, and the document I wrote up. It says a lot that I was able to do that long of a presentation with just my phone. Thankfully, everything was easily reachable, and I had access to all the information I needed to reference.
In the end, my life and the lives of many people around the world have been improved by voiceover. It is very buggy at times. And it is extremely usable in many situations despite those bugs.
So I can acknowledge that there has been some good and that there are good people working at Apple. And I can acknowledge that there are a lot of frustrations and that there need to be some real improvements.
The thing is, I want there to be understanding on both sides. I don’t want to keep coming across someone that will say they don’t know or they’ve never come across these issues before. If they are a specialist, then it is important to try to live up to that title. Some of these bugs are so present that it’s almost impossible to miss them.
Empathy is really important. A few people have mentioned that discovering a fix for a bug can actually be very challenging. That is very true. I would never simplify or put down the hard work that software engineers do. All I want is there to be a greater level of empathy for what it’s like to be a blind person. These accessibility specialists have the luxury to just turn voiceover off and not think about it. I wish I could do that. I have to have it on and because it’s on all the time, it’s very hard to miss or ignore any of the bugs. If some of the specialists could do the same, maybe it would help them to understand why we get frustrated and why we approach them with such urgency. As it is, the accessibility specialists operate with the mindset of how voiceover is supposed to work. They are not operating with the mindset of how voiceover actually works.
Rantings & Ravings
This comment has been removed by the moderators as it contained egregious personal attacks, highly offensive language, and violated several other of the AppleVis community posting guidelines. As a community, we should strive to maintain a respectful and inclusive environment where everyone feels comfortable expressing their views without fear of being personally attacked or denigrated. We may not always agree with one another, but we should respect each other's right to have differing opinions. Please keep discussions respectful, constructive, and focused on offering helpful information to fellow members. Personal insults or offensive language will be removed, and posts of this nature may result in the poster's account being temporarily or permanently suspended. Thank you for your understanding.
@Brian...
I literally laughed out loud. Twice. Your comment said what needed to be said in the best way possible!
I would actually be happy for a windows phone
Anything that could break up the dual Ali of iOS versus android would be a welcome thing. I think a windows phone would be great. As long as it is using a full version of windows and the ability to run jaws or NVDA. Narrator can be useful in many cases. And I think it’s improving. so hopefully Microsoft will come out with something very interesting with Windows 12
Internal ableism is real
So, we have blind people here, telling other blind people that we should be happy, or maybe zealously enraptured more like, to be second or third-class users of whatever technology. That Apple can't do any wrong and that if you don't like it, go to Android. To you, I want you to please go back to listening to WWDC reruns on your Apple TV connected to your HomePod stereo pair. Do you enjoy it, indeed, feel a thrill when our lord and saviour, Tim Cook, says "good morning?" Please, don't answer that. We try to be safe for work here.
Let's say I'm an Assistive Technology Trainer. Let's say one of you approaches me about an iPhone. But I use Android. But I'm the only one around that can help. So I power on an iPhone 7 that I have in a drawer for this purpose, and I use Samantha at 30% speech rate, cause I've only been using AT for like a month or two, and type by swiping from one letter to the next and double tapping the one I want, and swiping to the next one. How would you feel? Would you enjoy working with me? Seriously? Cause if so, your standards are way too low. And this is the issue, right? We degrade ourselves so much, that we're happy with the scraps we're given. I'm not saying we can always get equitable outcomes, but we should seriously, seriously try to at least not bully each other just because one of us is wanting our beloved corporation to do better. Do y'all know what imposter syndrome is? It's where someone who actually does great, feels for whatever reason like they're a useless, inadequate, pile of trash. So when people are told that their views don't matter, that they should just switch to Android if they hate Apple so much, and that actually Apple is great and the person doesn't see it, those people are bringing that person down. That person might be great at technology. But maybe they're doing things wrong. Maybe the Mac actually *does* work well. Maybe those focus issues are all in their head. Maybe they're stupid after all. Maybe they just shouldn't comment anymore and leave things to the people that know best. Maybe they're actually bad at their job as an accessibility specialist, or analyst, or trainer, or teacher and don't represent the blind community well. Maybe everyone else is just born smart, and they'll always be a low-class blindie.
So, let's please attempt to try to find it within ourselves to be excellent to one another. This idea that Apple can do no wrong, or that accessibility teams shouldn't have to know what they're talking about, would get people laughed out of any sighted community. Ban hammers have been used for less.
People doing tech support who are specialists in an area should be able to competently help people who are also in that area. And if the accessibility team of maybe 20 people can't do that, they should be divided into groups and specialize further. If they are not, then this isn't a good system, and should not be praised as such.
On beta testing, someone always trots out the idea that 5% of blind people beta test, no matter how long ago this was said, or by whom it was said. So, how has this changed in the, likely, several years since this was said? More importantly, how does that compare to the number of sighted people who test? Let's say that 5% of sighted people test. Let's say they submit feedback too. So, now developers have to sift through tons and tons of feedback, to find ours. Then, one of the hopefully many quality assurance people in the hopefully large accessibility team takes a look at it. Well, if they're as competent at their jobs as we've seen that the tech support team is, they may not even know *how* to test the issue, or they may not test it at all and mark as done to score some number-go-up points.
So, before you go and confidently snarl at someone that your reality is their reality, that you aren't having any of their issues, implying that it's in their head, or they're holding it wrong, please attempt to try to attempt to work up the motivation to be human, and not do that. It should be beneath you to treat another blind person like that. You don't know where they are in their life, in their journey with blindness, or in their journey with Apple devices. Oh yeah, and just because we're *only* blind, doesn't mean we're less than other groups of disabled people. We deserve what we pay for. We do not get these phones for free. Apple is, indeed, not a charity. We pay for these phones just like everyone else. We should be getting the same level of competent development and support. Whether they like it or not, since Apple creates its own screen reader, its own Braille drivers and subsystems, its own magnifier, ETC., that makes them an AT company. It may not be their primary function, but neither is the company that owns HIMS. So, Apple laid in their bed of closed-off ideals of "yes, we're Apple, at Apple, here in Apple Park, we can make a great screen reader while also juggling all our other number 1 priorities!" So now, they have to lay in it. This is their mess, and it's not one that will be helped by people in our own community, possibly begging for brownie points from Apple, debasing themselves by pushing others down for their valid points and ideas. Do better.
Ash, I'm proud of you for standing up here and giving your thoughts. More people should do that. We do *not* need a single voice that shouts "Apple can do no wrong" all the time.
This Topic is Now Closed
All,
This topic is now closed, due to repeated instances of flagrant disrespect towards members of our community that were expressed in several posts throughout this discussion.
As a community, we all need to work together on expressing differences of opinion in a way that critiques the idea and does not attack the person who presented it. My first reaction upon reading Brian's comment above was that I did not think it was possible for someone to single-handedly insult and denigrate so many people in our community in a single post, but here we are. This level of disrespect directed towards members of our community is an outrage, and anyone who cares about AppleVis and what we strive to accomplish here should read that post and ask themselves, truthfully, if this is really what we want for our community. We can and must do better.