With apologies for reposting the below, which I initially appended to a thread about IOS 17.2.1 but I am not sure it registered that prominently. Anyhow, here goes:
If anyone has any idea what to do about this could they please help? Even if it's been said elsewhere on this site and I've missed it, help would be appreciated and I apologise for asking again. The issue where my Siri voices are deleted after a battery charge seems to happen much more regularly recently. I thought setting my Siri voice to the same one as I use for Voiceover was a work-around. It worked for a while but now it's no good at all. Does anyone have any ideas It's getting very, very annoying to say the least. Yes I could use a different voice and I probably will have to if this goes on, but apart from that—any work-arounds or solutions? Using an iPhone 13 and UK Siri voice 3 for both Voiceover and Siri. If these voices get debbleted again in the next week I'm stuffed as travelling with only mobile data or free wifi which wouldn't be man enough to redownload.
Comments
Andy, that doesn't work
Speaking as someone who has credibility coming out of his ears, who neither likes nor dislikes ash Rain, who made no assumptions as to ash Rain's gender but who, nonetheless, is disgusted that Ash Rain thinks the split infinitive is acceptable, let me begin with an apology: Andy, I'm very sorry not to have responded to your email and I genuinely appreciated the contact. I did try your workaround, but unfortunately it turned out to be a doesn't workaround. If some of you try and it does work, hurrah ffor that! alas for Bingo, it's either the bingo Model or the Norway Model (imagine the trouble I'd have got into for suggesting we adopt a Norway solution five years ago!). anyway, andy, if there's one thing with which I would not want to be asssociated it is discourtesy, so apologies again.
Now, turning back to this Siri voices issue, this thread has achieved several very important things:
1. Highlighted that the problem exists for many of us;
2. Led to the Bingo workaround;
3. Led to the Norway-style access to the Single Market workaround;
4. Led to the andy Lane doesn't workaround (subject to further evidence);
5. Led to the Mister Kane experiment, which I have tried;
6. Come a lot closer to isolating where the problem might occur, by process of elimination.
7. Been a very entertaining and convivial discussion, for the most part.
8. Led to what I thought was a splendid Norwegian afFjord joke at the end of my previous post, which everyone subsequent appears to have ignored.
and, there's still more to come! This thread and this bug are being taken seriously. what I have said previously is not simply hyperbole. I've found it very helpful, for one thing.
Andy's idea
I am doubling down on Andy's idea, that maybe it is only affecting those who use multiple voices. So in that respect, I have switched from Siri Voice 1 to 4, for both Siri and VO. Now my iPhone is charging with VO active and signed in from a reboot.
Time will tell. . . stay tuned~
Entertaining and useful indeed
I love it Bingo Little.
On another note I do care if people think I'm a woman or a man.
I wonder what you all think when reading my nick/username al-Salil.
Yep, it is actually an Arabic word grin.
Anyways, thank y'all for this useful discussion but also very entertaining.
I wish my English was even better but I've picked up a few new words here and there during this thread.
I wish everyone knew Norwegian cause that would make life so much easier (tears of joy).
PS: I don't google translate from Norwegian to English -- all I write comes directly from my brain that have some understanding of the English language.
PS2: toggling off VO before charging still seems to work for me though.
Thank you, Brian and al-Salil
For me the main concern is the Siri voices being removed/ deleted from Settings/ accessibility/ spoken content/ voices
Siri voices downloaded from that path are used in the shortcuts application where there is a speak text action. I am just using Samantha for VO, which is downloaded from Settings/ accessibility/ Vision/ VoiceOver/ Speech
Thank you for understanding and being empathetic to my situation al-Salil, you sound like someone from Arabia in that case Shukran.
Someone mentioned in this thread that they did the experiment I suggested, do you remember the results and can you share them here?
P.S. restarting your computer and your brain helps refresh memory just like a Gold Fish
Think we need more moderation and to end this thread/agree withn
Hello,
I think we need a moderator on these threads, and if they get to be nonsenseical like this one took off to at times, they need to be deleted/shut down. I also agree with Ash Rein about contacting Apple Accessibility about this directly, not fill up pages and pages of this forum for this even if it goes off topic. In other words, I think we need a moderator, just like on the groups.io mailers like that for Windows 10. other comments can be in everyone's inboxes, and I, too, am sorry for breaking the topic into others.
With time and more beta testers
I haven't had the Siri issues, because I don't use that voice, being as there are a ton of options in any language I speak or choose to use. However beta testing, Apple accessibility reports, call or email will help this. As for the moderator, unless something is really off the trail, they'll just email the person saying their post has been removed. I wish we had the ability to delete our own posts edit the comments so that I can be more of a functioning member of society. I'm sure the next IOS update will have something and if not blame apple. Apple's stretching themselves to thin with i think seven systems.
Nothing wrong with anything on this thread
As he who created this thread, I don't object to anything on it whatsoever, including the comments that it should be shut down. There's been nothing inflamatory, violent or otherwise hectoring on here, not from what i can see. Some of us are still discussing the issue at hand! To have all these merchants come along and try and bring the curtain down on that discussion really isn't fair. besides, a lot of folk tend to classify as nonsense things that they don't understand. I bet the nonsense merchants, for example, were penning mental memoranda recording instances of nonsense when I mentioned the Norway model.
Brian, do please report back on the andy Lane doesn't workaround and I hope we can convert it into a workaround. Mr Kayne, I'm very sorry but I think I misunderstood your experiment - I changed my spoken content voice and ensured everything was in order under spoken content before charging up the phone and, when my voices still disappeared, thought to myself: well, that experiment didn't work. I'm very sorry, in all sincerity, for not following your instructions when I thought I had.
Finally, to those who dislike this thread: this is a very troubling issue and it needs to be resolved. If you don't like the discussion or, God forbid, the sometimes rather jolly manner in which the discussion is being carried on, please just move on and don't call in the thought police.
Agree with discussion
I do not have this issue but I think is important for those who are having this problem. Keep discussing it and forget those who say stop. Do not enter, read or poste if you no longer like this discussion.
Andy Lane's observation related to presence of rotor languages
So interesting! This is consistent with my experience!
I also used to use only the Siri voice with VoiceOver, though perhaps notably I used the default US Siri voice 4, which I also use for actual Siri outside of VO -- and had no rotor languages set. Then I added a rotor language to try out other voices, and I noticed the problem shortly after that. My Siri voice never got deleted but the Serena (UK) voice in my rotor did, and changed to Daniel (which is the UK default voice).
In fact, my very first email to Apple accessibility about my voices deleting reported that it was the rotor language that was getting randomly deleted. Since i've grown to like Serena I set that to my primary, but kept a couple of other voices in my rotor. Serena still kept on getting deleted even as primary (as did the other voices in my rotor that weren't the defaults for their language). Of course I updated my case with Apple, sent diagnostics, etc. I never tried removing all rotor languages though. Thanks for the idea!
Received mail from apple accessibility
Dear members, I received a mail from apple accessibility in reply to mine where I stated this behavior. They want me to send logs to them. I will be doing that tomorrow my time as I only put my phone for a charge in the morning and then is when the voices are removed.
Again, it's the Siri voices under Spoken Content that are removed although they have been downloaded. Thank you Bingo Little for trying out my experiment. There are 2 issues I have identified but they seem to be really difficult to deal with. I list them below:
1. Siri voices removed/ deleted when phone is put on charge
2. VO voice, unable to delete/ remove even after changing VO to another voice
Re: Brian, do please report back on. . .
Ok, so I swapped my VO, Siri, and Spoken Content Voices all to Siri Voice 4 (US).
I did not manually delete anything.
Turned VO off, and plugged in phone to charge.
Picked up phone later, and reactivated VO.
Nothin was auto-deleted. Yes I checked all 3 locations.
However, I have found a new issue. A 2 finger swipe down does (not) activate Speak Screen.
Isn't technology wonderful?
Sorry Brian, I thought you were trying the andy Lane doesn't wor
This doesn't sound quite it. This sounds more like the Norwegian model workaround. Either way, I'm glad nothing was deleted although, as you say, tech seems to give with one hand and take with the other.
Andy's approach
As I mentioned I switched to the Siri Voice 4 (US) and did a charge cycle.
My result:
1. Siri Voice 4 did (not) auto-delete. I had this set to VO, Siri, and Spoken Content.
2. Siri Voice 1, my previous voice for the aforementioned, did in fact auto-delete. I am assuming because it was no longer an 'active' voice.
3. It is a new day, and everything running Siri Voice 4 is (still) running Siri Voice 4.
Conclusion:
I believe Andy is correct; if you only use a single voice, you should not be having issues with auto-deleting voices. However, the moment you swap and/or add voices, insanity ensues.
There is one issue that I have noticed. It does not really bother me, but I will mention for posterity sake. Sometimes, my Siri Voice in VoiceOver will go into a lower quality. Kinda how Siri sounds if you have your iPhone in Low Power Mode. This could be battery related. My iPhone is old, and could benefit from a replacement battery. 🤷🏼♂️
Thank you, that is all. 🙇🏼♂️
To clarify Andy’s work around doesn’t work.
I think Brian got it right by setting all available voices to the same then deleting any other languages from the language rotor so thats the only voice on the phone. No turning off of VO is required for Andy’s work around doesn’t work. Am I right in thinking that Brian has inadvertently tried to implement both the Andy’s work around doesn’t work approach and the Norwegian style Brexit approach simultaneously by turning off VO?
Would brother Brian be open to only trying the Andy’s work around doesn’t work approach for the next charge cycle. It makes contract nigociations far simpler and doesn’t result in any lords needing to beg for safe seats prior to the next election.
I think I’m on brand with this joke but haven’t been following close enough to know for sure so if errors have been made then please excuse.
Qualifying a clarification with clarity
With regards to my very last post above, I did in fact attempt the Andy's approach.
Without the Norwegian addition.
My result was, as it has always been; the voice I am using does not auto-delete. Any downloaded voices (not) in use (does) auto-delete.
On a side note, no more caffeine for Andy. Ever.
Siri voices still get deleted for me here in the UK.
I have just updated to iOS 17.4 public beta and only have Siri UK voice on my device. After a normal charge cycle it was deleted.
Diagnostic Logs Sent to apple accessibility
Just an update, this morning my time IST. I have sent the Diagnostic logs related to the case and the email I got to apple accessibility. 2 issues which I mentioned about earlier were recorded while the Diagnostics were being sent. They are:
1. Siri voices being deleted from Settings/accessiblity/spoken content/voices/english
2. Siri voice choppy when automation triggered
Let us see what they have to say. I am dead sure that something in VO has been corrupted and that is effecting the Siri voices
Brian is the new Kit Malthouse
Sorry Brian, but I agree with andy. Reading very carefully, as I always do, it seems to me, sir, that you have adopted a hybrid of the Andy model and the Norwegian model. So it's Norway plus. In other words, it's the Malthouse Compromise. You should henceforth be known as Kit Malthouse.
Devastated to read Malcolm's latest report. Looks like we'll be debating this one yet awhile.
Re: Malthouse
I'm pretty sure I did both the Norwegian approach, and Andy's approach. Ah well, I just know that, for my 'lil SE2, auto-delete (only) happens when I have downloaded a voice for VO, but not made it the active VO voice. 🤷🏼♂️
I think at this point, it is safe to say that experiences vary greatly on use case and device models. 😮💨
'twas ever thus
It seems to be the nature of apple bugs that they vary so much from device to device that they're impossible to squash. Hence, threads like this.
The malthouse compromise analogy, while it works splendidly thanks to al-Salil's being from Norway and having offered us a workaround, served the dual purpose of throwing a bone to the nonsense merchants.
More bugs, and I am desperately waiting for an IOS update
I have sent them my system logs that reproduce the issue with Siri voices being deleted/ removed. However, there are so many little things that happen to frustrate me in a day. Auto punctuation works, does not work, does not give a damn and trust me I speak with a New Jersey accent if you follow Nimesh Patel the stand up comedian, that is how I speak minus the giggling at my own voice/ jokes. Focus of VO keeps jumping to the status bar where the time/ battery % this happens so randomly that I can hear Mr. T shout in my ear "I pitty the fool!"
Just updated to iOS 17.4 (21E5195e) and Siri voice not deleted.
Hello,
I have just updated to iOS 17.4 (21E5195e) on my iPhone 15 Pro Max and putting the device on charge overnight my Siri voice had not been deleted this morning. I have what Apple calls UK English Siri voice three as the only voice installed on my iPhone 15 Pro Max. I charged the phone as normal from 21% to 100% and when I took the phone off charge the voice had not been deleted. Let’s hope this issue is now resolved although it is probably too early to jump to such a conclusion.
Forgive the ignorance
But what does 219E195E or whatever you said it was mean? Is this still the beta? I hope it has been resolved but I think some of us briefly hoped IOS17.3 had resolved it, only to be disappointed. don't get excited just yet.
Yes that's the beta build
Bingo, that's the latest build number. Unfortunately, I suspect this issue won't get any attention until IOS18 simply because usually bugs like this or any of them don't get fixed on a point whatever update. I hope I'm wrong.
iOS versions.
Yes the build of iOS I referred to is the latest public beta two. Should have made that clearer, sorry about that. I’ll let you know how things go as I use my device.
Siri
According to the youtube videos Apple fix issues with Siri. Maybe this is one of them. also fix issues with notification. FYI. This is beta 2. Next week it might be beta 3. I will install the beta 3 next week. I always install beta when they are close to 3 or 4. More stable.
cheers
Very helpful clarification there, thanks guys. Holger, I doubt this is one of the Siri issues to which they refer. I'm with Siobhan on this one, it's probably not on the menu until the summer. anyway I think we discovered around 15 comments or so back that this is probably a Voiceover issue. that's what the Norway plus, Malthouse Compromise tells us. and what an ingenious marriage this thread has been between Voiceover and brexit thanks to al-Salil's discovery.
Bingo Little
You will know when iOS 17.4 comes out. As they say the prove is in the pudding.
Not quite
They actually say: the proof of the pudding will be in the eating. but yes, we shall see.
Interesting Thread
Oh strange time that users are doing the troubleshooting not the developer. Apple staff should be ashamed of themselves.
Bingo Little
Yes but no one mention the second part. Just the first. Next week beta 3 should be out. I might add install it. Probably will wait for beta 4.
They do in this country
They do in this country, Holger. If you only mention the first part it doesn't make sense.
Bingo Little
Maybe for you. Majority know about it so they get it. Even Jonathan Mosen got it and agree however he did mention the second part of the saying.
Yes yes
And he also agreed with me that the whole phrase is what it is. Don't define the majority as america.
But back to the topic
Waiting to hear from Malcolm regarding developments. I forgot to implement my own workaround the other day - voices swept clean away again as usual.
Validation needed
This is again totally off the course and playing field. I am not concerned about the Siri voices being deleted anymore. I have written to apple accessibility and sent them my log files, I have also reported this on the feedback site as a bug and I now rest in piece with it until Kratos destroys the universe with his wrath!
My new challenge is that I don't hear the clicks on the passcode screen when unlocking the phone from the locked screen. Every where else I can hear the clicks when entering passwords on Safari, wanting to change Face ID etc. the clicks are heard when entering the passcode. However, not when entering it on the locked screen. All VO settings are as expected set to give me the click sound when entering passcode.
Let me know when it is Christmas
Beta 2
I for one am happy to hear that, if nothing else, someone at Apple is at least attempting to work this out.
Also, anyone else craving pudding. . . ? 😏
Bingo Little
He wants pudding.
Danial made an unwelcome return this morning.
Unfortunately, after two days of Siri voices not being deleted, this morning, Saturday the old bug has returned and my iPhone returned to using Danial after a normal charge cycle. Last night my iPhone 15 Pro Max was charged to 55% and Siri UK English voice three was the only voice installed and used by VO. This morning on taking my iPhone off charge VO was using Danial again. So it looks like we are still plagued by this issue. I will test again when a new public beta becomes available.
Something I don't understand
That's bad news, Malcolm, but not altogether unexpected. i also had a day or so when this didn't happen but it's back.
Now, something I don't understand: if, a la Mister Kayne, you're not arsed about this issueo, or not arsed about it anymore, why are you so keen to add to a thread about this issue? I mean, you're perfectly entitled to - I'm a free speech man all the way - but it does seem rather silly especially when the undertone of your comment appears to be boredom. but entering into the spirit of your comment, why do you need to hear passcode clicks? Either way, I hope they come back for you...and I'll ping you a message when it's Christmas as requested. how much notice would you like?
@Bingo Little; community support
Believe it or not I just updated to 17.3.1; no luck. Issue still not fixed.
I am bored yes, a little impatient but still like the community support I get here. At least I know that I ain't the only one plagued with this issue. Other than a few creative bashing on my comments as replies. I like to keep up with the community on what is going on with the issues I too am facing. I did plan to unsubscribe from this thread as I see no fix on the challenge by apple and we as end users can hardly do anything about it except for suggest work arounds or temporary fixes.
All good, will be unsubscribing from thread. Hope we all get our fix soon. I am struggling with a lot right now with automations and the shortcut app. I have been time and again asked to reset all settings and I am up the wall about it.
The proof is in the pudding.
I'm in the UK and whilst I've not used the expression, I too have only heard that part of it, not the hole thing. Are you sure it's not just you mr bingo man?
I think this comes down to age and location and perhaps a bit of the old class system.
This is a fun topic isn't it? We've gone from siri, to pudding, to brits being snobs, where will we go to next!
class system?
Bloody hell how did we get there? brad, my dear chap, I am working class! I cannot afford to live without I sell my labour. Or, to put it another way, I must work in orderr to sustain myself and, a fortiori, am working class. The real snobs are those who put all the lawyers and professionals in some class above the road sweepers and bus drivers of this world. No no, we're all working class so let's not set up artificial ceilings, ideas above one's station and that sort of thing.
The proverb dates back hundreds of years and means that, however good a suet pudding might look, appearances can be deceptive and the proof of how good it is will be in the eating of it. the proof of the pudding will be in the eating. the proof is in the pudding might be what they say round your way, and Holger's way for that matter, but it misses the point.
Yes I agree, it's a jolly interesting thread. I am very sorry that Mister kayne has proved one of its casualties. But I did say I wished him well in the password clicks conundrum, which I do. meanwhile, I'm sheltering behind the Bingo workaround for the foreseeable future and hoping I don't have a scenario where I have to simultaneously charge and use my iPhone.
And with that, back to work! bingo's labour comes at a hefty price but that does rather mean he ought to get on a little quicker than he is sometimes wont to do.
Bingo Little
As Reagan use to say "There he goes again". Working class? Social worker. Did grew up where my grand mom own land and she was well known. Long live peple and like writers in scifi say, "a good lawyer is a dead lawyer". Maybe iOS 18 will fix the issue for all of you who are having issues. Yes, this mean Bingo to.
Thanks for the lesson old chap.
I would write a whitty, ok, my version of whitty, response but I have a damned infection in my armpit of all places so whit has gone to be replaced with, holy crap, who knew your armpet could be so damn itchy? Well, me, I do now.
Thanks for education, long live worker people, hura hura god kill the king and all that.
But Siriously, without workers the top brass, do people still use that expression? Wouldn't have anything.
I don't know why I mentioned class in my last post, meh, you know what, I'm blaming the infection! Ha, an actual excuse that is bassed in reality.
I'm off to eat my ox flavoured crisps, siriously Bingo, if you're a fan of crisps, try real ox, they're amazing and only for about a pound fifty, the bag is kind of small but worth it.
Siri, Class, and Pudding
I'm using the betas now on all the platforms (Mac, iOS, Watch) and, so far, touch wood, nothing is happening, in a good way. All the voices I downloaded are still there, even those that aren't selected as Siri voice, default VoiceOver voice or aren't in my language rotor. Maybe, if it's not a problem for you to risk it, using the beta could be an option. At the very least you'll be able to feedback on it to Apple if it goes wrong. What a world we live in, that we are both Apple's customers, and its quality assurance team, eh?
I always went with "The proof is in the pudding", too. I thought it was a reference to the finding of pennies in the suet, rather than its quality. Happy to be informed or educated to the contrary, though as it seems largely to be a meme more than anything, it's probably not all that consequential, anyway.
I too tend to subscribe to the Marxist view of class, there being no other real identifiable material traits that would otherwise explain the class hierarchy than command of property and capital in the absence of the sale of one's own labour power, however it's unarguable that the working class is stratified, and what we would now call "the precariat" (people in insecure work, of whatever description, including newly-graduated white collar workers) enjoy a different standard of living from those in the "professional/managerial" class, or "the sallariat", who are able to profit more directly and materially from their labours, to live longer, to exploit those lower strata in the working class either directly through employment or indirectly through speculation, and to reproduce that privilege in their own offspring. There is clearly a need for class solidarity against the capitalist class, but I would hope that this does not preclude aspirations for equality among our own class. Class, and material conditions generally, are a necessary but insufficient way to understand the human imperative for equality. Increased social awareness and the general rise of social liberalism, the changing nature of work and the rise of the socialised service sector, better education, and the use of the Oxford Comma are all important ways to understand what is now contemporarily, but somewhat unfortunately, thought of as "the middle class".
But, of course, you knew that already. Besides, this is AppleVis. :)
beta 3
Wait for the beta 3 that should come out this week.
the Oxford comma
I have to say, Sebbie, that nonly did you mmention it, but you deployed it with great care and skill. Pudding, class, and Siri.
One only put pennies in a Christmas pudding. it's still the proof of the pudding shall be in the eating.
I shan't respond to the paragraph about class lest I'm told orf for going off-topic. suffice to say, there are some very rich plumbers and Tube drivers out there, who earn possibly more than I do in a managerial position.
And, and, and
I am pleased that the latest version of the beta appears to embody good news. Let's just see though, eh? I am not allowed to run beta software on my device - if I do that, I will be denied access to my work emails and work OneDrive resources. that is a prohibition I cannot afford.
Here we go again!
Now, who was it who said that the siri voices' being deleted bug had been fixed in IOS 17.4.1? well, I rejoiced when I heard them ssay it! that's no exaggeration - we're talking rejoicing of the first order here. He is risen indeeed, alleluia, alleluia! See what I mean? right out of the top drawer of rejoicing.
and, indeed, it seemed that this was no false trail neither. It all worked beautifully for a couple of charging cycles.
Then, however, I'm afraid the dreaded bug struck again. So, whereas previously Bingo had been going up the ladder, rung by rung, passing other climbers one by one, when he charged his phone up, make no mistake, it was up the ladder and down the snake!**
Looks like the bug is alive and well, folks. anyone else had a similar experience?
**with apologies to artisan - an acapela British folk group who were knocking about sometime in the 90s and who, for all I know, still are.