Sonoma still stopping in the middle of reading something.

either switch to or put windows on your computer if you can.

i'm not a mac user so if i'm making a mistake by writing in this forum let me know and i'll remove the post or edit it it but the more and more I read this stuff the more i'm glad i'm not a mac user.

I think the only thing people who use a mac could tell you is to go back a version, if possible, I hope I'm wrong but that's a very sirius bug.

Oh, one more thing you could try, you could phone apple accessibility, you can email them too but for something like this I'd phone them and explain as this is very sirious.

If you're unlucky, you could delete an email in a thread and hear nothing, even though the message was in fact deleted and you're now looking at a new one. This is very frustrating, on top of the issues of dealing with long threads generally, since you now have to check whether the email was deleted and where you now are in the thread.

If I delete a message in thunderbird everything is gone.

If you guys must use mac, keep phoning apple accessibility, honestly it's the only thing you can really do, oh and report the issues but good luck getting them fixed this year.

People say windows has issues but honestly I've not found any show stopping ones like you guys are describing. I had an issue with Eloquence then turned off enhanced audio affects and it was done.

I'd not be surprised if those who were life long mac users start switching to windows/lynux, apple really doesn't seam to care about you guys.

I'd highly recommend people switch to either windows or lynux, the computers are much cheeper and if you don't bash them around they can last you quite a while. I wish people could say, alright Brad we get it, you're a windows fan boy, but sadly they won't say that because of all these issues.

Brad, plain and simple, you're not a Mac user, but you're suggesting we, myself included, give up on a platform we've chosen to use to suit our needs by finding another platform. windows isn't better, nor do i think Mac or linux have something that can't be done on another platform. You, in general, are making an excuse for Apple or another tech company to say hey well they can switch, we really don't need to fix this stopping reading issue do we? It's honestly disheartening that there are people who don't champion accessibility causes but give the fat rich male CEO's a chance to just keep getting richer by not enriching anyone, not just Jon Q person, disability or no disability. we all have a choice. so using a Mac shouldn't involve being given another choice, not trying to come up with a solution. Oh I'm a better person in spite of me having an Irish temper. Yes, I read that info and if you think I'd be so uncouth as to insult a culture like that? Well, you don't want to ever suggest such again. Now, unfortunately I haven't had this read issue but I'll look out for it to see if I can re-create it or even figure out any solving reasons how to help.

Stick with intel Macs. That way you can have the best of both worlds.

Also, I wanna be a rich, fat, CEO, too!

Finally, shut up, Brad, you're a Windows fanboy.

There, said and done. 🤨

An "irish temper" is not a thing, grow up.

Getting back on topic, I don't care if you think i'm a disgrace to accessibility Siobhan because my messages are aimed at those that want a better experience for now. You can report and all that to your hearts content, hopefully it gets you somewhere, but i'm just saying for others who want to take this option it exists, that's it, nothing more.

Oh noooo, you figured me out :)

I'll take the rich part but not the fat part thanks, i'm already that and need to lose a lot of weight.

Being british we have a, well; the world can be crappy but you best deal with it, atitude. For those that want it, switch to windows and perhaps look back in a couple years and se if things are better.

you don't have to go for a £1000 laptop to get basic things done, you can but you don't need to.

This depends on your job of course but if it's spreadsheets and stuff like that then in my opppinion you could get a, oh i dunno, £600 ish laptop and would be ok, sure it wouldn't be the fastest or have the heighest ram and all that but for a basic office job, i don't think that would be needed.

As for learning, there's youtube videos, manuals and all that, I understand if you're half way through a projuct or something but I feel like if you just stick to one system because you're used to it then you'll be stuck in a loop, I can't buy another system because my job requires me to do thing x, I can't use this mac to the best of my ability because of the bugs and round and round we go.

i'm not saying you have to do it, far from it, I don't have a job and am not living your life but I just thought i'd put my thoughts out there.

Recommendations for good laptops: lenovo, I like them as they're not cluttered and I believe their lenovo app is accessible.

Hp: I have an hp laptop now and I did have to get a addon for NVDA, NVDA numbpad addon, and the hp app isn't that accessible but for what it is, it's very usable.

tosheba: I can't comment much on those because they're not availible in the UK anymore for some reason, i think I liked them very much when they were around but i can't remember why.

I'd not go with dell and whatever you do, don't go with a laptop that has the speakers in the underside of the laptop.

Pretty girls at college, much like macOS bugs, are "A dime a dozen".

Believe that. 🤨

Brad, the Windows fanboy. Has a certain ring to it. Like Nelly the elephant, but different.

Anyway my advice to you is simple: get a Mac. Then you'll be able to comment on the experience of using one, which, I feel sure, would make it clear to you why people like them. It is a sad state of affairs, but I just don't think any one OS will get you (or anyone) the whole picture. It will, at best, get you most of what you want. This is why the change to Apple Silicon represents such a big deal, because it is simultaneously the Mac's distinguishing feature and the reason you have to choose carefully when you buy your computer. I'm going to make this 2020 iMac last as long as I can, in no small part because it will run Winbloze.

And my original comment pertained to deleting a message in a thread, not the whole thread. In Apple Mail, you review an entire conversation in a single window. I was just saying, and I'm fairly sure people have experienced this, that it can happen that when you delete a message, the deletion happens, or not, without your knowing. It's just one of the many silly little bugs, you see. Windows has Outlook and Thunderbird, but I'm not sure I'd say either of them provide the same experience as Apple's classic table-based view. If anyone can say how to get an experience similar to that, skimming by subject line whilst maintaining the ability to check the sender, please say!

Oh, and as to the intemperate, pathological greed of tech CEOs, this should put your mind at ease. :)

Please excuse me while I attempt to remove my brain from my skull by repeatedly banging said skull on the nearest wall, or otherwise solid surface. . . 🤯

I did try a mac for a month or so and honestly couldn't get used to it.

Perhaps if I tried one now I could but I don't have a convincing reason to do so.

Thunderbird has a table layout where you arrow down and hear for example: bradley, hi: then you might hear my email address; I'm not sure, but you can definetly set it up so you can hear the subject line and the sender.

If that's not what you maen then I apologise.

The one thing I couldn't stand was hearing newline newline everytime I read through my harry potter fan fiction, to be fair; I think I probably had to transfer them or change a setting somewhere but I'm so used to hearing blank that it was very off putting.

I'm sure the windows vs mac thing has more to do with what you grew up with. I grew up with windows so prefer it whilst someone who grew up with mac would probably prefer that system.

Like you say, both have their ups and downs and trying out both is worth it.

I hope this issue gets solved in an update.

@Jennie A Facer, have you tried another email client? Would that make a diffirence?

I began my journey with computers as a fully sighted user on the Windows 95 platform. Over the years I upgraded to Windows 98, then ME (*eye twitch*), and finally Windows XP.

Then I lost my eyesight. And perhaps my mind. . .

I then had the opportunity to learn Mac, and I absolutely fell in love. This was OS X Snow Leopard, on a MacBook that had an Optic drive.

Anyone remember CDs/DVDs?

Nowadays, I use both macOS and WindowsOS, and am proficient enough in both, though I am more skilled on a Mac.

Point of my story is that, it does not necessarily matter what you grew up with. Rather, what you are comfortable with, enjoy using, and are more productive. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Brad says:

i'm not saying you have to do it, far from it, I don't have a job and am not living your life

That's good to know.

For those of us with jobs or volunteer obligations, staying on a platform we're familiar with is pretty important. I've already described the downtime and pain of migrating. But I don't want to sound like a clanging bell, repeatedly pointing out again and again why moving to a platform has little return on investment, so I'll stop with just sharing the link.

If you're comfortable stay on a mac, i'm not demanding you leave.

@brian yeah that's true, you have a great point.

Anyway, windows aside, is the oP here? Cause I kind of feel like we're yelling into the void a bit. OP did you try another mail app?

Oh and for those wondering, I've realised something, talking about windows on an apple platform probably isn't the best, I know, shocking, I'll try my best not to do this again and to only bring it up if others do on their own threads.

I have been seeing the Windows VS Mac battle for over five or six years now and for me this battle is getting funnier each and every day.
"Did you encounter a bug on your mac? What a shame! What are you waiting for, switch to the Windows utopia!"
I had used windows for 14 years then switched to mac. Despite the bugs I'm enjoying my Mac experience. Yes, sometimes they are frustrating, Apple Accessibility should and could do better with voiceover and braille. But the bugs are not showstoppers from my perspective, thanks.
I have a windows laptop for gaming but believe me, using Mac is more comftorable for me.
And by the way, unfortunately I'm also experiencing the same bug. On Sonoma Voiceover stops reading in middle of a paragraph sometimes. What I'm doing is press VO+A again.
The thing is, this happens randomly and there is no spesiphic way to reproduce the issue.

At least we can downgrade macOS. Which is why I will stick to Ventura until macOS 15, at the very least. 🤷🏼‍♂️

It might look like this.

That's the problem with stuff for the blind, people make it then can't update it for whatever reason and it gets left behind.

@The Oliver kennit. I think that's more down to how willing you are to put the work in. If I had to learn it I would.

I don't think the OP is going to respond so I'll stop responding too.

Probably, but here are some more accessible Linux distributions.

Unfortunetly that link proves my point. I thought Trisquel sounded interesting then found out it was updated in something like 2012, so it's very old.

Well, actually, I just partitioned my system disk while the system was running (sigh, oh MacOS, I will miss your technical brilliance!) so I'm sure as hell getting ready to walk the walk and will take the plunge just as soon as I can steel myself and have the time (probably during the weekend). As Brad observes, it's about what you have to do. Sooner or later the embarrassing quality control of macOS will leave us with no choice. No, I will not enjoy it, and no, I'm not above learning, but it's not like I don't have other, more important things to be doing, even in my free time. Unfortunately the recent hit caused by the forced upgrade to Sonoma and the VMware Fusion blues mean that, for me at least, the Bozo Bit is well and truly flipped on macOS. I'm disappointed, not angry. It's not the fairytale flight from eternal torment, more the cold and calculating suicide jump. Sorry if that sets anyone off; you know what I mean.