Discussion and ideas, How to tell companies like EnVision to G.T.F.O. here with their predatory pricing models.

Well. It's pretty simple in my opinion. You don't like a service or company, don't give them money and don't give them your data.
Because there really isn't much more you can do about it. At least in the US.

Just don't buy their products. We can't really chage the mind of others when it comes to this stuff, unless we really go out of our way and make a youtube video or something.

I didn't get the chance to read the thread before it was deleted, but just looking at the subject line made me gag! I agree, we should vote with our wallets. The problem is that these state agencies, schools, and other institutions have no idea and/or don't care this is predatory behavior. Convincing them it is most likely won't work. In most cases, such as with Vispero, they think it's the only game in town, or at least this is the feeling I get.
I already thought the $1,800 price point for these glasses was ridiculous, but $150 a month? Yucky! I like Louis Rossmann, so we'll see if he thinks it's important enough to create a video on this issue that doesn't impact the mainstream.

I got the life time subscription to Envision 2 or 3 years ago, I think, when it was on sale. Is this thread only relating to the glasses? If so, It definitely seems unfair. As one who can't even contemplate the idea of affording the glasses, though, it makes the idea of tacking on an expensive subscription for using them even more mind blowing. I can't even justify a minimal aira subscription. Supposedly, they have a service for 5 minutes free every day, which would be perfect for my limited needs, but the few times I actually wanted/needed something like that, it was unavailable. I'm truly thankful for Be My Eyes and seeing AI. Most of the time, one or the other will meet my needs. Things being overpriced in adaptive tech is nothing new. I get that it's a relatively small market, but charging the kinds of prices most tech companies charge to people who are probably the least likely to be able to afford it has always bothered me. I'd love to have smart glasses someday; not VR or AR, but just smart glasses. There were rumors of Apple making something like that for around $500, but I haven't heard any updates on that for a while. $500 is an amount I could try to save up for to get smart glasses, but any more than that would be a luxury expense that I could never justify. I'll be watching this topic with interest, though, just to see if I can learn more.

We are a niche market, no matter if you like that term or you don't. Blindness products of any shape or size are in a tiny corner of the mainstream market so naturally there's no competition so they can charge whatever they see fit. Is it right they want to charge 150 a month? Of course it isn't American speak here, state agencies have a budget, so they can outfit 100 little Timmys' or Sallys' with these "groundbreaking" glasses to show off all the buzz words of accessibility that every company throws around to get attention. The problem is until or if, mainstream companies look outside their boxes and say for anything and everything they put out, how can a blind person, deaf person, one in a wheelchair, use our product independently, we are stuck with small businesses that might do a good thing but close because they can't keep up with cash flow. Aira and other companies really have us over a barrel knowing they know we need this service. I agree, don't buy the product. Also go after mainstream companies besides the little blindness related ones, force them to look at the bigger picture. Also just playing devil's advocate, just curious how is it known there wasn't more hardware coming after the initial payment? I also didn't read the thread, saw it, so I'm asking a question. good luck on your fight, as i said bring mainstream companies, let them foot the bill for this and the price should become much easier to swallow.

Apologies if this has already been said, but one of the issues, if not "the" issue, with this kind of pricing scheme for the "niche market" is that agencies like "dept.'s for the blind", and the like, will gladly pay out the a$$ for such technology.
Ever heard of a little piece of software called "JAWS". That alone cost more than my MacBook Pro.. 🤯

Mainstream assistive technology is such a novel idea, and quite possibly the main reason I stubbornly stick with Apple products. Why yes, Apple tech is pricey. Look at what you get for your money, though.

On a completely unrelated note, I miss my Seeing Eye Dog. Had to retire him last year due to age and arthritis in his hips. He has a good home however, but man do I prefer the dog to the stick. 😅👨🏻‍🦯🦮

The root of the problem is that like with envision did with their subscription moddle, they are taking advantage of the system through large corporations, schools, government, etc; which let's be honest here; will always buy their products because... I dunno, maybe they don't know there are alternatives, i.e, nvda as an alternative for jaws? Problem is, companies like envision aren't catering to the individual, they are just money grabbing at a large scale, individual be damned, as let's be frank, not many people could afford the glasses, or jaws on their own. This is, in essence, a vicious circle, which even if we vote with our wallets... will keep going because large corporations don't know any better, leading to them being taken advantage of, and through them; blind or disabled people, being taken advantage of. And this is not something which is easily stopped.
I did get to look at their post yestorday, and my first thought was, what in the absolute hell? This isn't affordable for the individual... What I honestly do not understand is... why do companies take advantage and pull this sorts of money grabbing skeems and take advantage of people with disabilities? I mean, yes disability is a small market compared to others, but it is not a neesh market, and the thing is, by companies saying oh this is a neesh market, it justifies charging outrageous prices for their products, just because of the view, oh its a neesh market so we can get away with it because people are in crucial necessity of our product and they'll bend over backwords to have something which aids and betters their lives. I mean examples? Jaws, braille displays, braille notes, apex, touch etc... This is disgusting to say the least. I remember back in the day when I bought my braille note apex. I'm from guatemala, and here there is nothing like in the states, where the school supplies what you need, or the government... No. Here, you had to buy it yourself, without aid... nothing. And the device? It was like $6000, if memory serves. Its beyond sickening the attitude these companies have, because we're sure as hell not a neesh market. A small one? *Compared to other markets out there? Yes. But neesh as to justify these kinds of abuse from these companies... Absolutely not. Even today, braille displays are easily thousands of dollars, about 4k or more, and it shouldn't be like this. I mean make your price resonable don't just... oh neesh market so we'll put the hiest possible price, damn the people! Let them bend over backwords to get so and so... Its not right.
To be clear this also happens with mainstream companies, but it is not as much, although I can name few examples; adobe, avid technology... among others, however in this case, there's one key difference; choice. You don't like avid's prices and business moddle as far as a daw like pro tools? Ok you have logic pro, reaper, fl studio etc, to go with. Same with adobe. But the problem with us and the companies that pull these kinds of stuff is... most of the time? There is no choice or alternative. Think about it. You don't like say, humanware's products? Ok there are other ptions, himns, etc, for braille displays but... they'll be just as expensive. Back in the day where there was only jaws for windows or bust, you either got jaws or you where screwed. Get the point?

A question, I see both Envision and InVision named here, what company is referred to? Envision I've heard of but not InVision. In any case, a very interesting discussion, and it puts the finger on thoughts I've had for a while, mostly about JAWS and braille displays but also for this industry in general.

Thank you :)

As others have stated here, the blindness community (as it specifically relates to this discussion) is a niche market, and that's probably the number one reason for why some people find prices of products like JAWS or glasses too high or out of reach, even though in reality they actually are priced quite reasonably for the market being served. These aren't mainstream products and therefore the businesses that sell them can't command mainstream (read: often lower) prices; if they did, they'd be out of business in a heartbeat because they still need enough profits to break even or preferably exceed expectations, keep their business afloat, continue product development and all of the other things that come with running a business, etc.

In other words, a product in a niche market will by its very nature have less individuals purchasing that product, which then requires the product to be priced higher to make up the difference in sales. This is basic mathematics but it seems as though unfortunately most of the blindness community having this discussion would rather complain than use common sense. If you work in sales for one of these businesses, then you can discuss with them about setting prices; until then, don't buy the product if you can't afford it or don't like the practices of its seller. If all of the companies at the center of this discussion allowed all of us (some of whom flaunt way too much their sense of entitlement) to dictate their pricing structures, then sure prices would probably be a lot lower, but the products and the companies behind them would degrade in quality until they soon ceased to exist entirely because a niche market requires more resources to be profitable, not less. It's really that simple.

If you really believe predatory or illegal behavior (i.e. price-gouging) is taking place, then take it up with the courts in your jurisdiction and let the legal system decide rather than complaining on an online forum. Put your money where your mouth is, file a lawsuit, and see what comes of it, but if that's not what is actually occurring here, and instead you're just unhappy with the prices or other practices of a business and you feel they should be different, then as others stated there really isn't much you can do because the fact of the matter is that you don't work for these companies, you're not in charge of sales, and you're also not completely aware of the behind-the-scenes activities (research and development, testing, marketing, support, maintenance, accounting, human resources, security and incident monitoring and response, etc.) at these businesses that sometimes also help dictate their pricing structures. If you were, perhaps you'd have a different level of respect for what it actually takes to survive and thrive in a niche market.

Valid, however, while what you say makes sense to a sirtain point, their making the products more expensive is hurting them as well, as not all individuals can afford them. For instance, suppose their product where cheeper, to the point individuals could actually afford them at a resonable price. This would mean that they would have income from not only institutions, but also from individuals buying their product... which they're missing out given the high price, and that governments, institutions being willing to buy devices like these, is only in very few parts of the world. In a way, companies like these are screwing themselves over by pricing items as highly as they are, not making it affordable for the average consumer as well, and only making it affordable for large institutions... Why do you think most of these companies are not doing so well in the first place? They're business moddle isn't working, if it was, you would be seeing more people with these devices than what you currently see. I get what your trying to say, but its not working well in practice. A company pricing their products only at a institution level price... isn't going to go far. You need individual support as well as institutional support, you cannot only rely on one, even when its a nitch market.

To be brutally, honest folks doesn’t matter whether mainstream or not prices go up. no it’s not fair but as the old saying goes, life is not always going to be fair. This is what happens when inflation happens prices go up everywhere not just affecting people with disabilities either. That’s just my general thoughts. I myself M, a user of these glasses, and actually was fortunate to buy a pair of these glasses before they even introduced additions, bottles or whatever they’re calling them now and ended up getting a lifetime subscription to the fact that I bought them prior to a certain date, so while I’m enjoying these glasses and the app, I honestly must say there are different options out there. You can all be grateful and thankful for different strokes for different folks. Sorry you guys are not having such a good experience with this company, and the way they alongside other companies are handling their business regarding getting their product out there. i’m not gonna argue or debate since that’s what I don’t like to do. I’m just giving you guys my general thoughts and as everything keeps inflating, we’re all gonna have growing pains of how we’re going to manage monetarily what we can afford and then lose what we used to be able to afford you know supply the band and inflation the whole thing that our economics teachers taught us when we were in high school that whole bit. And apparently I guess there is supposed to be a government shutdown which I’m not really following that either but everybody is scrambling these days just to get by but like I said before at least we all have options besides what’s being discussed in this thread that are free alternatives. At least for those of us who cannot afford the subscription prices. In mind I bought the glasses at full price as well before it jumped down yet still I understand what you guys are talking about it is very unfortunate but you can only do what you can do with what you have so make the most of it.

Honestly, we can’t really do anything about this because every single thing of processes goes up eventually.
Look at the iPhone, 15 pro max in Australia. That’s $2900 nearly $3000. So are we just going to be blasting visually impairment companies for high prices? We get what we’re paid for. If it doesn’t work then it doesn’t work. But if you don’t like ha ha, the prices then don’t get it

I'm afraid people aren't taking into account how much it really costs the companies to manufacture these glasses. The fact is, they are paying pennies on the dollar for each unit. Maybe a few hundred dollars for engineering consultations, and that's all, the prices they charge are gouging us blind folks, and no one seems to be taking these companies to task for their gouging. These units are being manufactured in China, or some other third world company, and while the engineering may be from North America, the manufacturing sure the Hell isn't.

You all say, if you can't afford to buy it, don't buy it, but that is not a solution, it's only putting a band-aid on the gushing wound, hoping it'll stop the flow of blood, but talking to government representatives, legislators, etc. is what will help.

Make sure they advocate for your rights and benefits to make sure there is transparency in their pricing models. That is what we need, not someone talking out of their ass about how much their gouging us for money.

Once transparency is put in place, we know how much it costs these companies to manufacture each unit, and we can judge for ourselves whether these companies deserve our money or not.

I'm not interested in EnVision. I'm not even sure I'm impressed by the AI side of any of this yet. It's creeping me out that we're imagining them with a future monopoly in education, and blind children will be wearing this brand and style of AI glasses... that will be different from what ever the other children might be wearing or not wearing. One more way to spot you from a mile away.

As someone who has worked in the assistive tech field for the past 20 years or so I have several thoughts on this. Please know this response is not in opposition to the original post, but rather trying to add some historical data to give both sides of the story.
Today we have more choice than ever before as blind individuals with regards to technology. One can walk in any store and buy a computer, tablet, or phone with some level of screen reader access. To me this is progress. I would contend that such progress has made assistive technology specific companies more competitive than ever with pricing models.
For instance, a 40-cell braille display 20 years ago cost roughly $5500. Today you can purchase a 40-cell display for $2700. This is approximately 50% cheaper than just 20 years ago. I would say that innovation and advancements have drastically reduced the cost of refreshable Braille technology.
When it comes to screen readers, we have more choice than ever. Jaws as an annual subscription is $90 to put that in context that's approximately $7.5 monthly and $10 a year less than I pay for Office 365. For some of us who make a living because we have access to Jaws this is a negligible cost so the price point is worth it.
Often we deem something too expensive without considering the costs involved to offer such a product or service. There is usually a support team, customer service, research and development, programmers, and on and on and these people are all on a companies pay role. All of this goes in to determining the cost of a product or service.
I think the idea of AI, or wareable tech is interesting, but I’ve always thought it was priced impractical for what it offers. Devices like Orcam and envision glasses, for me are made irrelevant by a device like the iPhone with the scores of apps available to do the same things.

I think you can go even cheeper than that with the orbit range, it's not mby much but their 40 cell costs around $1400. The braille is a bit... Spikey... and it's not for me but it exists as an option.