What I miss most about iOS, and why I’m still not going back

By Holy Diver, 1 June, 2023

Forum
Android

Coke vs pepsi, chocolate vs vanilla, iOS vs android. We all know the debates and, for the most part, we’ve all picked a side. That doesn’t mean we’re all mindless droids or zombie fruit fiends, however, so I wanted to share my favorite things about the other side along with my reasons for giving them up. I’ve switched back and forth a couple times now and, while I’m not ruling out another flip at some point, I find myself much more on team android for now. Still, I have fond memories, many frustrations, and maybe I can shed some light for anyone who is just curious or considering your options. We all have choices and there isn’t one right answer for everyone. So, in the interest of playing fair, here’s what I regret most about mine and why I’m glad I made it anyhow.

I Miss iMessages

You know those massive group texts where you can all see each others’ reactions, can send voice messages that sound great and show off your great photos and videos to all the people with a single tap? Do you have that one family member or friend who’s always making your text conversations blow up with a notification for every single emoji reaction because they’re using regular text? It’s annoying. Even with google’s recent updates to make it slightly less awkward. There are workarounds, I can use Samsung quick share or google photos to share things, but that’s so much more cumbersome and time consuming for me and my friends. It doesn’t get any better with face time, though at least I can get invited to a call and use a web browser now. Apple built a sleek, easy solution here and it’s beautiful. I’m reminded how nice it is every time I’m stuck using one of google’s few stock message reactions … not a big deal each time but believe me it adds up to some frustration when it happens multiple times a week. Thanks apple. Oh, and if you’re switching from iPhone to android, please for the love of everything holy turn off iMessages in your apple account before you give up that shiny fruit phone! Just do it, you’ll thank me later.

Messages for Web

Call me old school but there’s nothing quite so satisfying, , or efficient, as a good old Qwerty keyboard for texting. Braille screen input is a good enough workaround on the go but, for typing fast and accurately, nothing beats the tried and true keyboard. If you’re an iPhone user with a windows computer this isn’t an option, unless you want to carry yet another device around and deal with a sometimes janky Bluetooth connection. Those of you with MACS often tell me how nice it is to get a text on your phone and reply on your MacBook. With google’s Messages for Web I have that same luxury, on all my devices, all it takes is scanning a QR code on my phone camera and I’m good to go. If I’m out and about with my chromebook I can use that. If I’m working on my windows machine and want to respond to someone without interrupting my routine to grab my phone it’s just an open tab away, no pocket rummaging or phone unlocking necessary. This may not matter to everybody but it sure makes my life easier.

iOS has better Braille support, especially for reading

I swear by Braille, the difference between listening to a thing and reading it is, for me, life changing. It’s no secret Apple got to Braille first, more Braille displays work over Bluetooth with iOS and for the most part the experience is better. Android Braille has come a long way, it mostly does what I need it to (more on that in a minute) but so far IOS Braille support is much more powerful and, ironically, customizable.

On iOS I can use the voiceover gesture commander to create pretty much whatever Braille commands I want. I can jump to the next level 4 heading on a web site with a custom shortcut, make a keystroke to navigate by row or column in a table etc. I also know right away when there’s a swipe down action, which again I can easily emulate from the display, without having to guess if that’s available for whatever item has focus on the screen. It’s powerful, easily configurable and I really do miss that.

IOS also, as of now, wipes the floor with android in terms of reading Braille books on your phone. Do you live in the states and use the Bard Mobile app? How about iBooks? They work, it’s relatively straightforward, you just might need to switch your Braille table to Computer Braille depending on the app you’re using to read … Looking at you, Bard Mobile. On my android phone all the braille books in that Bard app might as well be Greek or Javascript, though I’ve heard that’s likely changing soon. Perhaps more frustrating google play books and books from the Kindle store either won’t read at all or else the focus moves around so much they might as well be unreadable. Luckily my qBraille can store and read bookshare and Bard offerings without my phone or else I’d really be up the proverbial creek.

Android Braille is much better for writing

Yes, android Braille actually gets a win and not a small one. Anybody who’s used Braille on iOS for serious writing work doubtless knows just how frustrating it is to have the cursor move to a totally different place in the document, sometimes without even showing you this on the display. It’s a serious glitch in otherwise solid iPhone Braille support and, given that it’s been a problem for years without any resolution, I’m betting it always will be. So, with all its limitations, I actually prefer Braille on android just because I can write with the peace of mind that my cursor will stay put. I can actually draft papers, longer e-mails and the like without having to use the terminal clipboard or a purpose built app like Voice Dream writer. For me that makes the reading difficulties worth it, though it wouldn’t if my display had no on board storage.

Blindness specific apps are better on the iPhone

It’s no secret that most developers in our small community focus more on iOS and only get around to android as an afterthought, if they get around to it at all. Financially this makes sense, especially in America. There are very few blind people actually paying for these specialized apps and almost all of those people have been on the Apple side of the fence for years. I love NFB newsline and it has a great iOS app, no such luck on android. I really want to try the BE My Eyes virtual volunteer but the waiting list didn’t even open up on android for almost a month after iPhone users got the chance to register. The oko app for detecting when street lights change is not on the play store, promises notwithstanding, and I’m doubtful it ever will be. Goodmaps on android is at best a mess, at worst totally unusable unless you like your GPS giving you wildly inaccurate information about things several blocks away from where you actually are. If you like Blindsquare or Seeing AI, they aren’t even on android. While I find Google Lookout generally works as well or better than Seeing AI I do miss some of the extra features, like the indoor navigation with breadcrumbs. IN short, android users are second class citizens in the blindness app world and that’s not changing any time soon.

Most apps on android are more accessible by default

Do you like turning on and off screen detection in the telegram app? How about the voiceover bugs with facebook that inevitably crop up with major app updates? Did your Uber app ever break after getting auto updated from the app store? For reasons too technical to go much into here, mostly talkback requiring less optimizations than voiceover on the app developer side, I rarely have this problem. It’s true I don’t have screen detection but I also rarely need it… and, for the odd app where that would come in handy I can at least get sighted help to label the inaccessible icons and I never have to worry about that app again. In my three years on android I don’t think I’ve ever had an update from the play store break accessibility in any app and I can’t say the same about iOS. Maybe that tradeoff isn’t worth it for you but I definitely chose the less frustrating pain for myself.

Voiceover works better for flicking through the screen

Believe it or not, voiceover doesn’t usually show you exactly what’s on the screen. In the youtube app, for example, the options by every video to go to channel and open the menu to share, save to playlist etc are only accessible with a one finger swipe down. For sighted iPhone users all of those options are on the screen but apple decided to minimize the number of swipes required with voiceover. While this can make it more efficient if you only swipe through your screen it also makes life a little harder for app developers and, more to the point, doesn’t actually show you how everything’s laid out. This is good and bad depending on your philosophy and use case but my experience providing tech support for sighted and blind users alike really made me appreciate google’s approach here. I can walk my sighted girlfriend through an app we both use with confidence that we’re actually looking at the same thing in the same way and, when I google a tutorial for an app, I can just follow it without any modifications. Still, I do sometimes miss Apple’s more streamlined approach. I don’t think there’s only one right strategy for everyone here, pick what matters more to you.

The good side of apple optimization

Lastly, Apple makes it easier to just buy a phone and be confident accessibility will just work the way it’s supposed to. All new I devices run the same software, go through the same testing process, and voiceover is basically the same whichever flavor of fruit you end up buying. You can get your phone and be pretty confident it will mostly work like every other iPhone you’ve ever used. While android has made progress here the fragmentation between manufacturers means you really have to do more research to find your ideal fit. Get a google phone and you run the best version of talkback, with worse hardware. Get a Samsung phone and your talkback will always be about a year out of date unless you know how to get google’s version on your phone with the ADB terminal. Get a Xiaomi or Oneplus and there’s really no telling how accessibility works before you actually use the darn thing. It’s more of an open market and with that comes fragmentation and less controlled accessibility. You’ll never have that problem with Apple.

The good side of fragmentation

Do you miss a headphone jack on your phone? Do you want the chance to run multiple screen readers for redundancy, like you can on Windows? Do you want to use TTS from anywhere other than Apple? With android you have all those options precisely because things aren’t optimized like Apple. On my phone I have two versions of talkback, one with the latest features and one that’s designed for Samsung’s software, and I can switch between them in less time than it takes to turn off Jaws and activate NVDA. If you’re comfortable with less secure software you can use Commentary screen reader, which gives many more features and customization than talkback, then switch back to talkback with a simple volume key shortcut. More choices, more risk, more potential to break things or make them better for you. The choice, as always, is yours.

Options

Comments

By Rich on Monday, June 5, 2023 - 20:48

Hi.
Very well written post.
Not sure if you heard, but Google added actions to their granularity settings.
I'd like to get a device to test stuff, but I'm not sure what to go with now.
For a while I've been leaning toward Pixel since you'll always get the latest updates as soon as they're pushed out, but I've also heard a lot of Samsung users enjoy their phones.
If I were to go for a Samsung, does their version of Talkback have braille keyboard yet?
I remember back when Samsung first did away with Voice Assistant they didn't have it.
As for switching, I may consider it if Apple can't fix VoiceOver, but this decision isn't official yet.
When VoiceOver works how it's supposed to, I do like it. I get everything I need.

By Holy Diver on Monday, June 5, 2023 - 20:48

Hi Rich, yes talkback actions are in the granularity. Not only that but if you're on an item with an action you can just swipe down or use the action keyboard/braille display command, no fiddling with the granularity required. It's still a little better with voiceover, as I recall, because you're told you can swipe down for more options even with usage hints turned off. In Talkback if you turn off the hints, which I do to save time, you just have to swipe down and see if it works.
Yes, both talkbacks have the braille keyboard and it works well. I prefer it to Ios because it just pops up when I enter an edit field, though voiceover still wins in that department for complex text editing.

By Rich on Monday, June 5, 2023 - 20:48

Sometimes you may have to switch your setting to action. But yes, I saw that you can swipe up or down for actions on Droid. It must be a new thing since the video was posted a few weeks before I saw it.

By OldBear on Monday, June 5, 2023 - 20:48

Back in the day, 2014 I think, there just wasn't any question. Android was very slightly accessible, and IOS was quite accessible, and that's when I first got a smartphone. I still hate using an on-screen keypad with the phone.
I spend most of my computing time on that other Unix-like OS, run on cheap, secondhand business-model computers that would be junk otherwise. So you would think I would be into Android. It just isn't tempting enough to fork over the cabbage for a non-junk device to experience very, slightly less accessibility, and probably more compatibility with my primary OS.
If Android starts running circles around Apple in accessibility, I might be tempted. I just don't want to think about it too much. I want to have the easy answer of accessibility when someone gets in my face and starts trying to shove a switch to Android down my throat because there's a cheap and extremely low powered phone from a couple of years ago on sale. Having to explain that it's not the same on all devices with Android gets tedious. So get off my lawn or I'll turn on the sprinklers!

By Holy Diver on Monday, June 5, 2023 - 20:48

Seriously I'm not trying to get anybody to switch. I've just seen a lot of talk here, some of it informative and some of it not so much, so I wanted to share why I did and why, for me, android is slightly more accessible. IPhones are great, enjoy yours.

By Devin Prater on Monday, June 5, 2023 - 20:48

I’ve been switching back and forth for a few months now, but what broke the cammel’s back for me was when one morning I was feeling around my iPhone home screen, and speech simply stopped. That was it. I promptly put the SIM into my Samsung phone, running Google TalkBack, and was ready to go. I recently got an old Braille Edge display, and love, absolutely love, typing on it. Unlike VoiceOver, no matter how fast or much I type, TalkBack never slows down when translating the Braille back to plain text. Now, Google Play Books isn’t as nice as Apple Books to read in Braille with, but it works. And now that TalkBack can do spell checking, I think the core text editing expience is good enough for someone to make a good writing app for the blind, and it actually be possible, and worth it. Also, on my Galaxy S20 FE, I can type the word FOR in Braille. Just put down all six fingers, and there it is. No need to do any finger gymnastics, or just spell out the word like on the iPhone. Also, this whole message was written on the Samsung phone, with hardly no fuss from the TalkBack Braille keyboard. It's definitely improved since this time last year.

By Rich on Monday, June 5, 2023 - 20:48

Like I said, if Apple can't fix this VoiceOver randomly deciding it wants to stop speaking issue, I really might consider it, and if I do reconsider I hope I don't let people talk me out of it like they did last time.
I am kind of on the fence though, but this is because I've seen a lot of people who were iOS users that jumped ship and went to Droid, but they ended up coming back.
While it's not the biggest deal, I would miss things like Facetime and iMessage.
iMessage will be coming to Android thanks to Sunbird, but I'm not sure about Facetime.

By Dominic on Monday, June 5, 2023 - 20:48

high.
I habe an iPhone se2022 whell/ its my mums phone but never mind that.
I just brought a sang some galaxy a04s with 4gb ram and 128gbs of storage.
here is what I like about my android phone.
[ it has graite sounds].
[ it has a good silection of accessible apps].
[ the battery is bloody ausom on my phone. its so good that im sorry apple but if a 250$ phone can beat you in battery life um.
[ y'all it has a head phone jack. micro sd card support and hella good cameras.
Here is what I don't like about it.
I can't use eloquence on that thing since it has android 13 and it needs android 12 to run eloquence
I'm sorry but my phone's design looks like a 22-year-old with three brain cells fitted with a micro SD card made it. The plastic back design just doesn't suit me at all but it's better than nothing.
And why on earth is that power button engraved into the phone it's literally pressed into the side of the phone. Yeah, you get what I'm saying.
android over all needs some improvement but I just had to switch.

By Dominic on Monday, June 5, 2023 - 20:48

Actually you still can use FaceTime on android you just need a FaceTime link

By Dominic on Monday, June 5, 2023 - 20:48

maybe keep your iPhone but use your android.
you may never no when you may need it

By Tyler on Monday, June 5, 2023 - 20:48

Member of the AppleVis Editorial Team

You technically don't need an iPhone to create a FaceTime link; they can be created from iPads and Macs as well.

By Matt92Machine on Monday, June 5, 2023 - 20:48

In my opinion, the gestures make a lot more sense on iOS. Also Voiceover is way more responsive, especially in a web browser. Even if you have a high end android phone, it still won't match the responsiveness, at least when it comes to using a screen reader. I used to get so annoyed with my Galaxy S20 locking up in Chrome, when it had no reason to. Things I miss about android is the ability to just copy paste music, videos, anything I want from my computer to phone without dealing with iTunes. Also, on iOS, the sleep timer for the screen is very useful. I don't know why Android doesn't have that built in.

By Holy Diver on Monday, June 5, 2023 - 20:48

I totally agree voiceover is snappier than talkback, though with every update talkback gets a little better in that department. Also the gestures are becoming more and more similar to iOS with time, though not identical. I’ve noticed talkback on pixels is almost as snappy as voiceover but, yeah, apple’s total control of the hardware helps a lot there.

By Matt92Machine on Monday, June 5, 2023 - 20:48

When I first switched to android, I kept accidently doing gestures because of the way talk back works. When you first touch the screen, you have to wait half a second or so before you can explore the screen with your finger. Otherwise, if you're too quick, talk back thinks you are trying to do a gesture. I never really got used to that, it always annoyed me.

By Dennis Long on Monday, June 5, 2023 - 20:48

Android will never catch up to voiceover. If Apple fixes bugs in iOS 17 talk back is screwed. Voiceover also has better keyboard support. Voiceover has better spell check. The screen recognition is better then anything talkback has. Google doesn’t care about accessibility for all.

By Amir on Monday, June 5, 2023 - 20:48

As much as I like Android, Google has a long way to go. Improved AI features like auto-image recognition, more comprehensive spell-checking, screen recognition, better/faster language/TTS engine switching, better hardware keyboard support, acceptance/use of TalkBack actions in more apps, and, last but not least, more visible developer acceptance. On iOS we're spoiled when it comes to choosing fully accessible/VoiceOver-optimized RSS readers, Mastodon clients, full-fledged dictionaries, etc. With all honesty that's not the case on Android. No third-party commercial dictionary is fully accessible/navigable on Android (name AHD 5/ODE/Merriam-Webster on iOS), and the same is true about RSS readers on Android (just name lire on iOS). Yes, both have bugs and issues, but I've seen more of those on Android, and the more people use TalkBack, the more Google access bugs will be known.

By Brooke on Monday, June 5, 2023 - 20:48

If Google continues to make progress, while Apple continues to ignore long-standing Voiceover bugs, I'll be taking a more serious look at Android in the future. Some of these bugs have existed for years, like the Voiceover focus issue. I still can't call someone reliably from my Recent Call log. I think it was Devin Prater who mentioned the VO crash bug, where VO just stops. That, to me, is a deal-breaker. When I lose speech and have to fight to get it back, it's time to seriously research the competition.

By OldBear on Monday, June 5, 2023 - 20:48

What are you 3D printing? I'm an artist. Am I going to have to worry about you people replacing me with AI and a computer?
I vaguely remember considering a cheap Android device and an app, perhaps the same one, a short time back when looking for bluetooth calipers, but I was able to get the IOS calculator and also Numbers to read out the data as I send it. I don't like having my delicate and expensive iPhone out when in the workshop, and I use feeler gauges and measuring blocks a bit more than calipers.

By Holger Fiallo on Monday, June 5, 2023 - 20:48

I keep hearing that there are many android users moving to iOS.

By Ekaj on Monday, June 5, 2023 - 20:48

I'm glad you mention Braille on iOS, not that I've used it because I have yet to do so. I recently received my eReader and have been trying to get it up and running. I think we're almost there, but just looking through the Braille settings within VoiceOver both on my iPhone and Mac tells me that it's going to be a good experience. I've already had a wonderful experience on both these devices, and am so looking forward to getting back into the wonderful world of Braille. I grew up using it, and have fond memories. I won't talk about the whole literacy debate because that seems to be a hot topic inandof itself for some. But anyway, thanks for posting.

By Siobhan on Monday, June 5, 2023 - 20:48

@HolyDiver awesome name. I've tried to write this so many times without swearing, hard to do when Irish, or almost mutilating a poster who just is so into apple's bottle feeding they don't see any differences. My use case of android was borrowed a buddy's phone, and the aforementioned Irish temper made me hand it back However, I blamed myself, not the operating system. Anyway if apple keeps this up, I might switch, Apple watch though, damn. Apple not only will have six operating systems under their belt, they will focus on the newest one, letting others get the pants pulled down in front of everyone treatment. and no matter what any keyboard crusader says, I'll never be convinced until I am talking to a honest face to face person, there are not nearly as many Apple workers with any type of disability. Anyone remember when apple sold braille displays in the online store? i do. Anyone remember when you thought you had someone with half a brain when talking about voice over on an iPod or Mac? i do. Call a spade a spade, if one person with any type of disability, had seen when apple released the workouts for the watch, did not take into account wheelchair users not being able to stand for the most part, it took them like three months to release it. Unacceptable. . As for a caliper? I didn't read the spelling, I think www.nbp.org has one though I recognize you english might need to pay through the nose for it. sorry about that. Apple needs to take us more seriously not keep putting innovation out there without listening to the consumer. You can't test every use case. You can however stop being afraid and bite the bullet and install it on your primary device. I do remember when an old IOS had a bad voice over bug don't update to the next beta. No problem. I wish more people would be as adventurous as I am and just do it. All of the above to say, whatever works is fine. android is fine, IOS works for those who use it. Oh forgot, someone wanted a watch comparison try
www.davidwoodbr.podbean.com and search around there. Ugh hospital time again. Remember, I'm not trashing either operating simply calling them to take on what to do better because obviously google's got issues also.

By Jason White on Monday, June 5, 2023 - 20:48

I would suggest experimenting with BRLTTY for Android, as it's probably better than what is provided by default. I've used BRLTTY under Linux, but I don't have an Android device on which to test it.

By Daniel Angus MacDonald on Monday, June 5, 2023 - 20:48

well … my first cellphone was a Nexus 5, Android phone. loved everything about it! my reasons for getting it back then, 2011, were Nearby Explorer, as it was an Android Only app at the time, and rooting my phone and flashing custum ROMs to run current software for years. unfortunetly, never had contacts to teach me that. now, I do. the thing that prompted the switch, was ApplePay. staff at my former apartment, used my tap on my debet card, when I was rehearsing for a play, wuthout permission. I received an Apple Watch as a birthday present, from my family, so they locked me into an iPhone. or so they thought. I used my Apple Watch for a few weeks, but do not see practical usecases for it personally. when my iPhone 12 Pro Max dies, I will be happaley going back to Android. Apple, you’ve successfully priced me out!

By sockhopsinger on Monday, June 5, 2023 - 20:48

I have not heard this mentioned, and I do not know the answer. I know in the past you could not get Talkback up and running without sighted assistance. If that remains the case, I don't care how good the accessibility is, but I refuse to consider using a phone that I cannot set up myself without sighted assistance. Can anyone comment on this? Thanks.

By Andy Lane on Monday, June 5, 2023 - 20:48

For years I put up with the shoddy experience Apple were providing with voiceover. Making excuses for them, taking the frustration their software caused and almost turning it back on myself as shame that I can’t see and it’s somehow my fault. Thats coming to an end. I’ve recently moved back to Windows and I’m glad I did. My move to android is looking imminent too. I’m sick to death of handing over thousand upon thousand of pounds in the hope that this one, this new thing will fix all the problems. The truth is It’s not going to happen until Apple change how they approach accessibility. If they aren’t going to get serious about it and fix their damn OS then I’m not playing the game anymore. It’s not going to get better. It can’t because the fundamental problem isn’t being fixed. The fundamental problem is they aren’t taking it seriously. Anyone who even suggests they are is deluding themselves and I hope they find themselves moving toward reality more quickly than I did. If this is the best Apple can do then I am not impressed but we all know this is not the best they can do. It’s an insult. It’s rude and it takes us, there customers for granted. I don’t have to put up with this level of contempt anymore. Either they stop the headline grabbing aren’t we wonderful to blind customers bull crap and start fixing bugs or I’m gone. They have 1 year until my phone renewal when its either a pixel or iPhone. If its a pixel, I won’t be coming back. You can’t take a fan, treat them with contempt and expect them to forgive. Apologies if any of that was all over the place. VO kept crashing. And I think I’ve put it all right but I’ve had enough of checking and re-checking.

By Dominic on Monday, June 5, 2023 - 20:48

That’s strange because I tried pressing the volume buttons, maybe I only pressed them for three seconds because I was used to Google pixel
Maybe I might try that next time I reset that phone
And you guys wonder why I have older Apple devices, just so I can stay away from the bugs of iOS 16. I will be perfectly fine with my galaxy an iPhone 6s Plus

By Brooke on Monday, June 5, 2023 - 20:48

Generally, Talkback can be started by holding down the 2 volume buttons for a few seconds. But like iOS, I think the shortcut has to be enabled. Usually it is; I've experimented with a few devices where it worked perfectly. There was one, I think it was a Samsung Flip, or Fold... where the shortcut didn't work. But I also know there are rare occasions where an iPhone ships without the VO shortcut being set up, and people have needed sighted help to get it going.

By Holger Fiallo on Monday, June 5, 2023 - 20:48

Whenever I setup an iPhone, I ask siri to turn VO.

By Devin Prater on Monday, June 5, 2023 - 20:48

When I heard that a new iPhone 13 Pro was experiencing the same bugs as my iPhone SE 2020, that definitely made my "well what’s the use of upgrading" synicism go way up. If you use Braille, and have a Focus 14 or 40, or any HIMS device, give Android a go. I’m sure you'll be delighted with the typing experience at least, and the reading experience is getting better with each new version. Also, they release new pretty major versions every six months, and could do so more often. Apple releases major versions once a year, and spends the next 12 months trying to fix all the bugs they couldn't get to in beta versions.

By Holy Diver on Monday, June 5, 2023 - 20:48

First, you can turn talkback on with google assistant the same way you do voiceover with siri. From there you can set up whatever shortcut you need to, by default the volume keys should turn talkback on without any fuss but, you know, should.
As far as BrlTTY it does indeed work on android, though with most of the same limitations of talkback regarding HID displays over bluetooth. It seems like a great tool for a developer or rocket scientist, I confess the learning curve intimidated me after a few days but talkback braille is improving fast relative to voiceover. That's the other thing, in my experience talkback makes major improvements with every update, adding minor bugs, when last I checked out voiceover it was doing the opposite and adding little iterative things while letting the bugs pile up.
Anyway, to Amyr's point, yes there are less optimized apps but at the same time I've found more apps that work without optimization if that makes sense. I can only remember ever downloading one totally unusable app from the play store (out of hundreds over the years), perhaps there are one or two more I'm no longer remembering but that was definitely not the case in iOS. I also want to stress how much I appreciate never having an app auto update and break accessibility, that's literally never happened to me on android and for me that's, to paraphrase the alleged leader of the apparently free world, a big flipping deal.

By Holy Diver on Monday, June 5, 2023 - 20:48

First, you need google's talkback for this, it's in their latest update so Samsung won't have it for another six months or so. Then, so long as it's a HID compatible display, yes you should be able to do this.

By OldBear on Monday, June 5, 2023 - 20:48

I use that clothes color app on IOS all the time, sometimes even for clothes, but a lot for the color of insulation on wires and assorted color coating and colors of objects, all on an 18% gray card as background. It's been a huge, huge, and I can't explain how huge of a game changer for me. And I just got a pang of panic with the thought I would lose that.
So how do the color describers stack up on Android?
Other apps I use a lot include the level, I've used the compass from time to time, and a few light detectors. There's also that tuning app. I usually do light and money through Seeing AI, along with all the OCR etc.

By Holy Diver on Monday, June 5, 2023 - 20:48

So android has way more apps like this than iOS but only a few of them are well-maintained. I found the Speek app on android to work about as well as any other color ID app I've tried, which is to say not very well but I've never tried the background card like you're talking about. Still, physics being universal I suspect you'd get similar results with something like Speek or especially the Voice for android, which brings a whole new level of power and learning curve to what can be done with a phone camera. One of my friends was able to use soundscapes in the Voice for finding lines on a crosswalk while crossing a street, for example, but he's put hours into mastering that app. As far as basic OCR, reading food labels/currency and the like I find google lookout works much better than Seeing AI for me but it takes a totally different approach. Seeing AI takes a second to process and only speaks after it's pretty sure it knows what to say, so less information but more accuracy. Google lookout just tells you what the camera sees without as much lag to check for accuracy which, for me being a fidgety clutz works a lot better ... but I can totally see how for some people it could go the other way. That's not to say seeing AI isn't fast or lookout isn't accurate, it's just lookout is a lot faster for me and, because of that, I get more what I need even if there's an odd letter wrong here or there more than you'd find in Seeing AI on comparable hardware.

By OldBear on Monday, June 5, 2023 - 20:48

I don't like the feeling of dangling by a thread of dependency on an app developer. The close app gives me patterns along with the colors, and that helps in a lot of cases. I suppose I should experiment more with the other color functions of apps, and test it against Clothes Color. It sounds like some of the AI apps are describing, or can be asked to describe the colors in pictures.

By Devin Prater on Monday, June 5, 2023 - 20:48

HIMD displays will work over Bluetooth or USB, even with Samsung's TalkBack.

By Holy Diver on Monday, June 5, 2023 - 20:48

I couldn't get my eReader to work so I just assumed HID displays weren't working there yet. Still, I'd recommend google's talkback for Braille support because it's still new and Samsung's is ...incomplete in comparison. If you change your granularity to heading navigation on a web site, for example, so far only google's talkback will show "headings" on the display.

By Brad on Monday, June 5, 2023 - 20:48

I think it was misty that mentioned she can't answer calls. It's odd cause I can use all the features just fine. I'm in the UK if that helps.

The only issue I've had is the keypad not showing up sometimes when I need it.

By Ekaj on Monday, June 5, 2023 - 20:48

Thanks so much for the info on Braille displays. I'm having a devil of a time connecting/pairing mine with my Mac. It is currently paired with my iPhone via blue-tooth, but I cannot get it to do much. I know the eReader works because I've successfully charged it and read through the on-board user guide. My sighted personal assistant and I had another crack at it this afternoon. He and I listened to some of Judy Dixon's videos which were very well done. He wants me to try and log into BARD again on the eReader, so that's what I'm gonna do in the morning before my work-out class. I'm sure we'll get it going eventually, but I must say this is rather daunting. All righty then, my body is telling me it's bedtime.

By Amir on Monday, June 5, 2023 - 20:48

@Holy Diver, perhaps we're talking about two different Androids <LOL>! My experience, even with Galaxy S23 Ultra, shows the opposite. I've seen many inaccessible apps on the Google Play - apps with lots of unlabeled buttons, apps whose tab names, even if identified, cannot be selected by TalkBack, etc. So let me claim that based on my experience, it's more likely to encounter half-inaccessible or totally inaccessible apps on the Google side.

By Dominic on Monday, June 5, 2023 - 20:48

As I said okay yes you can shut up an android device with talkback
I just did a whole YouTube series of me setting that phone up that I use a Galaxy phone

By Holy Diver on Monday, June 5, 2023 - 20:48

@Amir, I freely admit I have to occasionally take a couple minutes with a new app to label unlabeled buttons. It's a little annoying. Still, it saves me tons more time in the long run, no need to toggle screen detection, and once that's done I don't have to worry about it ever again. At least I can make those unlabeled buttons usable with minimal effort so, yeah, for me that's accessible. Of course I'd prefer not having to do even that minimal work, and indeed I rarely need to now with talkback's still fledgling image detection, but I'm willing to pay that price when I've learned through experience I only have to do it once. Oh, and at the risk of making an already long-winded comment even more rambly, toggling on the "speak element IDs for unlabeled buttons" in talkback's verbosity settings helps a ton with most unlabeled buttons I've found... not all, but most.

By Dennis Long on Monday, June 5, 2023 - 20:48

Android has half baked accessibility. It is poor and Google doesn't care about accessibility for all. More over getting devs on board with accessibility is going to be a problem. Does apple need to do a better job of bug fixing yes.

By Holger Fiallo on Monday, June 5, 2023 - 20:48

Link please. Would like to see that. Consider doing a podcast on both if you have iPhone and galaxy. Doing the sane thing. Email, text, playing music, downloading an app, restarting device, closing apps, and so on. This would help more than having a discussion in which people will never agree. My 13 pro is doing great and have no issues that most are having. Lucky me. Although when iOS 13 came out it was bad. Unlucky 13 did not help with much and when I talk in AppleVis people jump all over me and gave me a hard time.

By Amir on Monday, June 5, 2023 - 20:48

@Holy Diver Yeah - TalkBack has it the way VoiceOver does. However, if I spend a lot on a Samsung flagship - the way I do on Apple flagship, I shouldn't spend time labeling stuff simply because my screen reader offers such a feature. Likewise, I shouldn't spend time downgrading/reinstalling/upgrading my TalkBack, mostly via my laptop, simply because several versions of it exist and one version works better than the one my flagship already has. Likewise, with flagships like the S23/S23 Ultra it's not acceptable that, by default, double-tap gestures don't work as expected unless one alters a setting first in the Developer section of TalkBack. Of course, with mid-range or low-tier Androids these modifications might be digestible by some, but Google's lack of attention to many modern features of a full-fledged screen reader (including AI features) makes the investment harder to swallow. And I don't want to reiterate the story about the lack of full-fledged/accessible third-party RSS readers, Mastodon clients, dictionaries etc.
Finally, my criticism of Android doesn't mean that Apple is doing a great job. On the contrary, Apple deserves a lot of criticism for having handled many access-oriented bug reports poorly. However, a rosy assessment of Android accessibility, as of this writing, belies the fact that Google needs to do a lot more and must alter its current atmosphere if it really wants to catch up.