AppleVis Extra 114: Blind Developer Showcase: A Chat with Ashley Cox of Simulcast

In this episode of the AppleVis Extra podcast, David Nason is joined by Ashley Cox, a blind software developer who is building native apps for Apple's platforms with a strong focus on accessibility, usability, and thoughtful design.

Ashley shares his journey into software development—from teaching himself HTML in the early days of the web to developing sophisticated Swift applications for iPhone, iPad, Mac, Apple Watch, Apple TV, and Apple Vision Pro. Along the way, he discusses how personal needs often inspire his projects and why creating software for yourself can lead to better experiences for everyone.

The conversation takes an in-depth look at Simulcast, Ashley's upcoming podcast application that combines podcast playback, internet radio, Apple Music integration, iCloud syncing, Siri support, and a host of accessibility-focused features into one native Apple experience. Ashley also discusses two additional projects currently in development: Levelly, a precision spirit level for iPhone; and Audit, a modern single-track audio editor designed specifically for macOS.

David and Ashley also explore:

• Learning Swift as a blind developer
• Why native apps still matter
• Cross-platform versus native development
• Building accessible interfaces from the ground up
• VoiceOver customization, rotor support, and real-world testing
• Working with hundreds of beta testers
• Using Apple APIs such as Siri, Apple Intelligence, ShazamKit, and iCloud
• The realities—and frustrations—of publishing software on the App Store
• Pricing apps without relying solely on subscriptions
• How AI is changing modern software development
• Why blind developers bring unique perspectives to software design

Whether you're interested in Apple development, accessibility, podcast apps, or hearing from developers within the blind community, this conversation offers an honest look behind the scenes of modern app development and the passion required to bring quality software to life.

Resources & Links:

• Ashley Cox
• The Blind Man's Workshop
• AppleVis discussion: Seeking Testers for my new iOS and macOS Podcast App

If you're interested in following the development of Simulcast, joining the beta, or reading feedback from early testers, be sure to visit the AppleVis discussion thread linked above. It includes feature updates, development news, and information on participating in the TestFlight beta.

Thanks for listening to the AppleVis Extra podcast.

Transcript

Disclaimer: This transcript was generated by AI Note Taker – VoicePen, an AI-powered transcription app. It is not edited or formatted, and it may not accurately capture the speakers’ names, voices, or content.

David: welcome to the Appoviz Extra podcast. David Nason here, delighted to be with you for another episode. On today's podcast, really excited to be joined by a developer called Ashley Cox. This is the first in a mini-series of podcasts we're doing to showcase blind and low vision developers. So people from within our community, who are developing apps. There's a lot of good stuff going on at the moment in that space. And we thought it would be good fun to showcase them. So Ashley is the developer of an app called Simulcast, which is a podcast app and also does radio and music and things like that as well. So it's a really cool app. It is not yet out, but it is available in test flight as a beta. And you can check that out on AppleViz.com and get all the details there. And it will be in the apps for later the year. Ashley's also got a lot of experience of developing and coding and has various other projects in the works too. So it's a really interesting chat. Really excited to get into it. So without further ado, let's get into the chat with Ashley. Ashley, thanks for joining me on the show. Great to have you here.

Ashley: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

David: Delighted. and yeah, I suppose I asked you on because you I know you're active in in developing apps and that kind of thing and you're a member of the community yourself. So yeah, do you want to tell us a little bit first about yourself, about your background?

Ashley: Yeah, so my background is well college dropout software developer. I've been into computers for many years. I got my first computer in the early two thousands and I k kinda got bitten by the bug I guess. Um a a good friend of mine at the time um taught me s uh basic web development. obviously started out with HTML like everybody does and sort of back in the early two thousands the sort of web two point oh era hadn't really hit, you know it was a lot simpler to create sort of your basic website back then. so he taught me the basics of web development, HTML, CSS, PHP, all that kind of thing. and I got quite heavily into that and then sort of moving on from that, I started learning sort of different languages. I was a Windows user sort of back in those days, so it would have been things like Python, little bit of visual basic, that kind of thing. and then yeah, kinda just moved on from there. I I sort of took a break from it for a while while I was sort of going up through school and into college and did a little bit on the side but not much and then left college and kind of just took it up as a career mainly because I was struggling to find employment as many in the community do and you know it it was just something I could do and it was something I could get paid for so I did it. and then sort of a few years later I ended up going down a different career path. mainly because I I just found software development full time to be quite a lonely profession. so, I I needed a change. so went down a different career path, but I've always sort of kept my hand in and and, done it as a hobby and done it sort of semi professionally on the side and I think sort of more more than ever really I'm I'm coming up with ideas and finding solutions that will probably problems that need solutions and you know why not make those solutions? So yeah a lot of the apps I create are created because I either can't find an app to fulfil a particular need or because the apps that are currently out there are are lacking in some kind of feature and you know I'd I I feel I could sort of bring something to the table so so yeah that that's kind of me really.

David: That's brilliant yeah. I I did the HTML S C S S bit ne andver got any further. So I'm for it's one of those I'm one of those people who always says I I'd love to learn code but I've never actually done it. So for play for for sticking to and and yeah, learning it.

Ashley: And and like creating your basic website, you could do a lot with very basic markup language. whereas now especially if you're kind of wanting to be competitive you you there's just so much almost that you've got to be on top of you know everything's based on a framework these days or y th obviously we've got all these web two point oh technologies, JavaScript etc. And people expect a certain style and a certain level of complexity in even the simplest website or app. you know the it it's kinda funny really because there's there's more resources than ever for people getting into coding or people getting back into coding but it it's in some ways harder than ever because the projects that we're creating are more complex than ever. and of course th there's so much out there now in terms of apps as well. It it's such a crowded landscape that coming up with original ideas Yeah, and the economics of it are massively

David: changed in the last twenty years as well.

Ashley: Absolutely. Yeah. And the way we distribute apps and the fact that we don't own anything anymore and you know it's it's it's crazy really. And of course AI as well, the fact that anybody can make an app doesn't necessarily mean it's a good app, but anyone can make an app.

David: Yeah, this is true. And like you you said you're yeah, your friend helped you get started learning the the early pieces HTML after that. Like what kind of resources would you have used to to learn languages?

Ashley: Mainly online to be honest. I I was mostly self taught. you know I would I I was never one to sort of learn like go super in-depth and learn a programming language and sort of special specialise in that language. I sort of just learnt what I needed to for a particular task and, through that knowledge grew. It was, I just became more proficient as I went along. I think it really helped that I I kind of had no kind of pressure because it was only ever personal projects in those early days or it was like a a quick and dirty piece of software to achieve a certain task. So it there there was no pressure to make great stuff. It was just make something that works. so it was a lot of space to learn, you know.

David: What what language you're using for what task or for what's something you pick up yourself.

Ashley: Yeah, and for the platform and and for the you know especially now in terms of the what they call the tech stack, i.e. the the frameworks you use for front end and back end and you know choosing the best stack for a particular application and making sure that your applications are not going to be obsolete in a year's time, 'cause the last thing you want to do is put tons of effort into coding something really good and then, a year down the line half your tech stack disappears and you've all of a sudden got to rebuild everything from scratch. and obviously these days, cross platform considerations are a big thing. W when I started out, you know the Maca was popular but it wasn't sort of encountering the sort of seismic shift that it is now where huge numbers of people are moving over to the Mac,, just in general.

David: I think especially on our side of the Atlantic where maybe Apple wouldn't have in in the eighties, the nineties wouldn't have been as as big probably over here as it was.

Ashley: In the early two thousands, the the mid PC still sort of dominated. and it wasn't really until the iPhone era and actually probably even really the iPad era that sort of the general computer users started picking up the Mac. so back then if you developed a program and you sort of intended to release it, then your sort of main consideration was well, make it a PC programme. whereas now you you start to think more cross platform and therefore you start to develop things with web technologies like electron, for example, so that your one code base can be cross platform. because otherwise you're developing the same app in several different languages to be native to a particular system and you know that's a lot to maintain so yeah I think it's something a lot of companies

David: are probably dealing with as well is like the advantages of native versus the economics of it all comes down to economics at the end of the day.

Ashley: I mean there is I don't think personally there is any argument for cross platform apps being better than a native app, other than the economics of maintenance and the number of users, I mean you look at the number of apps that are electron based now, like Discord for example, comes to mind or apps and Teams and Zoom and you know that would they be viable maybe for a big company True there's no problem developing for a minority user base, is there at the end of the day? And I think that's what the one of the things that kind of stunted the growth of the Mac was the apps just weren't there. Yeah, and the apps that were there were quite poor at times, you know. I'm thinking sort of back to the mid two thousands, the Mac had a lot of great creative apps, and it was always been the sort of platform for creativity, but in terms of your sort of general software,, even things like office suites and productivity solutions and things like that, it was always sort of that was just something you did on a PC, you know?

David: Yeah, a hundred percent. I I'm still a little bit in that in that world myself, I have to admit, in the sense of but that's more of an accessibility challenge I think than a a general one.

Ashley: Yeah, I think yeah. I think I haven't used a PC in quite a long time. but you know it's it swings and roundabouts, isn't it?

David: Yeah, absolutely. There's there's a whole there's plenty of conversations and we have them all the time on Offabus.com of Windows versus Mac and it can get a bit silly sometimes as well, but ultimately we all use the tool that we work that works for us, I suppose.

Ashley: And yeah, and we become familiar with the tool we use. I mean I was when I was a PC user I would have considered myself a b power user if not an expert user and I was extremely proficient. I could navigate a system at insane speed and you know I was really confident and I struggled when I first started learning the Mac. It was a real challenge and certainly to move over as a full-time user, which I did in twenty fourteen, it it was a real undertaking to to do that. But now I struggle to use a PC. I don't know my way around Windows eleven. I mean I can I can get by if I have to. but even simple tasks on a PC now like browsing the web, I just find it so cumbersome. and it's things like that I I would just do naturally on a Mac now.

David: Um Yeah. I think that's so important. That kind of muscle memory and not just yeah, familiarity because you get you do see a lot of kind of criticism of the Mac in that sense that oh it's it's more cumbersome to use than Windows but I think often it is just what you're what what comes naturally to you because you're doing it every day.

Ashley: And it's muscle memory, exactly. That's exactly the the term for it.

David: But I know I remember there was a conversation not too long ago about whether we could have a third party screen readers and Mac and I think that's one of the things that would help us probably on the Mac, but it's it's difficult. I know you you were part of that con you were involved in the conversation along with many others.

Ashley: Yeah there is work happening I know not just the originator of that conversation but somebody else is is currently working on that behind the scenes or or at least sort of the basis of something that that has potential. Unfortunately I don't think the particular project you mentioned is going to go anywhere, but that's another story for another day. But I think it's a difficult one because one of the things that we see in the PC space is fragmentation and where you end up with sort of five pieces of software that do most things well, but no no sort of one piece of software that does everything really well. and I think if you almost if you you have too many solutions, they all become a bit lackluster. you know That's not to say I wouldn't welcome a replacement for voiceover, but it's a difficult one. Is it outweighing the advantages of the tool being part of the system?

David: Yeah. It's it's true. And it's funny because people I do hear people sometimes sort of say, well, something like Jaws or Windows or even talk back on Android, even though it is built in, it's also they update it separately to the operating system. Yeah. But I I don't think that actually means it gets more updates. I just think you see the updates maybe Yeah,

Ashley: and one of the things that I I guess one of the arguments I've always had with Apple is if you can't find the bugs and if you can't fix it then document the APIs and make it open source. Let the community help. Or at least give us some kind of plug-in architecture or add-on architecture so that we can sort of improve it ourselves. but it it's a difficult one. I don't personally and I this is going to be controversial but I don't think it's as bad as people say it is. it's not perfect, like don't get me wrong, it it's not iOS level, but especially on the Mac. But it's it's usable, I d I don't have the majority of the sort of I I don't understand the majority of the I it's rubbish I, can't use it, I'm gonna become a Windows user. This is so awful kind of you know that's it's just simply not true. I I daily a Mac. I spend hours a day on a Mac. And if it wasn't usable I wouldn't be able to do that.

David: True. And how is it for coding?

Ashley: yeah, it's it's fine. It's it's I think a lot of it depends on the sort of verbosity that you expect as well. I mean I for me as a screen reader user, the less it talks the better. so funnily enough, one of the things I encountered in one of the recent apps I'm developing was for some well that there were some bugs initially that were preventing voiceover from reading certain things when certain verbosity options were switched on and it made me realise just how verbose some people have their tools. it's it it's crazy to me. but the first thing I do with any voiceover configuration is turn off most of the announcements and most of the hints and So it reads what I want it to at the end of the day. So I c for for me, coding with it is not a problem because if I command it to tell me something it will. whereas I know people sort of like that, high level of of output and high level of verbosity and I guess it's just different use cases, isn't it? But yeah,

David: I think probably text editing would probably be the main area I think people struggle with, and then depending on how you're coding, that may or may not affect you, maybe, or what programs you're using.

Ashley: It could be better. But again, te even text editing doesn't really bother me that much 'cause I I have it silent when I'm typing. I have it I d I don't have it read the punctuation out. It's it's I don't know, it I've just never I never have, I never have been one to have a very verbose screen reader. and I've just because of that I think I've never encountered any of the complaints that other people have and I I guess the only area where it really does bug me is terminal. just because we don't have the kind of level of of control in the terminal that we do with with screen readers that are better optimised for a command line. But yeah apart from that, I don't really have any issues with it. and that's not to say I never encounter any bugs, th I I encounter voiceover bugs but it they kind of y you get used to them and you find workarounds and yes they should be fixed and yes it is inexcusable to me that there are bugs that have existed for decades and not been resolved. But part of me feels like that's just the reality of the company we're dealing with.

David: Yeah, yeah, I suppose there's a there's a wide range of views out there, but there's definitely you're not alone. I've seen others kind of feel the same and it probably yeah, like you say it comes down to your own personal usage of the product ultimately, but I know I couldn't use it for my work, but that's because we're a Microsoft house really, you know what I mean? And it's just not not up to scratch, but I use Mac in my kind of personal, for doing podcasts or writing my own blogs or things like that, and it's it's pretty fine, much fine. So Yeah. you're working on there's probably one that's main one is similast that's been on the on the website recently but there are there are others I think as well but maybe you could start with that one.

Ashley: Yeah, so that's the main one. It's I was a downcast user. Well I am technically still a downcast user but downcast hasn't received any updates for a long time and I was trying a lot of the solutions like Overcastast, pocket c, etc. And they just didn't have the features I wanted, they didn't have the workflow that I wanted. The cross-device syncing kind of never really worked how I wanted it to. so I would say late last year, I think it was around November last year, I started developing my own client an initially I was almost gonna do sort of just a clone of downcast. but then I started thinking to myself, well, if I'm gonna develop a podcasting client, let's make it the most fully featured native podcasting client for all Apple platforms. So that encompasses Mac OS, iOS, T V OS, Watch OS, um, you know, the full works, um, even Vision OS and that's kind of what it's grown into you know over over the time it's um it it's just kind of there was a lot of sort of feature work at the start. , getting the the groundwork laid for a ton of features, way more than I could even remember, let alone go into. but yeah, it's it's sort of laying groundwork and and now we're sort of at the stage where some really great testers are helping me iron out the bugs and you know getting ever closer to release but it's it's been a really interesting project to work on. you know I've learnt a lot about Swift as I've gone along and it's almost diving in at the deep end with something quite complex. but but no, it's been a really interesting project and we're sort of at that final stage now of just sort of code hardening and and catching the remaining bugs. and hopefully get it in the app store by the end of the year, which would be nice.

David: Maybe we're in the world, yeah. I was I was wondering that actually, is it is it Swift and is it all Swift and what's it been like to learn that?

Ashley: So it's entirely Swift. and the idea was to keep it as native as possible but also to use as many relevant Apple APIs as possible. so It's been a real learning curve. it's my first app working with things like Siri, iCloud, Apple Intelligence, which are obviously some of the which are fairly new. so that's been quite an experience.

David: And iCloud notoriously flaky in the past.

Ashley: iCloud is great fun. Um yeah. It's that one's kind of a s an ongoing battle. but but no it's it's not actually my first Swift app. my first Swift app was an app called Levely, which is a highly accurate spirit level, which was born because I needed a way of levelling my turntable and I wanted to level my turntable to a degree that was much more accurate than the stock iOS Spirit Level app would allow.

David: Okay.

Ashley: So I developed Levely. And it that's not in the app store yet. I had a lot of issues with Apple's approval process. It was the first time I'd encountered their approval process, which has been an experience,, let's put it that way. and I will say that dealing with Apple as a developer has genuinely been one of the most frustrating experiences I've ever had as a developer. In fact I would go as far as to say that dealing with Apple is actually harder than writing the apps.

David: Well it's not good news and I've seen other developers we've seen other developers talk about their difficulty. I know we had another developer on the site with a game developer last week saying it's one of the reasons he's he's bringing his things to an end. You know what I mean? He's not going to develop games anymore for the platform, which is really sad.

Ashley: It is sad and I honestly I don't blame him because it's it's crazy. I mean the amount of money they take from the developer, it's a thirty percent cut on every sale. the complete lack of timely support, if I submit a support request, even if it's not a code level request, even if it's I'm having an issue with X code or something's broken in the website you know the the response time is like four days. you know bugs in test flight there are so many that I've encountered just not being fixed. So oh and the the tax forms as well, filling out the tax forms, especially as a UK developer who doesn't have a US tax status.

David: Of course.

Ashley: It it's it's crazy but it you know and then you've got to get through their approval process and one of the issues that I've encountered with their approval process is screenshots because they require certain size screenshots that sort of meet a very specific standard. and unfortunately a lot of their review the the sort of success or failure of their review process seems to depend on who you end up with because I've found so many apps in the App Store with screenshots that don't meet their requirements. Yet that was probably the main reason that when I went through the approval process with Levelly that was the the reason that I couldn't finish the approval process so that's kind of an ongoing thing So yeah, it I can see why developers are dropping out. And it's also going to be very interesting because obviously we've got this sort of new wave of AI developers vibe coding their apps now and a lot of them aren't gonna have experience you know in terms of getting an app from Xcode into App Store Connect and then sort of through the approval process. so it's gonna be interesting to see sort of how how they fare and you know how they get on.

David: Yeah, and you wonder will Apple will be is or maybe there has been even a ramp up in the number of apps being submitted to

Ashley: Apple and almost certainly.

David: how they're coping with that, maybe not great so far. Yeah.

Ashley: you know that's the the kind of concern for me, I guess. but I guess we'll see that again it's not something we have any influence over, so we just have to sort of keep fighting it and Yeah. play the system, I guess.

David: Yeah, ultimately. Ultimately that's true. yeah, it's really interesting though because both both the apps you've mentioned so far come from you is you've what you mentioned earlier is developing something that you needed yourself. I think often that's where the best ideas come from.

Ashley: Yeah. Yeah. I'll give you another example. I know I mentioned to you when we were chatting before an app called Audit that I have started developing. And one of the things I found when I sw switched to Mac was th the lack of a very comfortable to use audio editor for simple single track work. In my Windows days I was a Gold Wave user and I was extremely proficient in Goldwave. and I've tried all of the options since switching to Mac, I've I've tried Audacity, I've tried WavePad, I've tried Sound Studio, you know everything I can find. And I just never managed to find anything for single track audio that was as efficient as Goldwave. So Audit is kind of my answer to that. It's it's Goldwave modernised and reimagined for macOS so hopefully that'll be a project for next year to get that one finished and out into the world. yeah that'll be good and I'm sure

David: there's plenty of people listening who'll who'll be interested. I know any time there's audio apps mentioned at Apple Viz, there's there's always a good bit of interest in them. So I'd say I'd say this will be no different. yeah',s let go. And back on civilcast actually you've got you've got kind of podcasting in there, but you've gone is that kind of you know the fact you've added things like Apple Music, radio, that kind of thing. Is that the kind of thing when you say you looked at Stancast and I thought actually what else could I could I do here?

Ashley: Yeah, well I kind of looked at all the podcasting apps and I thought let's just take the best of all of them and and bring them into one native experience. And I think that's the key thing is is having a fully native experience because it's one of the things that really made Downcast a great app. , it had a really nice native UI, it was Mac OS iOS first. It had iCloud syncing that just worked. So yeah, I I started with the podcasting apps and then the internet radio was kind of an accident but sort of a a little bit petty as well. I the app was originally called Airwave when I started to develop it. And five days before I went to release the first build to test flight, I pushed the build to App Store Connect and it came up and said that my app name had been taken and I went on to the the app store and typed in Airwave and an app called Airwave which was an internet radio app, had been uploaded just a few days before. so I excited because I loved that name.

David: Yeah.

Ashley: But I downloaded this app and it was very Very I don't like to comment on the other developers' work but it was very poor. I think some AI was involved. it was it was very difficult to use just generally not what I would want in a radio app so I thought well why doesn't Simulcast have internet radio as well? , and that kinda grew as well because I thought, well, if I'm gonna do that I might as well do the best implementation of it that I can. So it kinda grew into a kind of main feature I guess. then Apple Music was a bit of an afterthought but it was a suggestion from a tester. one of the testers reached out and they wanted Shazam song recognition for radio and podcasts. So I started looking into Apple's Shazam kit and integrated that and then I thought well why not have Apple music support as well since we're building an Apple native app on Apple platforms. it just kinda it kinda made sense.

David: Yeah, I only very recently realized that it was even possible to integrate Apple Music in any way into into third party apps.

Ashley: No, I had no idea. Spotify obviously has their own podcast directory and some exclusive podcasts as well. And likewise Audible and Amazon Music because Amazon Music provides ad free podcasts for subscribers. and I think Audible provides exactly the same directory as well. Don't quote me on that, but I'm pretty sure they do. And Audible has exclusive podcasts so I try to implement those as well but unfortunately as yet there are no APIs for either of them but hopefully we can we can perhaps implement them in the future. but certainly the Apple stuff we can. So why not?

David: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. What's that managing the testing kind of side of things? What's that like? Have you done have you been through this kind of level of process before with with getting something out there?

Ashley: No, this is kind of my first time, and and it's been interesting. It's it's been kind of surprising the number of testers. I think there's something like four hundred testers now. and you really get feedback from a very, very small percentage. you get some testers who probably shouldn't be running beta software because they need a level of technical support that is kind of difficult to manage, shall we say, when you're trying to develop an app at the same time and you're trying to identify real bugs. but I've been really lucky with this one because I've got a few really good testers who are really putting it through its paces and you know giving me great feedback and you know helping me support those people who need it as well you know so I can focus my efforts on on developing which has been really useful and we've had some great conversations and a lot of the features that have come to the app in in recent months are from test of feedback directly you know it's really important and the other thing that's super important with testers is everyone has different devices. everyone has a different setup, everyone has a different collection of apps that all interact or conflict or you know whatever the case may be. So getting that app on as many people's devices as possible, makes a huge difference because an app that works perfectly for me may crash on another person's phone, you know.

David: Yeah. I'd imagine that's huge, yeah. And even like you said you were talking about earlier as well, the different voiceover settings and things like that, that's yeah, absolutely test every every configuration.

Ashley: Well I'll go back to the verbosity thing. I mean when the test are asked for that I I was kind of surprised and then I turned it on, thinking, Oh, I'll just turn it on and it'll just work and it didn't. And in reality I I'd used Apple's guidance for standard Swift UI interfaces, but it actually required quite a significant re architect of the UI to make that work. But it's not something I would ever have even thought about.

David: Yeah.

Ashley: Um even as a as voiceover user. you know it it just shows why it's hugely important.

David: Definitely. And yeah, it's why we want why we talk so much when we're talking even to the bigger companies, getting getting accessibility in on the ground floor and doing your testing with the actual users from beginning, all that kind of stuff. It shows it in practice why it's so important.

Ashley: And different users have different expectations. some users they want for example, one of the big things that's been implemented recently is really comprehensive support for the voiceover rotor. And again that's something that I don't really use that much. So this is

David: the actions kind of menu?

Ashley: So it it's not something I ever really thought about. I mean I use it a little bit, but I I never bothered configuring them. It's it's just one of those things that's there and sometimes I use it and some often I don't. but I never realized how popular that feature was. you know the app's kind of got really comprehensive support for that with configurable actions for basically every view in the app. but that's th that's just the way that some people work, that they they like to to use those very specific screen reader features. Yeah. Yeah, those those actions are a great example of that actually,

David: because like you say, some people absolutely wanted it everywhere that it could conceivably be, essentially. Because that's how they that's how they interact.

Ashley: But nothing nothing on that voiceover level. it was it was crazy and there were sort of actions that people would suggest and I think well why would you want that? But at the end of the day it's an app for everybody and it's got to be configurable for everybody. And the fact that a feature exists doesn't mean you have to use it.

David: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Ashley: And that's kind of my philosophy is put as many features in as you need because at the end of the day people can always turn it off.

David: Yeah, and for you is that is there any of a balance there to find between complexity and you know giving people as many options as they want, but not making the whole the UI and the settings and all that kind of stuff over complex. Is that difficult?

Ashley: I think you do have to be very considered in your approach to UI design. I know Simulcast has a huge amount of settings, and to be honest, even I forget where some of them are. But it's about being logical in how you organise things and for me I'm kind of of the opinion of well that's if someone really wants a feature and I can implement it then I will. I will try and make the kind of default setup as as lean as it can be. I don't want people to sort of be drowned in features out of the gate. But no, I I think versatility is a good thing and if you can have one app that does everything then why not? It's it's less apps you have to use, it's less things you have to learn, it's less different experiences. it I think it's i there is a balance. but I think if you implement the features well and if you're sensible about sort of how you handle the UI then I don't think complexity necessarily is a bad thing either.

David: Yeah. And like I say it's having those options compared and even yeah, organising them well but also those little explanations sometimes under explain what they act what they are 'cause you get you can get lost otherwise.

Ashley: Exactly, yeah. but then it that's all good UI design and you know that that's all in Apple's UI guidance, tooltips and subtitles and things like that. It's you know something that developers often overlook sadly, but I think you can have the most complex app in the world, but it can be still be easy to use.

David: Yeah, absolutely. And how do you find actually as a as a developer who isn't using apps visually yourself doing the kind of the UI side of things.

Ashley: That's for me is the one area where I do enlist the help of AI. Not necessarily to write the code but to sort of give me guidance. the great thing about Swift is the UI is written in code. so it's not like the old Objective C days where you would use the Xcode interface builder and you would sort of drag your objects around on the interface and then you would sort of link them all up in code. These days you can write a UI non-visually. One of the things that is kind of my next stage with this app is to head over to somewhere like Reddit probably for a their podcasting community, which is huge, and find some more testers specifically to give me some feedback on the UI. But Apple's guidance, I mean that their developer documentation to be fair is exceptional. They've got a lot of best practices. Their documentation on their UI framework and their sort of code examples are really good. So if you study that if you're very careful in the way you code, if you think about the devices that people are using and think about how they hold the device and how they interact with their device, then you can just design a passable UI without being It's good to hear.

David: And do you think the same thing as a as a blind developer that you think you think you do better because of it? Is that Mm possibly in the sense

Ashley: that I guess the UIs are sometimes more organised because I tend to group controls naturally and and things like that and I I mean I guess so, but I I think it's it depends how much effort any developer puts into their UI. I can design a terrible UI. and and for the someone like the quick and dirty apps that I've knocked up just to do sort of a simple thing for myself that are never going to be released. Some of them have horrendous UIs. but they work. But y you wouldn't want to look at them. so I I d I don't think don't think there's any real benefit necessarily. I think it it just when you can't see the UI you have to take a lot more care. Um Yeah. But the great thing about developing on Apple platforms as well and possibly Android as well, although I haven't done Android development in many years. But the great thing is a lot of the UI components, and things like standard controls, etcetera, they're all styled by the system. so yes you can change the styles, but you can sort of very easily get a UI that's very Apple like Yeah,

David: absolutely that's and that's what a lot of people like is that kind of familiar feel to an app almost across different apps that they're using.

Ashley: Exactly.

David: Very good. Yes, what's what's kind of next, what's your next few months looking like? I think I want to get

Ashley: this app released, I want to get Simulcast out there. I want to get levelly through the approval process just to sort of get a couple of apps in the store by the end of the year. hopefully there is an Apple T V version of Simulcus coming as well,, which hasn't reached any testers yet. so I need to get that out and and sort of get the ball rolling on that so I can get it released for V one. but no it it'll be just sort of you know getting that out there. This isn't my full time job, so it's it's kind of a I'm not rushing it but equally, there's testers who thankfully are super excited for it and and ready to start using it daily and some of them even are using it daily now. So it'd be nice to see it in the store and see it available for everybody. so yeah, just more testing and then the Apple approval process. So hoping to

David: land in

Ashley: the store late Fantastic.

David: And have you thought about kind of things like pricing and that kind of thing? Yes, or is that for later?

Ashley: Do you know it's interesting because I'm against subscriptions. I kind of feel like it's a very sad world when you don't own anything. And I know you don't own apps anyway these days, regardless of whether you pay for them or not. but I was always sort of of the opinion that it would be a lifetime purchase. but then some people pointed out that there's no harm in having a subscription and a lifetime purchase so it'll probably be around the thirty pound mark for a lifetime purchase and then maybe two ninety nine a month subscription. Levely will just be a simple one off purchase, maybe two ninety nine or something like that. and then we'll see with the other apps going forward. I mean it's you know it this is a learning thing for me. I've I've never done this, I've never put an app in the store. you know I've I've got to learn the marketing side of it as well and and you know learn how to get it out there and get it in front of people and you know there will be a seven day trial. fortunately, Apple's in app purchase system allows for that, so at least I can offer that. And one of the things that I am absolutely set on is you'll buy the app once or you'll subscribe to the app once and then you'll get it across all platforms. that's a very big thing for me.

David: So when you buy your Apple glasses in a couple of years. Yeah or your vision your Vision Pro.

Ashley: That's the current prices, but yeah.

David: Yeah, I think we're well off those ones, and that was all right. Realistically, well that's yeah, it's brilliant. It's it's great that you're able to do that. And that's you it's it's not your full-time job, it's not what you're depending on for an income, but it is something that you enjoy doing and that you can you can create something not just for yourself but something that other people will enjoy and yeah hopefully get get paid a little bit for it anyway, just for your for your for the work you're putting in. So Exactly.

Ashley: I think the thing is like I I was gonna make it anyway, and this is kind of the way I've always seen it is I was gonna build it, so if I'm gonna build it why don't I let other people use it and if they like it and they choose to support it financially then that's amazing and great and if they don't then there's plenty of other apps out there, you know. So but like you say I'm not dependent on it. I'm in that really fortunate position where I can just make stuff I like. So Yeah,

David: you're in a it's an amazing position really to be in actually to be able to go there's no app that for this or this I don't like this, I'm gonna make it myself. So yeah, it's it's brilliant and yeah well done on it. Um thank you. So yeah we can we can wrap up but do you is there yeah where people anywhere where people can follow you or find out more about your work or what's get updates that kind of thing?

Ashley: Yeah I've Ashleycox dot co dot uk is my main site. I've also got the blindman's workshop dot com which is kind of more of my other hobbies, woodworking, engineering, that kind of thing. so yeah, check me out there and I welcome any more testers on this and future apps, so always get in touch and we'll we'll link to the I

David: know there's a forum post ongoing about the the podcast app, so we'll we'll link to that in the sub in the description as well. And yeah, keep enjoying the the great sunshine that we're getting in this part of the world for once. However the next while don't don't be inside coding too much. Enjoy the sunshine.

Ashley: Bring on the rain as far as I'm concerned. It's too hot.

David: Okay, okay. Well on that note I would say thank you very much, Ashley, and yeah, enjoyed enjoyed the chat.

Ashley: Thank you. It was a pleasure and thanks for having me.