it seems to take forever to open an app or to get onto to the browser. I also noticed a very slow response in Outlook. I was just curious to know if Microsoft cares or if they will do anything about it. Probably not.
Well said sir.
I too have to keep updating to get latest screen reader features even on windows and make sure that my apps I rely on for CS don't have weird problem. I don't have time to fight the OS. Same goes for mac. Rather suffer with everybody at the same time than a borrowed time that could last 1 day or maybe more if I am lucky.
it sounds like you are having a hardware issue, if you're having problems with multiple keys, and perhaps poor battery usage as well. Is your Lenovo under warranty? Maybe you can get it serviced or replaced?
Well, the issue is with the keyboard, not the battery. The battery itself is actually decent, but I do notice performance drops when I’m working unplugged.
What I do know for sure is that this machine is brand new and has top-of-the-line specs, so there’s really no justification for this kind of fluctuating performance from a hardware standpoint.
I also feel that what I’m experiencing is something many people around the world deal with on Windows. So I really don’t appreciate it when people say that preferring macOS or MacBooks is childish, or that I’m trying to push others toward what I like. It’s neither hate nor childish—it’s simply based on my own experience.
I didn’t pursue things further with the dealer. They don’t have a replacement unit anyway, and returning it isn’t really an option for me—the dealer is far away, and I’d end up losing quite a bit on shipping.
So I decided to take matters into my own hands. I opened the bottom plate—took out five screws—removed the battery, and adjusted the keyboard’s flex cable. That seems to have fixed the issue for now.
I’m not entirely sure what did it—maybe just reseating the cable—but everything is working properly at the moment. Whether it will last is another question.
As for replacement, the keyboard itself costs around $28, but that doesn’t really help much. On this machine, you typically have to replace the entire upper section (the whole top case with the keyboard), which makes it a bigger and more expensive job.
So as long as the keyboard keeps working, I’m not looking to replace anything.
What I do know for certain is that the dealer won’t replace anything at this point. I’ve already opened the machine, and that has definitely voided the warranty.
I'm definitely not hating in general. And I don't necessarily hate on whatever OS people prefer...
I've just had bad experiences with VoiceOver on Mac, and it just doesn't work for me. I know I feel a sense of imposter syndrome, comparing myself to others, because I feel like I'm not "good enough" to sticking with the Apple ecosystem.
Windows has been a smoother experience and an experience that makes much more sense to my brain. I am, however, running a powerful custom-built gaming PC and a Lenovo business-grade laptop that still works good enough, but not without its issues (taking a million years to start up after restarting/shutting down). JAWS and NVDA make me feel capable, but I remember crying at the dining table trying to learn VoiceOver on my Mac back in 2019 and my feelings of frustration and anxiety led into 2020 and halfway through 2021.
I'm more comparing myself to sighted people, YouTubers and the like. The stupid image I have in my head of being a cute girl writing a story on my MacBook at a cafe. It's irrational, I'm aware, because I'm sure literally no-one cares about what OS you use other than those chronically online and in tech spaces.
I have thus far avoided wading into the discussion, but I did want to offer my own experience with solving performance issues on Windows in case it can help someone else.
Lenovo X1 Carbon
In 2019-2022, I used a Lenovo ThinkPad X1 Carbon 6th Generation--a top-of-the-line machine with supposedly great battery life and good (or so far I can recall from my memory of reading reviews at the time) performance. I experienced neither of those things. Battery life was horrible and when the system was unplugged, performance was too.
I found a couple things that increased JAWS responsiveness:
Uninstalling the Realtek audio driver and using the generic Microsoft driver. This did not work very well or for very long. But when it did work, JAWS was more responsive and the speakers did not seem to go to sleep as much.
There is also a program (whose name escapes me at the moment) available that plays silent noise in the background, to keep your sound card from going to sleep. This is IMHO worth a try if your issue is the sound card managing power too excessively.
Activating the "High Performance" power plan via Command Prompt. This sped the laptop right up though of course it was going at full tilt when on battery power, so battery life was even worse than it was already. But the laptop got up and went and this is definitely something I would try were I facing this same situation today. I don't recall if these are the exact instructions I used, but I had a quick Google and the instructions on this website seem like what I remember doing: https://thegeekpage.com/restore-missing-high-performance-power-plan/.
JAWS on Windows 11
Upon upgrading my Lenovo laptop to Windows 11 in November 2021, I observed that the system felt noticeably less responsive; and that was enough to have me downgrading back to Windows 10 in very short order. I did not attempt Windows 11 again until late 2023 (this time on a Dell Latitude 5420), and I experienced the same issues. A friend recommended uninstalling JAWS and removing all shared components, and reinstalling JAWS... And that fixed the issue. (After doing the uninstall, I also went in and manually deleted all of the folders the installer left behind.) If you haven't done a clean uninstall and reinstall of JAWS since upgrading to Windows 11, and you are having performance issues, I definitely recommend doing so.
Fair enough.
All I have to say is, several suggestions were recommended for speeding up your copy of Windows. Here, and in similar threads. Whether you choose to utilize the suggestions or not, is entirely up to you. As for your laptop keyboard, if you were able to take it apart and fix it yourself, then kudos to you. Myself, I would have simply taken it into a computer repair place, explain to them what I was experiencing, and let them repair it for me.
With regards to your laptop specs, while it's true that top of the line specs, and of course proper software implementation and configuration, should result in a better Windows experience for you, I seem to recall you mentioning earlier in this thread that you were uncertain about your laptop's processor, stating that earlier versions of said processor had better performance and optimization.
So...
If software configuration is the culprit behind why your version of Windows is not running at top performance, and you are not utilizing any of the suggestions provided to you in order to resolve this, as well as having a subpar processor in your computer, then you really can't complain that your Top-of-the-line computer should not have any issues with Windows 11.
Just my two cents. 🤷
Well, my IT department did just about everything to try and get Fusion to work on a laptop for me. They reset everything that can be reset, and did everything on HP, Lenovo, and Dell power laptops. Nothing appears to help with power throttling when the laptop is unplugggged.
I ended up buying a 100W 20MA battery bank, and my less than power laptop works like a dream, because it thinks it's plugged in.
Honestly, I do agree — Windows 11 kind of sucks compared to Windows 10. I have a gaming handheld device running Windows 11, supposed to be a powerful machine with 24GB of RAM. I debloated and tweaked it as much as I could to max out the performance, and for some reason it's still not as responsive as my Lenovo V14 with a 2019 processor, 8GB of RAM, running Windows 10. Alt-tabbing feels a bit sluggish on the gaming device — not terrible, but noticeable enough that I actually end up doing more work on my old Lenovo laptop, haha. Does anyone know why this is? Should I just reinstall Windows 11 with a modified version, like one of those Ghost builds or something? Battery life on the handheld is amazing though, so there's that.
Also, something worth paying attention to when buying a Windows laptop: if you go with a top-of-the-line gaming laptop for performance, don't expect good battery life. A handheld gaming device is kind of the exception to that rule. If battery life matters to you, go with a business-class laptop with an efficiency-focused, low-power processor — especially ARM-based ones like Snapdragon, where they've actually balanced performance and battery efficiency. Those can last 20 hours or more. Still not quite Mac territory, but 20 hours is honestly impressive. So yeah, do your research before buying. Not everything that looks almighty super ultra mega powerful is actually the better choice for you.
One last thing. I know this is AppleVis, so Apple is naturally the main focus here, but I've noticed some unfair treatment when it comes to other topics. People can trash Android and Windows all they want without any pushback, but the moment you say something critical about Apple — even if it's completely factual — you get a ton of resistance. It's like you've wounded their soul or something, lol. my issue is that how, despite being given a solution to their android/windows problem, they still like, na, nope, ain't doing that, my experience is already bad, and then bring up the same issue on the next topic for bashing sake.
It is interesting to hear everyone's experiences. Windows 11 and 10 has been much of a muchness for me. I am running Windows 11 on a custom-built gaming PC, I don't know the specs beyond 32GB RAM, and I'm running Windows 10 on a 2020 Lenovo ThinkBook (a business-grade laptop with i7 processor, 16GB RAM). My laptop has its hiccups - takes a million years to open up everything after logging in from a shut down or restart, the battery isn't great either (around 4 hours), and it's 15.6" so pretty wide (though not heavy). But it still works pretty well still, it's just a secondary device if I want to chill on the couch or in bed. No issues with either Windows 11 or 10 for me. :)
And yes, I know I probably should upgrade my Lenovo to Windows 11, I'm just lazy and don't use the laptop that often nowadays.
It seems that when it comes to truly accessible and enjoyable laptops, there are simply no interesting options, even when considering the top models.
If we talk about desktops, Windows PCs personally seem quite acceptable to me: NVDA performs well in almost all scenarios and Windows 11 does not interfere with productivity in any way. Perhaps it's a skill issue, but I can't achieve the same level of productivity on macOS with VoiceOver: without thinking, I can remember navigating large but poorly marked web pages; on Windows you can use PageDoun/PageUp, while on macOS it's a long and frustrating scroll through a lot of elements; or, for example, working in office applications, the tree structure, in relation to documents, simply seems less convenient; or, finally, coding, on Windows I can set up a separate profile for NVDA, in which I can set indentation reading and some other things; on macOS I can achieve something similar with VoiceOver Activities, but Screenreader feels noticeably less responsive, especially on large code files (several thousand lines).
However, things change dramatically when it comes to laptops. Just for context: I'm using a top-of-the-line Samsung Galaxy Book4 Pro with an Intel Ultra 7 155 processor, 32GB RAM and a 1TB SSD, with freshly installed Windows 11 Enterprise LTSC 24H2, without any bloatware from Microsoft or Samsung. However, despite everything described, the laptop's performance is disappointing: NVDA feels extremely unresponsive, especially when running on battery power. I tried various applications to play white noise to prevent the sound card from falling asleep, I tried removing the Realtek driver and using the Microsoft's one, I tried changing the power plan to high-performance, disabling various background services and startup applications, it seems I tried everything that can be found on the Internet to speed up Windows. Changing the power plan is the only thing that speeds up the system a little, but at the cost of a significant reduction in battery life. At the same time, the battery life leaves much to be desired, since it does not even approximately correspond to what is declared by the manufacturer.
But what's more strange is that all the problems described seem to be caused by using ScreenReader: I know someone who has the exact same laptop, but doesn't use ScreenReader, and there are no problems with performance or battery life. To rule out the possibility of hardware problems specifically for my instance, I tried using that laptop with ScreenReader, and also suggested trying to work for several hours on my device with NVDA turned off - the results changed to the opposite. Therefore, I don't know what exactly the problem is, I can only assume that it is a poorly written sound card driver that leads to rapid performance degradation when there is an intense flow of individual sound events caused by using TTS. However, without NVDA, the laptop demonstrates excellent performance even without system tweaks and complex optimizations, working for about 10 hours on a single charge, while when using ScreenReader, the performance feels like on an old Celeron, and the battery life of the laptop is no more than four hours.
At the same time, I recently had the opportunity to try the macBook AIR: also for context, I’ll point out that this is far from the maximum configuration, M3, 8GB RAM, 512GB SSD, the system is updated to the latest version, i.e. until 26.4. And even this configuration feels noticeably smoother, while allowing for about 18 hours of operation on a single charge.
To summarize, on the one hand we have Windows, which offers excellent accessibility but performs terribly on laptops, on the other we have macOS, the user experience of which is practically independent of whether ScreenReader is enabled, but the quality of this ScreenReader leaves much to be desired.
PS. I specifically did not consider the option of using a Windows laptop on power supply, because, firstly, most models, including mine, do not support pass-through power mode, when the laptop runs directly from the mains without charging the battery at all, and secondly, using the device without this mode will lead to even greater degradation of the already not very autonomous battery.
I'm curious about applications to run white noise in order to keep your sound card awake. Doesn't NVDA do this automatically? Also, there are NVDA add-ons that do this as well.
So not sure why you would need a separate application for this? Just asking for clarification here. 🙂
Also, your issues may be the operating system itself. You are using enterprise LTSC, which as I understand it is missing features found in Windows Home and Professional additions. It may be why NVDA is sluggish, why you have issues with your sound card, etc.
Just a thought. 😇
I started with the built-in function in NVDA, then tried add-ons for NVDA, then separate applications. Nothing helped.
As for Windows: initially I also freshly installed Windows 11 Home, with which this laptop is sold, but since its performance did not suit me, I decided to try LTSC, which does not come with UWP applications out of the box, and I can install the ones I need myself. LTSC performance, by the way, turned out to be better than the standard Home, but is still unacceptable for a premium laptop.
Fair enough.
I've said this before, but I cannot wrap my head around why some laptop configurations just do not seem to play well with Windows 11. I think you might be on to something though, Windows 11 on a desktop machine runs like a champ. While Windows 11 on the laptop is hit or miss. Every time.
Admittedly, I must have won the jackpot on laptops when I received mine. Because I just do not have the issues that others seem to have with Windows 11. And while my HP laptop is a mid range computer at best, it handles my needs well enough. Including a few mainstream games that I play on it, such as Mortal Kombat, SkullGirls, Forza Motorsports, and 1428: Shadows over Silesia.
With the exception of the new web based Outlook email client, of course. I don't know anyone who actually enjoys using that. Lol
Likewise, my laptop is great for academic purposes, which was the primary reason I received it to begin with. 🙂
Stefan , I think his family is not Kiss :) has made it. The language makes it a bit difficult to find / brows for so here it is. https://www.stefankiss.sk/silenzio
Latest version download link. https://www.stefankiss.sk/files/programy/Silenzio_2.1_setup.exe
This is one of the first things I always install. Always useful even when bluetooth audio cut is not the main issue to solve.
And no @Brian, I have tried but didn't like any screen reader built in ways to have white noise. Silenzio has never failed for me. Just try it.
I posted a suggestion. Saw it on youtube. The design are nice and looks cool. Is a laptop and tablet
. The keyboard can be remove.You only need $3500. Nuts. LLC.
or the Microsoft Surface Pro 12" in violet :) I love the form factor of the Surface Pro, but the idea of buying the keyboard separately and poor repairability makes me reluctant.
It's not just you struggling with MacOS. VoiceOver was my first desktop screen reader experience when I went blind in 2020. I had been using VoiceOver on my phone for quite a bit before that when outside, because my screen on my iPhone 8+ wouldn't get bright enough. But I remember crying at the dining table in 2019 trying to learn VO on the Mac using the Quick Start guide, and lots of frustrated tears following that. I knew I had to switch to Windows anyway for the workplace and I was curious about audio games, and luckily my dad had a HP desktop workstation lying around so I used that and it was like a breath of fresh air.
I pull out my M1 MacBook Air every once in a while. Using NVDA and JAWS is mostly pleasant and honestly, sometimes makes me enjoy being blind. And though I feel somewhat okay with VO, I just don't find it a positive experience for my use case (writing stories, using spreadsheets for D&D character sheets, web-browsing basically sums it up. But I also sometimes use Google's work suite, Kindle, OBs, and I do prefer Microsoft Office, none of which work particularly nice on Mac with VO. Pages is fine for story chapters; Numbers struggles with anything beyond the most basic budget spreadsheet, for instance. My D&D character sheet has multiple worksheets where they'll suddenly not read with VO but still appear as normal according to my sighted partner. That was my final straw with MacOS)
Basically, all that ramble is to say you're not alone with your experiences.
Check a poste of a labtop that I put from suggestion of Flossy Carter. He did a great review and describe the RAM, CPU and everything else as a beast. It has W11 pro. Good battery, the keyboard can be remove making it into a regular tablet similar to iPad. LLC.
It would be awesome but omg, that's gaming laptop territory at that price range (and I don't even know what that converts to in AUD). I like the idea, just waaaay out of my price range especially for a secondary device.
I’ve been out of the Windows world since 2010 when I got my first MacBook. I’ve been all iOS since 2017, but have been thinking I would get another PC if I need a computer again for more demanding tasks. This thread has me wondering about that.
Where’s our goldilocks laptop? It seems like the general consensus among blind people is that Windows is the better choice because the screen readers are better and more Full-featured. But Macs have a different, and some people think better OS and good performance but the screen reader isn’t as good.
This thread makes it sound like you have to buy a max specked out gaming laptop just to get minimally acceptable performance if you use a screen reader. Why should you have to install another program just so you can use your screen reader without your speech cutting off? Or mess with a bunch of settings just to improve performance and try to get a little bit better battery life. I wonder why the screen readers are such a battery life suck? Is that just an NVDA and JAWS thing? Does the same thing happen with Narrator?
I want a bloat-free Windows laptop with the build quality of a MacBook, that also lets me totally reinstall Windows if I need to without sight and not having to download and install yet another program to do it. That was the thing that made me jump to a MacBook in 2010. I never had To reinstall MacOS, but I liked the peace of mind of knowing I could if I needed to. I would hope that doing a clean install if you needed to on Windows has become more accessible since.
I know the Microsoft store used to have “signature laptops” that were supposed to be sold without any of the bloatware that companies like HP, Dell, Lenovo ETC. usually have. I don’t know if they still do that. On paper, a Surface laptop sounds like it would be perfect because they’re made by MS, so in theory they wouldn’t have all the extra software and I think they’re built well. Although I haven’t seen one in a few years. Then there’s those Framework laptops, but they are aimed more at the people who like to tinker and I think are also more premium.
The Signature laptops were awesome. My ex used to have one, hers was a Lenovo, running Windows 10 at the time. This would've been a little over a decade ago, but it was one of the cleanest builds of windows I've ever had the pleasure of experiencing. The only other comparison to that, would be my BootCamp copy of Windows 10 on my Intel-based MacBook Pro during my college days. As for requiring software too, "fix", sound card issues, I've never really had this problem, which is why I say I just don't understand why some people do and some people don't. I just use NVDA as it is, granted I do have add-ons for other features and functionality, but nothing to do with audio.
As for requiring a gaming beast just to get productivity done, no, you do not need that at all. My laptop specs are basically the following:
Windows 11 latest public release. I stay away from Insider builds like the plague.
NVDA latest bill.
3 GHz AMD Ryzen, with AMD Radeon graphics.
Realtek sound card. Yes I know everybody fears Realtek, but I don't have any problems with mine. 🤷
16GB RAM.
1TB onboard storage, plus 1TB of remote storage via OneDrive.
As I have stated here and elsewhere, I just don't have the problems others have with their copy of Windows, with NVDA, or any of that. The one thing I can say I do struggle with, and therefore do not use, is the newer Outlook email client. That thing is just got awful.
Finally, removing bloatware from my laptop was very straightforward. Admittedly, I could just download the Microsoft install tool, and create an installable clean version of Windows, but there's really no reason for it.
I would say the Microsoft Surface laptops. Should be pretty bloatware-free, pretty good battery life and build quality feels almost similar to a MacBook in my opinion.
So I've been using this application for a little while now. Admittedly, it's not bad. It is a super light weight application, that you don't even notice running in the background. I can also see the appeal over using any of the NVDA add-ons that do basically the same thing. With Silencio you get the functionality, even if you switch screen readers, or disable the screen reading altogether. So kudos for that.
@TheBlindGuy07,
Comments
@Hmc
Well said sir.
I too have to keep updating to get latest screen reader features even on windows and make sure that my apps I rely on for CS don't have weird problem. I don't have time to fight the OS. Same goes for mac. Rather suffer with everybody at the same time than a borrowed time that could last 1 day or maybe more if I am lucky.
@Maldalain, Re: Lenovo
it sounds like you are having a hardware issue, if you're having problems with multiple keys, and perhaps poor battery usage as well. Is your Lenovo under warranty? Maybe you can get it serviced or replaced?
@Brian
Well, the issue is with the keyboard, not the battery. The battery itself is actually decent, but I do notice performance drops when I’m working unplugged.
What I do know for sure is that this machine is brand new and has top-of-the-line specs, so there’s really no justification for this kind of fluctuating performance from a hardware standpoint.
I also feel that what I’m experiencing is something many people around the world deal with on Windows. So I really don’t appreciate it when people say that preferring macOS or MacBooks is childish, or that I’m trying to push others toward what I like. It’s neither hate nor childish—it’s simply based on my own experience.
I didn’t pursue things further with the dealer. They don’t have a replacement unit anyway, and returning it isn’t really an option for me—the dealer is far away, and I’d end up losing quite a bit on shipping.
So I decided to take matters into my own hands. I opened the bottom plate—took out five screws—removed the battery, and adjusted the keyboard’s flex cable. That seems to have fixed the issue for now.
I’m not entirely sure what did it—maybe just reseating the cable—but everything is working properly at the moment. Whether it will last is another question.
As for replacement, the keyboard itself costs around $28, but that doesn’t really help much. On this machine, you typically have to replace the entire upper section (the whole top case with the keyboard), which makes it a bigger and more expensive job.
So as long as the keyboard keeps working, I’m not looking to replace anything.
What I do know for certain is that the dealer won’t replace anything at this point. I’ve already opened the machine, and that has definitely voided the warranty.
Maldalain
I'm definitely not hating in general. And I don't necessarily hate on whatever OS people prefer...
I've just had bad experiences with VoiceOver on Mac, and it just doesn't work for me. I know I feel a sense of imposter syndrome, comparing myself to others, because I feel like I'm not "good enough" to sticking with the Apple ecosystem.
Windows has been a smoother experience and an experience that makes much more sense to my brain. I am, however, running a powerful custom-built gaming PC and a Lenovo business-grade laptop that still works good enough, but not without its issues (taking a million years to start up after restarting/shutting down). JAWS and NVDA make me feel capable, but I remember crying at the dining table trying to learn VoiceOver on my Mac back in 2019 and my feelings of frustration and anxiety led into 2020 and halfway through 2021.
I'm more comparing myself to sighted people, YouTubers and the like. The stupid image I have in my head of being a cute girl writing a story on my MacBook at a cafe. It's irrational, I'm aware, because I'm sure literally no-one cares about what OS you use other than those chronically online and in tech spaces.
My Experience with Performance Issues on Windows
I have thus far avoided wading into the discussion, but I did want to offer my own experience with solving performance issues on Windows in case it can help someone else.
Lenovo X1 Carbon
In 2019-2022, I used a Lenovo ThinkPad X1 Carbon 6th Generation--a top-of-the-line machine with supposedly great battery life and good (or so far I can recall from my memory of reading reviews at the time) performance. I experienced neither of those things. Battery life was horrible and when the system was unplugged, performance was too.
I found a couple things that increased JAWS responsiveness:
JAWS on Windows 11
Upon upgrading my Lenovo laptop to Windows 11 in November 2021, I observed that the system felt noticeably less responsive; and that was enough to have me downgrading back to Windows 10 in very short order. I did not attempt Windows 11 again until late 2023 (this time on a Dell Latitude 5420), and I experienced the same issues. A friend recommended uninstalling JAWS and removing all shared components, and reinstalling JAWS... And that fixed the issue. (After doing the uninstall, I also went in and manually deleted all of the folders the installer left behind.) If you haven't done a clean uninstall and reinstall of JAWS since upgrading to Windows 11, and you are having performance issues, I definitely recommend doing so.
Chamomile
Owning a Mac, a cute girl does not make. 😜✌🏻
Maldalain
Fair enough.
All I have to say is, several suggestions were recommended for speeding up your copy of Windows. Here, and in similar threads. Whether you choose to utilize the suggestions or not, is entirely up to you. As for your laptop keyboard, if you were able to take it apart and fix it yourself, then kudos to you. Myself, I would have simply taken it into a computer repair place, explain to them what I was experiencing, and let them repair it for me.
With regards to your laptop specs, while it's true that top of the line specs, and of course proper software implementation and configuration, should result in a better Windows experience for you, I seem to recall you mentioning earlier in this thread that you were uncertain about your laptop's processor, stating that earlier versions of said processor had better performance and optimization.
So...
If software configuration is the culprit behind why your version of Windows is not running at top performance, and you are not utilizing any of the suggestions provided to you in order to resolve this, as well as having a subpar processor in your computer, then you really can't complain that your Top-of-the-line computer should not have any issues with Windows 11.
Just my two cents. 🤷
Lying to my laptop, and never been happier
Well, my IT department did just about everything to try and get Fusion to work on a laptop for me. They reset everything that can be reset, and did everything on HP, Lenovo, and Dell power laptops. Nothing appears to help with power throttling when the laptop is unplugggged.
I ended up buying a 100W 20MA battery bank, and my less than power laptop works like a dream, because it thinks it's plugged in.
Louise
Truly, I think you have the best tip on this thread. 😁👍
windows 11
Honestly, I do agree — Windows 11 kind of sucks compared to Windows 10. I have a gaming handheld device running Windows 11, supposed to be a powerful machine with 24GB of RAM. I debloated and tweaked it as much as I could to max out the performance, and for some reason it's still not as responsive as my Lenovo V14 with a 2019 processor, 8GB of RAM, running Windows 10. Alt-tabbing feels a bit sluggish on the gaming device — not terrible, but noticeable enough that I actually end up doing more work on my old Lenovo laptop, haha. Does anyone know why this is? Should I just reinstall Windows 11 with a modified version, like one of those Ghost builds or something? Battery life on the handheld is amazing though, so there's that.
Also, something worth paying attention to when buying a Windows laptop: if you go with a top-of-the-line gaming laptop for performance, don't expect good battery life. A handheld gaming device is kind of the exception to that rule. If battery life matters to you, go with a business-class laptop with an efficiency-focused, low-power processor — especially ARM-based ones like Snapdragon, where they've actually balanced performance and battery efficiency. Those can last 20 hours or more. Still not quite Mac territory, but 20 hours is honestly impressive. So yeah, do your research before buying. Not everything that looks almighty super ultra mega powerful is actually the better choice for you.
One last thing. I know this is AppleVis, so Apple is naturally the main focus here, but I've noticed some unfair treatment when it comes to other topics. People can trash Android and Windows all they want without any pushback, but the moment you say something critical about Apple — even if it's completely factual — you get a ton of resistance. It's like you've wounded their soul or something, lol. my issue is that how, despite being given a solution to their android/windows problem, they still like, na, nope, ain't doing that, my experience is already bad, and then bring up the same issue on the next topic for bashing sake.
Muhammad
What laptops would you recommend?
It is interesting to hear everyone's experiences. Windows 11 and 10 has been much of a muchness for me. I am running Windows 11 on a custom-built gaming PC, I don't know the specs beyond 32GB RAM, and I'm running Windows 10 on a 2020 Lenovo ThinkBook (a business-grade laptop with i7 processor, 16GB RAM). My laptop has its hiccups - takes a million years to open up everything after logging in from a shut down or restart, the battery isn't great either (around 4 hours), and it's 15.6" so pretty wide (though not heavy). But it still works pretty well still, it's just a secondary device if I want to chill on the couch or in bed. No issues with either Windows 11 or 10 for me. :)
And yes, I know I probably should upgrade my Lenovo to Windows 11, I'm just lazy and don't use the laptop that often nowadays.
There's no perfection
It seems that when it comes to truly accessible and enjoyable laptops, there are simply no interesting options, even when considering the top models.
If we talk about desktops, Windows PCs personally seem quite acceptable to me: NVDA performs well in almost all scenarios and Windows 11 does not interfere with productivity in any way. Perhaps it's a skill issue, but I can't achieve the same level of productivity on macOS with VoiceOver: without thinking, I can remember navigating large but poorly marked web pages; on Windows you can use PageDoun/PageUp, while on macOS it's a long and frustrating scroll through a lot of elements; or, for example, working in office applications, the tree structure, in relation to documents, simply seems less convenient; or, finally, coding, on Windows I can set up a separate profile for NVDA, in which I can set indentation reading and some other things; on macOS I can achieve something similar with VoiceOver Activities, but Screenreader feels noticeably less responsive, especially on large code files (several thousand lines).
However, things change dramatically when it comes to laptops. Just for context: I'm using a top-of-the-line Samsung Galaxy Book4 Pro with an Intel Ultra 7 155 processor, 32GB RAM and a 1TB SSD, with freshly installed Windows 11 Enterprise LTSC 24H2, without any bloatware from Microsoft or Samsung. However, despite everything described, the laptop's performance is disappointing: NVDA feels extremely unresponsive, especially when running on battery power. I tried various applications to play white noise to prevent the sound card from falling asleep, I tried removing the Realtek driver and using the Microsoft's one, I tried changing the power plan to high-performance, disabling various background services and startup applications, it seems I tried everything that can be found on the Internet to speed up Windows. Changing the power plan is the only thing that speeds up the system a little, but at the cost of a significant reduction in battery life. At the same time, the battery life leaves much to be desired, since it does not even approximately correspond to what is declared by the manufacturer.
But what's more strange is that all the problems described seem to be caused by using ScreenReader: I know someone who has the exact same laptop, but doesn't use ScreenReader, and there are no problems with performance or battery life. To rule out the possibility of hardware problems specifically for my instance, I tried using that laptop with ScreenReader, and also suggested trying to work for several hours on my device with NVDA turned off - the results changed to the opposite. Therefore, I don't know what exactly the problem is, I can only assume that it is a poorly written sound card driver that leads to rapid performance degradation when there is an intense flow of individual sound events caused by using TTS. However, without NVDA, the laptop demonstrates excellent performance even without system tweaks and complex optimizations, working for about 10 hours on a single charge, while when using ScreenReader, the performance feels like on an old Celeron, and the battery life of the laptop is no more than four hours.
At the same time, I recently had the opportunity to try the macBook AIR: also for context, I’ll point out that this is far from the maximum configuration, M3, 8GB RAM, 512GB SSD, the system is updated to the latest version, i.e. until 26.4. And even this configuration feels noticeably smoother, while allowing for about 18 hours of operation on a single charge.
To summarize, on the one hand we have Windows, which offers excellent accessibility but performs terribly on laptops, on the other we have macOS, the user experience of which is practically independent of whether ScreenReader is enabled, but the quality of this ScreenReader leaves much to be desired.
PS. I specifically did not consider the option of using a Windows laptop on power supply, because, firstly, most models, including mine, do not support pass-through power mode, when the laptop runs directly from the mains without charging the battery at all, and secondly, using the device without this mode will lead to even greater degradation of the already not very autonomous battery.
Re: White noise
I'm curious about applications to run white noise in order to keep your sound card awake. Doesn't NVDA do this automatically? Also, there are NVDA add-ons that do this as well.
So not sure why you would need a separate application for this? Just asking for clarification here. 🙂
Also, your issues may be the operating system itself. You are using enterprise LTSC, which as I understand it is missing features found in Windows Home and Professional additions. It may be why NVDA is sluggish, why you have issues with your sound card, etc.
Just a thought. 😇
Re: Brian
I started with the built-in function in NVDA, then tried add-ons for NVDA, then separate applications. Nothing helped.
As for Windows: initially I also freshly installed Windows 11 Home, with which this laptop is sold, but since its performance did not suit me, I decided to try LTSC, which does not come with UWP applications out of the box, and I can install the ones I need myself. LTSC performance, by the way, turned out to be better than the standard Home, but is still unacceptable for a premium laptop.
user26335377
Fair enough.
I've said this before, but I cannot wrap my head around why some laptop configurations just do not seem to play well with Windows 11. I think you might be on to something though, Windows 11 on a desktop machine runs like a champ. While Windows 11 on the laptop is hit or miss. Every time.
Admittedly, I must have won the jackpot on laptops when I received mine. Because I just do not have the issues that others seem to have with Windows 11. And while my HP laptop is a mid range computer at best, it handles my needs well enough. Including a few mainstream games that I play on it, such as Mortal Kombat, SkullGirls, Forza Motorsports, and 1428: Shadows over Silesia.
With the exception of the new web based Outlook email client, of course. I don't know anyone who actually enjoys using that. Lol
Likewise, my laptop is great for academic purposes, which was the primary reason I received it to begin with. 🙂
Silenzio is what you were looking for @Michael I think
Stefan , I think his family is not Kiss :) has made it. The language makes it a bit difficult to find / brows for so here it is.
https://www.stefankiss.sk/silenzio
Latest version download link.
https://www.stefankiss.sk/files/programy/Silenzio_2.1_setup.exe
This is one of the first things I always install. Always useful even when bluetooth audio cut is not the main issue to solve.
And no @Brian, I have tried but didn't like any screen reader built in ways to have white noise. Silenzio has never failed for me. Just try it.
Chamomile
I posted a suggestion. Saw it on youtube. The design are nice and looks cool. Is a laptop and tablet
. The keyboard can be remove.You only need $3500. Nuts. LLC.
Holger
Not sure what you're referring to exactly, but if I were to upgrade my laptop, there's 2 I have in mind. This Lenovo Yoga Slim 7, either the Core Ultra 5 or 7 models: https://www.officeworks.com.au/shop/officeworks/p/lenovo-14-yoga-slim-7i-oled-core-ultra-5-16-512gb-ai-pc-lenyg0dsau
or the Microsoft Surface Pro 12" in violet :) I love the form factor of the Surface Pro, but the idea of buying the keyboard separately and poor repairability makes me reluctant.
user26335377
It's not just you struggling with MacOS. VoiceOver was my first desktop screen reader experience when I went blind in 2020. I had been using VoiceOver on my phone for quite a bit before that when outside, because my screen on my iPhone 8+ wouldn't get bright enough. But I remember crying at the dining table in 2019 trying to learn VO on the Mac using the Quick Start guide, and lots of frustrated tears following that. I knew I had to switch to Windows anyway for the workplace and I was curious about audio games, and luckily my dad had a HP desktop workstation lying around so I used that and it was like a breath of fresh air.
I pull out my M1 MacBook Air every once in a while. Using NVDA and JAWS is mostly pleasant and honestly, sometimes makes me enjoy being blind. And though I feel somewhat okay with VO, I just don't find it a positive experience for my use case (writing stories, using spreadsheets for D&D character sheets, web-browsing basically sums it up. But I also sometimes use Google's work suite, Kindle, OBs, and I do prefer Microsoft Office, none of which work particularly nice on Mac with VO. Pages is fine for story chapters; Numbers struggles with anything beyond the most basic budget spreadsheet, for instance. My D&D character sheet has multiple worksheets where they'll suddenly not read with VO but still appear as normal according to my sighted partner. That was my final straw with MacOS)
Basically, all that ramble is to say you're not alone with your experiences.
Chamomile
Check a poste of a labtop that I put from suggestion of Flossy Carter. He did a great review and describe the RAM, CPU and everything else as a beast. It has W11 pro. Good battery, the keyboard can be remove making it into a regular tablet similar to iPad. LLC.
Holger
For $3500, it had better make me a damn cup of coffee in the morning as well!
@Brian
Gosh man you got me laughing at this. 3500 dollars is insane.
I like the idea
It would be awesome but omg, that's gaming laptop territory at that price range (and I don't even know what that converts to in AUD). I like the idea, just waaaay out of my price range especially for a secondary device.
Goldilocks
I’ve been out of the Windows world since 2010 when I got my first MacBook. I’ve been all iOS since 2017, but have been thinking I would get another PC if I need a computer again for more demanding tasks. This thread has me wondering about that.
Where’s our goldilocks laptop? It seems like the general consensus among blind people is that Windows is the better choice because the screen readers are better and more Full-featured. But Macs have a different, and some people think better OS and good performance but the screen reader isn’t as good.
This thread makes it sound like you have to buy a max specked out gaming laptop just to get minimally acceptable performance if you use a screen reader. Why should you have to install another program just so you can use your screen reader without your speech cutting off? Or mess with a bunch of settings just to improve performance and try to get a little bit better battery life. I wonder why the screen readers are such a battery life suck? Is that just an NVDA and JAWS thing? Does the same thing happen with Narrator?
I want a bloat-free Windows laptop with the build quality of a MacBook, that also lets me totally reinstall Windows if I need to without sight and not having to download and install yet another program to do it. That was the thing that made me jump to a MacBook in 2010. I never had To reinstall MacOS, but I liked the peace of mind of knowing I could if I needed to. I would hope that doing a clean install if you needed to on Windows has become more accessible since.
I know the Microsoft store used to have “signature laptops” that were supposed to be sold without any of the bloatware that companies like HP, Dell, Lenovo ETC. usually have. I don’t know if they still do that. On paper, a Surface laptop sounds like it would be perfect because they’re made by MS, so in theory they wouldn’t have all the extra software and I think they’re built well. Although I haven’t seen one in a few years. Then there’s those Framework laptops, but they are aimed more at the people who like to tinker and I think are also more premium.
Brian Giles
The Signature laptops were awesome. My ex used to have one, hers was a Lenovo, running Windows 10 at the time. This would've been a little over a decade ago, but it was one of the cleanest builds of windows I've ever had the pleasure of experiencing. The only other comparison to that, would be my BootCamp copy of Windows 10 on my Intel-based MacBook Pro during my college days. As for requiring software too, "fix", sound card issues, I've never really had this problem, which is why I say I just don't understand why some people do and some people don't. I just use NVDA as it is, granted I do have add-ons for other features and functionality, but nothing to do with audio.
As for requiring a gaming beast just to get productivity done, no, you do not need that at all. My laptop specs are basically the following:
Windows 11 latest public release. I stay away from Insider builds like the plague.
NVDA latest bill.
3 GHz AMD Ryzen, with AMD Radeon graphics.
Realtek sound card. Yes I know everybody fears Realtek, but I don't have any problems with mine. 🤷
16GB RAM.
1TB onboard storage, plus 1TB of remote storage via OneDrive.
As I have stated here and elsewhere, I just don't have the problems others have with their copy of Windows, with NVDA, or any of that. The one thing I can say I do struggle with, and therefore do not use, is the newer Outlook email client. That thing is just got awful.
Finally, removing bloatware from my laptop was very straightforward. Admittedly, I could just download the Microsoft install tool, and create an installable clean version of Windows, but there's really no reason for it.
HTH.
Brian
Not just coffee but cook and make my bed. Long live cats.
Brian Giles
I would say the Microsoft Surface laptops. Should be pretty bloatware-free, pretty good battery life and build quality feels almost similar to a MacBook in my opinion.
Re: Silenzio
So I've been using this application for a little while now. Admittedly, it's not bad. It is a super light weight application, that you don't even notice running in the background. I can also see the appeal over using any of the NVDA add-ons that do basically the same thing. With Silencio you get the functionality, even if you switch screen readers, or disable the screen reading altogether. So kudos for that.
@TheBlindGuy07,
Thanks for the recommendation. 👍😀