This is not another Windows Mac Debate: Helping a friend to get her a new Windows laptop

The most difficult challenge will be finding a keyboard that meets her needs. For most of us, unless we know, we have no clue which computer has the best keyboard.
If the keyboard wasn't the issue, I would recommend my own laptop. Even though I did not choose this model for myself, it has been a joy to work with. It has excellent sound, both in volume and quality. It also has its speakers located on the keyboard surface of the device, maybe an inch or 3 above the function keys. So no bottom of the barrel sound as you might expect on a laptop with speakers on the bottom...

Seriously, who thought, that, was a good idea? 🙄

The keyboard on mine is nice (for me), but may not satisfy her needs. While I feel the key spacing is adequate, it may feel a bit cluttered to her. Also my, 6 pack keys, are not in a traditional layout. Starting at the top-right most key, we have Delete. Two to the left finds the Print Screen and Insert keys. Going straight down from Delete, we have Home, Page Up, Page Down, End, and right arrow.

Think of the number 7, or an upside down capital 'L'.

The arrow keys are also not the traditional upside down letter 'T'. Instead they are a full sized left and right arrows, with thin up and down arrows in a uniform rectangle format.

In fact the entire keyboard is a uniform rectangle, with every key evenly spaced. As I said, adequate for me, but not for everyone. 😅

Her best option might be to go with a Lenovo model. They seem to be great all around computers, and as I understand it, are the only company that makes an accessible BIOS app.

Otherwise, just tell her to get a laptop of her choice, but make sure the speakers/sound are good, and invest in a mechanical hardware keyboard.

HTH.

This is what I am using. Provided for me in early 2024 by my VR Counselor so I could complete a series of Cisco Network Academy courses for certs in networking and cybersecurity.

One nice feature about this model, is that it has a dedicated Pause/Break key with the FN key + right Shift. I doubt my counselor knew about it, but its amazing for certain command-line functions, such as Ping. 😁

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BY3PGDZR/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1

As for the Lenovo keyboards, I am not really sure. I will say my ex had a sweet Lenovo back in 2015 iirc, and it only had the traditional marks at the lower edge of the, F, and, J, keys. 🤷

I had an HP, granted I paid about $400 for it. I did not like it. It started dying after about a year. The Lenovo I had, now discontinued, was about double the price, but it's been going since I bought it in 2020, and it's still going since I sold it to my sister-in-law last year, and she loves it.

We did have to replace the keyboard just before I sold it, so after almost five years of use. I forget why, but it had to happen. I haven't used any of the new Arm laptops but people seem to be impressed by their battery life.

My wife's testing laptops for work and I think she got a new Intel surface. Standby battery life was pretty decent, over a couple of days of sleep I think she said it went from 64% to 56% maybe. So maybe a decent non-Arm laptop would give you pretty good battery even.

Good luck!

My ex's Lenovo Signature Edition was like that; lasted several years running stock Windows 10. I wish I could remember the model. All I know is that it could flip its lid over to become a tablet. I know its hit or miss when it comes to HP, and as I mentioned, I did not pick this model out for myself. Still it is 2 years and still running like new, so I can't complain. 😊

I was going to suggest Lenovo (Yoga/ThinkPad/) but really, I think the Microsoft Surface laptop might be the best option for her. It feels almost similar to a Mac, the keyboard and speakers are nice, and it is very portable.

**Apparently**, the newer surfaces are with the good old intel with an x86 chip. But check your sources (not me). That's just what I heard.

It depends on what she does, hopefully the Snapdragon processor would be okay. Otherwise, hopefully those rumours are true and the new Surface laptops do come out with Intel. :)

I do have a Surface laptop for work and minus the lack of ports, it's great.

I also really like the look of the Lenovo Yoga Slim 7/7i series. They seem to meet what your friend would need, come in Intel and maybe AMD, the keyboards are great (I have felt one with the markings that were mentioned), speakers seem decent (I'm a headphone person though). I can't comment on battery life, but I believe it would be pretty good.

I would suggest Asus Zenbook (I can't remember the exact model now). I've been using it since 2023 and I like it (maybe I'll consider going for Asus Zenbook again when I change my personal laptop). The battery unfortunately doesn't really last all day though, so that might be a drawback.
The keyboard is good, I enjoy typing on it. It feels just like a standard laptop, and the area where the arrow keys are is actually an inverted T shape.
And BTW, the My Asus app is very accessible with NVDA, so performing driver updates through the app is possible using NVDA.
The speaker is pretty good, and in the My Asus app you can actually customize how it sounds.

Service laptops with 32 bit processing?
Why???

On my work laptop, I've sat in a 4 hour training module with my laptop going from 100% to 30% and I'd consider that pretty good. The audio, the one time I've used the speakers, has been pretty good. Not as clear as a MacBook, but it is good. Again, I'm a headphone person, and I'm also comparing it to my Lenovo ThinkBook, with battery lasting 3-4 hours and the speakers being terrible.

Headphones are a must if you work in an office-type setting, especially if you work in a cubicle or just in a work area where each employee has their own workstation, etc. We tend to fit in better if our workhorse laptops are not reading aloud from the screen-reader where everyone else can hear it.
Not to mention if you where a over-the-ear headset, you can tune out the world, which is what I prefer to do in an office setting. 😇

Having said that, those random times where a supervisor or upper management type absolutely had to be shown something on our particular laptop, its good to have decent-sounding speakers. 😳

I believe Asus still makes Zenbook models with x86 processors, the one I got has an Intel processor inside it.

If this person gets an ARM-based PC, battery life may be significantly impacted if they use NVDA, as to the best of my knowledge, NVDA does not have an ARM-native version, requiring it to run in emulation.

This thread may answer some of your questions.

https://applevis.com/forum/windows/10-day-review-surface-laptop-7

The 64bit version of NVDA currently being developed might do better on ARM processors, than the 32bit versions of NVDA that have existed for, well, ever. 🤷‍♂️

Honestly, it's hard to recommend a specific model of laptop. For my day job, we recommend laptops to customers regularly, and rather than recommending a specific model, here are a few things to keep in mind.

First, for a Windows PC, there are a few specs that make all the difference.
I wouldn't go with the bargain basement priced computers because you get what you pay for. You can still get a pretty great computer though for around $1000 or so, not counting the rampocalypse that's happening now. I don't know how much prices have gone up.

The two major specs I'd consider are RAM and hard drive.
I'd recommend 16 GB minimum, but go 32 GB if you can afford it.
Also make sure the laptop has an SSD, solid state drive, probably 500 GB to 1TB. I wouldn't even consider a laptop with a spinning drive any more. Things load so much faster with an SSD, it's not even close.

Remember, in addition to all the regular programs like browsers, word processors, etc., you are also running screen readers, which most people don't have to worry about. That also takes up some RAM. If you get a a machine with these specs, it should last several years easily.

After getting the computer, I also highly recommend getting rid of any additional antivirus software typically installed like McAfee or Norton. These are major resource hogs, and the computer will run much better without them. Windows Defender is fine for most people.

As for the keyboards, I'd just have them visit a Best Buy or similar store, and see what feels comfortable to use. Also keep in mind that someone may or may not want a number pad. If they like having this, 15 inch laptops are about the smallest size that can fit a number pad. There are plenty of 15 to 16 inch models that are pretty light, and have this feature. It's really just a matter of learning whatever keyboard layout the computer comes with. As long as the keyboard is comfortable to type on, I can learn any laptop keyboard layout.

One other thing to note is that many laptops like using the Function keys at the top for media controls and other functions by default. Some laptops let you change these keys to regular function keys by pressing Function + ESC. Some models are mean though and make you do this through the BIOS, which will require sighted assistance.

The Surface laptops are expensive, but they are nice. I use one through work quite a bit. But Other brands have also been pretty good. Asus, Dell, HP, and Acer have all been good to work with.

While I appreciate having VoiceOver built in to the Mac, I much prefer Windows because you have several screen reader options, and other assistive technology options. And if someone is going to school or working, most businesses run Windows. It also sounds like Microsoft is hopefully going to be releasing some updates to Windows 11 soon that should optomize things better and cut back on forcing AI Copilot everywhere.

Another thing to consider, though I'm not 100% sure of its accessibility, is Windows Hello. I've recently been looking at several options to replace my aging Windows laptop, and found that some, like the new Dell XPS models, look compelling but lack a fingerprint reader, instead relying exclusively on face recognition for biometric authentication. As I've never used Windows Hello for face recognition, I don't know how accessible the process of enrolling and presenting your face to the camera is, but thought I'd mention it so you can do your research and avoid any unwelcome surprises when getting the laptop.

if you wish to use this feature on Windows, be sure the computer you get has an IR camera. Otherwise, you will not be able to use facial recognition to unlock your device with Windows Hello.

NVDA runs via emulation on ARM64 versions of Windows, and I don't expect this to change in the near future. One of the processes runs as ARM64, but the rest is X86. In my experience, add-ons work fine, but I don't use a lot of them, so it would be helpful to know which ones she uses. If you're unsure about Windows on ARM, go with an AMD or Intel machine which will mean compatibility is guaranteed. Microsoft's emulation is pretty good and has improved with recent Windows updates, but you might run into something that refuses to work.

What addons does she use? It might take me a day or two, but I'll try and test them.

I'm using an Asus Zenbook, and it works great for my needs. I have no problem with setting Windows Hello, specifically facial recognition. When you set it up, it will tell the instructions. I chose an amd64 windows, as I'm still skeptical with arm PCs.

What Braille display does she use? If it's something that relies on an older proprietary driver rather than the new HID protocol, stick to an X86 CPU. As far as I know, Freedom Scientific is the only one that's released ARM drivers for their Focus displays, though it appears you can only get them if you install JAWS which is incredibly annoying!

I'm pretty sure she can use the Focus 40 with an ARM version of Windows, but she'll have to install JAWS to get the driver. Given the fact tons of software will run under emulation anyway, you may want to get an Intel or AMD computer so compatibility is guaranteed.

Not true. You can actually download the driver without using JAWS. Instructions below.

https://support.freedomscientific.com/Downloads/Focus/FocusBlueBrailleDisplayDriver

I am not 100% sure if you can do a clean install of stock Windows OS fresh without eyesight. The main issue would be if Windows can't find drivers for that particular laptops sound card. A lot of manufacturers like to add their own hardware for some things, like sound for example, and therefore Windows does not always have the necessarily drivers. I believe you can bypass it by using a wired headset or earbuds.

As for that first option, I am not sure if you can get rid of all blood wear by simply doing a restore.

HTH.

If you end up reinstalling Windows, consider the following:

1. When booting into Windows installation media, make sure to have sighted help or use scanning app to scan your screen. I used Seeing AI for this. Because you might not get sound after successfully booting into Windows installation.

2. Make sure to have a separate soundcard, or headphone handy, as your friend's computer may not have sound driver loaded during Windows installation. As my Asus computer doesn't remember sound or network during and after installation.

I have the Thinkpad X1 Carbon and love the keyboard and speakers.

So our most decent Mac computers?

So would this be a build quality thing?