Suspicion of censorship

Hope this doesn't become a patern.

Just to give benefit of the doubt, I wonder if there are back end issues.

It could also be that we've just become such royal pains in the rear that Michael and team have given up on trying to stop us living our Brat 24 summer and are now dusting away our nonsense.

In the case of any conspiracy, it's important to look at the effect and what value it might have to individuals involved. In this case, I'm not seeing a line drawn.

Stay paranoid though. They are talking about you.

Hopefully the mods can chime in. I still fail to see why threads would be actively removed.

I think your plan is a good one. Personally I think there is a lot on here that could be pruned and summarised for the sake of easier parsing by visitors—we do tend to ramble. Though that is a diferent matter.

Mods? Could you clarify, please?

Or what is going on with this. However, let us not forget that the original poster of a thread can also remove their thread.

In the past if AppleVis deleted a comment when not like it, Michael send me an email about it. I think my threads were remove because people cry about it and did not skip the comments. This is the new America. Long live cats.

Geez, i haven't had this happen to me but if this is happening it's bad

Usually mods are very quick, so maybe something big good or bad is happening somewhere.
@João Santos
I am sad of this thread removed, as a proud indian montrealer I'd have loved to laugh about my country money :(
One example of such things... We could never know, maybe apple is bad about vosh giving them a terrible image! It's a very unlikely but technically real possibility.

TIL how to archive a webpage thanks for that.

One of the threads in question had comments of my own, and disappeared as soon as I raised what I consider was a fair objection. Of course, what is or isn't fair is totally subjective, however I feel that the moderators should have had the courtasy to at least notify all the concerned participents including me that they were forced to remove a thread because the concerned participants had violated some community guidelines. Unless that's done, how is anyone supposed to know who has violated what guideline that forced the Mods to take the action? And unless that is known, how do we not keep making the same violation again? To put it short, this ain't the first time that I've noticed this, and personally, such blanket removals, instead of addressing any violation of the community guidelines (if it happened within a thread) will only encourage the violators to repeat the same behavior again, even if the violator is me myself.

Hi all,

I wouldn't normally say something until I'm ready to say something, but...

Just in the 1.5 hours it has taken me to research and write up a response, this thread is getting blown further and further out of proportion. I want to be sure we are accurately and thoughtfully communicating information about the Envision thread and the other concerns discussed here. Please try to be patient.

Thanks,

Michael

Or at least I think :) we are.
Seriously though, take all the time you need! Really.

Apologies are not necessary. 😊 We are just trying to do the best we can, including gathering facts and explaining things well the first time.

Hi all,

I appreciate the honesty and openness in the feedback shared, and I also want to thank you for your patience while I thoroughly reviewed your concerns and our response. I care about how we communicate, and I wanted to respond 'thoughtfully' and not 'reactively'.

As the Director of AppleVis, I am ultimately responsible for everything that takes place on the site. For those interested, I would like to offer some factual information about the situation and the points raised.

The “Disappointed with Envision...” Thread

At approximately 02:25 UTC on 12/11/2025 (8:25 PM CDT on 12/10/2025 in the U.S.), a member of our team noted that the “Disappointed with Envision” thread had begun to escalate and alerted me of the situation. In the thread, two members of the community were engaged in an unnecessary, off-topic, and increasingly personal exchange with no indication that the situation would resolve on its own. This occurred despite a prior effort to de-escalate and redirect the discussion.

The escalation took place late in the evening, at a time when our team had already signed off for the day. A full moderation review requires a detailed, fair, multi-step process—including rereading the entire thread, identifying guideline violations, determining appropriate actions, and contacting affected users. Performing this review fairly and equitably for a thread of this length can take several hours.

Given the timing and the risk of continued escalation overnight, it was not feasible to leave the thread online without intervention. I therefore made the decision to temporarily unpublish the thread until a careful and complete review could be conducted. Although we were not able to conduct that review today due to prior commitments, it should be completed by 18:00 UTC on Friday, 12/12/2025. At that time, the thread—minus the off-topic and personal-conflict comments—will be restored.

In hindsight, prioritizing the restoration of the thread sooner would have been the better approach, and we will keep this in mind for the future.

Missing Threads

Some questions were raised about why certain threads are no longer available. While it would not be appropriate or ethical to discuss individual cases publicly, threads are only removed for one of the following reasons:

1. Spam or Scam Content

A thread may be removed if it—or another post from the same account—appears to contain potentially spammy or harmful content. Examples include:

• Unsolicited advertising or promotional links
• Requests for personal information with no subsequent follow-up engagement
• Posts reported by community members as suspected scams or spam

When a potential spam or scam account is identified, the account and all of its posts and comments are removed, including any threads the user created.

2. Guidelines Violations

We remove content only when it is absolutely necessary. If a thread is fundamentally incompatible with our guidelines and cannot be corrected through a revision, it may be removed. Examples include:

• Posts asking about topics outside the mission and scope of AppleVis, such as living room furniture or gardening equipment
• Requests for information on obtaining 'cracked' versions of licensed software

When an entire thread is removed, we do not typically notify all participants unless their individual comments also violated guidelines.

3. User-Deleted Threads

Users may delete their own threads. When they do so, all associated comments are removed automatically.

I hope this provides clarity on the situation and the decisions that were made.

Best,

Michael Hansen
Director of AppleVis

This was the right way to handle it. Keep up the good work.

Hi all,

I wanted to share an update regarding the Envision thread, as well as clarify a separate but related situation that occurred earlier today.

First, we have completed our moderation review of the “Disappointed with Envision” thread. As a result, twelve (12) comments were removed. Eleven comments involved interpersonal conflict, personal attacks, or responses to such content. The twelfth comment was my own, which I had posted last week in an effort to de-escalate the discussion. All affected authors have been contacted privately. The thread was republished at approximately 16:00 UTC on 12/12/2025 and contained forty-four user comments at the time of republication.

In light of the ongoing discussion and concerns raised, I would also like to provide context around a different moderation decision from earlier today.

Earlier, a community member created a thread titled “More Suspicion of Censorship,” in which they shared concerns about the removal of one of their overnight posts. That original post discussed AI image descriptions of memes. While the topic itself was within our guidelines, it included an example text description of a meme that we believed, in good faith, to be sexually offensive and potentially harassing toward some members of our community. AppleVis is strongly committed to maintaining a safe, welcoming, and family-friendly environment, and we take a very cautious approach to moderating content that could reasonably be perceived as hostile or harassing. For this reason, the original post was removed and the author was notified.

Shortly afterward, the author published the “More Suspicion of Censorship” thread. Two community members replied before I did, and in my response I reaffirmed our decision and our commitment to the community. Open criticism of moderation decisions is welcome here, and I had hoped the discussion would remain available, as—whether or not one agrees with our guidelines—our record in addressing potential harassment issues speaks for itself. Unfortunately, the author chose to delete both the thread and their account. One additional post was removed by our team after the user deleted their account.

While we normally do not comment on such things, I am sharing this here so the community has a clear record of what occurred. This is all we will say on this topic at this time. I hope everyone has a wonderful and enjoyable weekend. As always, we’re here if you need us.

Hi Michael,
I will try to be delicate about this.
I can understand your wanting to keep content that is severely offensive/divisive off the website, but in my opinion, I do think the team takes things a little too far. Even the most minor language is frowned upon, but in the real world, people use such language openly. I can understand wanting to keep content that is outright vulgar off the website, but minor swearing doesn't hurt anyone, and I do feel it infringes on how some people express themselves when they can't say what they might wish to. There will be people who are offended over the smallest, most insignificant things, who want to keep the internet sterile of anything that they see as objectionable. But this is a self-propagating loop. If the most insignificant, slightly offensive material is removed, then it creates unrealistic expectations of other people while at the same time preventing the offended from learning how to deal with it. The internet is not, nor should it be, a sterile plastic bubble.
From what I remember of the second censorship post, the author did explain the intent behind their meme, and did acknowledge it as being related to the LGBTQ community. Unfortunately, discussion of this community's existence itself in some corners of the internet is considered offensive, but as a person with a disability, I understand how that marginalization feels so I'm surprised that it would be removed. Could you clarify exactly what was seen as offensive about the post?
Thank you.

To clarify, I am not advocating for a complete stop on language moderation. All I am saying is that I think the standard, such as it is now, is slightly unhealthy. Light swearing, tactfully used, can be an effective tool so long as it isn't directed at someone in a harmful manner.

I've indeed noticed that one of my comments were removed from the Envision thread with out any, explanation. Honestly, at what point do we say it's okay to disagree and have a civil discussion and trying to communicate your frustrations verses removing offensive content that may or may not be offensive when ya actually read and look at the context. Yes, while I was a tad frustrated, I don't think I've inflicted any personal attacks on anyone and if I've done so, I could understand if I did and my comments removed. We debate and disagree for a reason. We're not in the 1600s anymore and now I'm afraid of commenting on anything ever again just because my stuff gets removed with out any notice. I will be archiving my comments I make from now on and no, I don't wanna have to do that but honestly, censorship needs to be leaned back a bit. It's gone a bit too far in my view. Yes, I understand there's the pm system but if I want my frustrations to be public, it's for a reason! Mods, I'd urge you not to remove this comment because of this next part but I feel that now is the right time to express. Man ya can't even say hell , a word of which is used, a lot and that has multiple meanings depending on the context , even in non offensive stance with out being flag. Honestly think these need to be looked into because at that point. It's just gunna drive people away who express themselves different. My self included. Listen, I understand some swear words to a point but when commenting on a thread using a word that has multiple meanings and when nobody gets offended but comment gets removed anyway, that's where it's gone too far. More so, if people get offended, then people need to smell the coffee and touch grass. Like I said we're not in the 1600s no more. I understand, different countries, different cultures but honestly you cannot please every, body.

We are here to talk about Apple products, not to place our minds in the gutter. Again, I don't see an issue with innuendo, as long as it isn't vulgar, extreme, or otherwise frequent and doesn't detract from the conversation. No matter which way you slice it, you can't please everyone, and people will always be offended by the smallest things as I said. It's about diminishing returns though. If you align yourself one way, which group are you likely to alienate the most? Which set of users are you likely to lose? AppleVis is a one of a kind community, absolutely. But all of our unique perspectives are tempered by the fact we can't express ourselves in a real world, individualized manner, and must effectively stick to the language of a public corporation. I still think it is possible to be respectful and swear, to emphasize your point for example. I also think it is reasonable to take action, if that language is actually directed at someone in a manner that is meant to be hurtful. But clamping down on someone's freedom of expression, when you're dealing with a community such as ours which feels like it struggles to be heard already? I have to ask about the logic behind that choice. I really don't think there are a lot of ten year old kids or younger browsing the website, and teens have probably heard someone they know swear at least once. It isn't an experience that will upend their entire world.

If you can not get your point across or argument without using vulgarity or insulting someone you lost the point. Understand that sometimes AppleVis tend to be to much with removing comments when others do not like it but my philosophy is if you are not using bad language or calling someone name, your comment should not be remove. If you do not care for a comment or thread, not read it. We are over 21. Long live cats. Keep warm all, it is going to be very cold, specially in Chicago.

If you can not get your point across or argument without using vulgarity or insulting someone you lost the point.
Hence why I specifically stated those two things as things I'm against. What I'm referring to is a little (light) swearing. The kind that most TV shows don't censor.
Also, language isn't good or bad, on its own. It's how it's used.

I agree with Gar, but I wonder if the problem here is not wanting to make the website look bad to Apple and other big players? Of course, it's also true that you have to be very careful what you say around anyone these days, since anything can offend anyone, and we live in what I like to call tiptoe culture. You can't say anything without someone taking it the wrong way, even if you meant no harm. I suspect this contributes to the problem we face as blind people. Most people don't know how to act around someone that's blind, and society has conditioned them to tread very carefully so they don't offend anyone. As a result, it's easier to ignore the problem rather than asking questions that might trigger someone. Oh well, it is what it is I suppose.

Keep posts and comments within the guidelines of Applevis, and they won't be removed. Moderating a site of this size wouldn't be easy. Judgment calls will have to be made that some don't like or agree with. I saw many of the comments in the topic in question, and it had gotten completely out of hand. There is literally no reason for adults to be responding that way. Thanks to the admin team for all they do.

Sorry to have jumped on the conspiracy train. I'm also glad to know it was indeed just moderation and fair censorship. If I were moderating, I'd kick quite a few users who don't ad any value to the community—thank goodness I don't have such power.

This, above all, is a tech forum. Technical questions need to be at the heart of every discussion, and posts off track or where bickering occurs need to be removed for the sake of other readers.

Though I have fallen foul of using slightly spicy language, for which I was gently admonished, I do agree that we don't need to swear.

I know people get annoyed when they feel they are being censored for the sake of others’ propriety, as if some important right has been taken away from them. Truth is, it tends to be those without the vocabulary to express their point in a more accurate way. Offensive language is dive-bombing into a pool; a well-cut argument slips in without causing a ripple.

Anyway, glad we've got that sorted. Next?

We should get rid of that Doll Eye fella. I don't trust him at all. Him shady... 👎😇

I really want to make a comparison between myself and a certain person born about this time of year, quite a while back. He was misunderstood too. :(

So there.

Hi all,

I appreciate your feedback and will respond to your points in a follow-up post once I've got caught up on the discussion, but I did want to specifically answer one question that was raised:

Speaking bluntly, our concern was that the meme could be perceived as mocking people in the LGBTQ+ community. That's certainly how it looked to us. While by nature human interaction is nuanced and I appreciate that this might not ultimately have been the case, concerns about hostility/harassment directed against LGBTQ+ people was the motivating reason behind our decision.

More responses to come for everything else. 😊

Here's the deal. I've not made any personal attacks and even lade off on the swearing out of respect while trying to express but yet my comments still gets removed for no reason. So no, not at all simple. What are we not able to have opinions and express our feelings in frustration while respecting? We all come from different backgrounds and everyone has their own way about expressing so long as it's not hurting anyone. Like at this point, ya might as well not express thoughts to individuals about anything you disagree with or that you find off-putting. Further more, if ya feel that someone is causing more harm than anything just to get a point across or, try to and people are feeling the affects, we should have the right to express them frustrations as well. But as of now, we don't. I'll just leave that there.

Hi Jonathan,

Some of your comments in the Envision thread were removed, because they were part of the interpersonal conflict that was taking place and everything related to that conflict was removed. This included a comment from myself, trying to resolve things.

Best,

Michael

That does indeed make sense. Thanks for clearing.

Hi all,

I appreciate everyone who took the time to share feedback in this thread. Open dialog and critique of our policies is welcome here.

We want people to come to AppleVis and have a great experience on our platform, and we also want AppleVis to be a safe and welcoming place for everyone. We cannot have one without the other. If that means being extra cautious and removing a post that could potentially be harassing towards a marginalized group of people, we will do that. If that means prohibiting innuendos about adult topics because we have young people in our audience, that's what it means. Most of the time, we feel we get it right. While we wish it weren't so, sometimes we don't. But our goal with moderation is always to do our best to make the site a positive, safe, welcoming experience for everyone.

Regarding profanity specifically, I think it would be fair to say that we have struggled with where to draw the line on language since the site reopened last year; and those conversations are ongoing. During and after the site's brief hiatus, one thing we heard is that many people were uncomfortable with the tone and climate on the site. There is also the reality that our website is publicly available and open to anyone, including young people/students. While we definitely do not want to place limitations on what people can say on AppleVis unless absolutely necessary, we also want our community to be a safe, family-friendly place where anyone can participate. It's a delicate balance, and I fully appreciate that different people will have different views on where to draw that line.

Our goal in any given situation is to make the best and wisest decision we can with the information and perspectives available to us. We always appreciate open and honest user feedback, especially from people who disagree. Feedback allows us to see where we are doing well, whether there is something we should be doing differently, and how our efforts are perceived.

Thanks,

Michael

i think it all depends on how its used, and what words are used. I.e hell, that's, one that again depends on context. I.e, say, to hell with you? Sure, that shouldn't be allowed. But something like, i'm annoied as hell? That one is completely different and tbh shouldn't be removed. I think it’s a case by case basis, tbh because it should be more to do with the context in which the profanity is used, not if the profanity is used at all. That's where I feel like the line should be drawn. The way I see it? I highly doubt that people say, under 10 or nine are coming onto this site. If I have to take a guess, the youngest people coming? Teenagers. And I can assure you, they have heard plenty of profanity, more than likely. If somebody is more comfortable with profanity because that's how they talk or use it to describe stuff? Fine. If someone get's offended? Again, that's not the fault of the one who used profanity anyway. Some people might be more blunt than others, but everyone shouldn't have to tiptoe because hey people might get offended! You cannot control how someone else reacts, after all.

it shouldn't be band. have you heard how kids speak today. Coming on to heavy handed in moderation is not a good thing. If I say I can't get this fucking thing working its been 3 hours. That comes out of frustration so under these guidelines it will be removed. that is not fair nor right.q

Hi all,

João wrote:

The reason why I posted this thread, which I haven't shaken off yet, is that I have a feeling that this site is being moderated with corporate interests in mind, and there's a chance that the only reason why one of the threads that I mentioned was actually restored is because I caught them red handed.

So that there is a public record, I want to unequivocally state that this accusation is categorically false. My above statement contains the facts of the situation and the decisions that were made. We will have no further comment on this matter.

Thanks,

Michael Hansen
Director | AppleVis

Hi Michael,
If it helps, this is the framing I try to approach swearing with. First and most importantly, I give it a standard. Is this something that would be said in a rated R film? What about 14A? PG? Generally, if I do feel that using some form of language is necessary, I try to stick to the lower end (that is, words that might be allowed in a 14A film/TV show that wouldn't get censored out.
Secondly, I ask myself why I'm feeling the need to use such language. If it is in any way targeted *at* someone, then that to me is a sign that I probably shouldn't say it as I don't want to be seen as going after someone.
I do remember people saying they weren't happy with the direction AppleVis was going in before it shut down before, and from what I recall that had less to do with the actual language being used and more to do with the fact that people thought personal attacks were getting out of hand, which I can certainly understand and agree with. We're all entitled to our own opinions, and this should be a place where those opinions can be shared, so long as they are shared respectfully.
I hope this helps clarify things and maybe gives you a direction to go in, in terms of moderator action.

Hi João,

If the moderation isn't acting with ulterior motives then it certainly won't have a problem with people making sure that the Internet does not forget.

Whether individuals choose to archive their own posts is entirely at their discretion and has no bearing on our actions or decisions. I am responding here to ensure that the record is accurate. Accuracy matters, and when a future reader encounters this thread, our position should be clear and unequivocal, allowing all perspectives to be considered and enabling readers to reach their own informed conclusions.

Thanks,

Michael

Hi Gar,

I would love for us to be able to have some more objective standard as to how to approach this, so the examples of different film/TV ratings are especially helpful. Thank you!

So, I'll admit, the moderation here is pretty strict. that's a fact. I myself was called out for a potentially offensive topic. That being said, I'm of the opinion that firm moderation is a far better alternative than lax or no moderation. While I very much doubt that young children are coming on this site, we do have other people e.g. various religions, etc. that object to swearing and innuendo on principle. Better safe than sorry.

Having reviewed both this thread and the one that has since been removed, I feel it necessary to share a reminder of several key points:

list of 3 items
1. AppleVis is, above all, a resource for users who wish to maximize their experience with Apple products.
2. Over the course of its existence, AppleVis has earned a reputation as the definitive authority on all things Apple accessibility; accordingly, it must maintain a
rigorous standard of moderation.
3. We cannot know at any given moment who is accessing this site—whether an end user, a counselor from VR, someone affiliated with an educational institution,
etc.
list end

When I first learned about iPhones, I discovered a website and podcast by Michael Hanson. His podcast taught me how to navigate the screen, how to make
and receive calls, and how to use the App Store. That convinced me to purchase my first iPhone, and since then, AppleVis has become my go-to resource whenever
I have a question or face a problem. If I cannot find an answer in the forum threads, there is usually a very knowledgeable group of people who respond
quite promptly.

This is the essence of AppleVis. From its forums to its app directory, podcasts, and product reviews, it has become a one-stop resource for those purchasing
their first devices as well as those seeking to get the most out of the devices they already own. Because of this, thread moderation on this site is absolutely
essential. Personally, I believe strong moderation ensures that this site remains open and beneficial to all users.

When I encounter new games or questions I can answer, I attempt to do so. However, when I see threads devolve into protracted conflicts between users,
I feel both saddened and frustrated. If I were recommending AppleVis to someone, this is not the sort of thread I would want them to see featured on the
main page. The issue is not the maturity of our user base, but rather the need to ensure that we remain a resource that can be endorsed by the communities
and corporations that support us. Without the backing of Be My Eyes, for example, this website would not exist.

While expressing dissatisfaction with a product is not inappropriate, I urge everyone to exercise caution before posting a message. Ask yourself these
three questions:

list of 3 items
1. Does my contribution to this thread or topic provide constructive feedback or criticism?
2. How might my thread potentially affect AppleVis as a whole?
3. Who might be searching this website and come across this thread at any time?
list end

It is important to remember that AppleVis is neither an invitation-only community, nor a closed group, nor a subscription-based service. We are a free,
open-access community, and in many ways must hold ourselves to an even higher standard than many other forums or resources maintained by other organizations.

Agree with that. Others shouldn't have to say, stop swearing just because, oh i'm of x religion and I don't like swearing. Fine, just skip my posts then. By that logic, I don't believe in god and you do, I won't go around and, oh but you brought up god in a post; I'm offended! No. You have your beliefs, I have mine; we can agree to disagree; but don't shove your beliefs down my throat. That was an example, to be clear.