A quick glance at the topic list for this forum lately will show that a vast majority of the posts are people telling us about some new app they created or asking for feedback on one they’ve already created. It’s getting ridiculous. We get it – any of us can install Claude code and start vibe-coding apps of questionable quality, safety and security. This is getting so pervasive that I really think the moderators should create a new forum specifically for people who want to do this, preserving this forum for what it was historically intended for – conversations about iOS and challenges facing visually impaired users. It’s making me not even want to visit this website anymore, and I suspect I’m not alone.
Comments
we can't be 100% sure though, that's the problem
we can't be 100% sure nowerdays if an app is made with ai or not. it , imo, wouldn't be grate to move point blank apps asking for feedback to another place of the site, because imo then it will just clutter the lower part of the site with both good apps and shit vibecoded apps, and it's not fare on the guys who make apps without ai
Agree
True for everything in fact.
Idk about the redundency to have vibe coded section in apple posts and another in non apple post but I let mods decide.
Good counterpoints
I hear you, and that is the challenge with this whole AI slop-pocalypse generally (which I realize is beyond the scope of this forum) – the inability to discern actual quality software made by pros from vibe-coated junk. What about another forum focused on people announcing apps they’ve published and/or seeking feedback from users on those apps, whether AI or not? That way we’re not necessarily punishing legitimate developers, but also, these posts don’t clog up this forum. Honestly, I will tell you right now I categorically ignore all the “check out my app”/“give me feedback on my app” posts. I will never click on a post from somebody wanting me to test their app. If the app is really useful and good enough, it will eventually get widely adopted in the community.
forum for announcing apps
I feel like this wouldn't really fix the problem though, it would just lump all the vibe-coded apps in with apps that aren't, which seems unfair to devs who aren't relying heavily or solely on AI for their coding. I feel like there should be a required AI disclosure either in the subject or right at the top of the post, and/or a dedicated forum for vibe-coded apps, that way all the other devs can continue making their posts as normal without being overshadowed or lumped in with all the vibe-coded ones.
Re: forum for announcing apps
yes but the main page is all reddy crouded enuf as it is with the non apple descussions, i feel like that alr might be to much for some people.
you should hav the option in your profile to choose what you want on your homepage.
pluss another issue with an AI disclosure, who is going to stop a dev who won't be truthful about that? they could very easyly say it wasn't vibecoded when it was, other way around as well.
Thanks All
Thanks Justin and all for the feedback.
The amount of "test my app" posts has grown quite significantly over the last year, as has site activity more generally. The amount of AI-generated engagement on here has unfortunately grown by quite a lot, too. It is so common. I read everything posted here, and it has gotten to a point where I see predictable patterns in how these posts are presented. Change the app, change the details, but the formula (and often, the writing style) is the same. I think this is reflective of how AI usage has been accepted in society more generally.
We welcome any and all ideas about how we might address this. Anything we do would have huge implications for everyone, so we need to be sure that any solution is well thought-out and implemented.
An app is an app
Ok first off there is no way to tell if an app was vibe coded or not also, if it is a good app that solves a problem and they want to share it who cares. I quite literally got hen hunted by a CEO with a job offer to work for their organization because of an app that I vibe coded. All these guys behind the scenes are using vibe coding now. You can be mad about it all you want but that doesn’t change the fact that any new app and even a lot of old ones are either being created using vibecoding or they started using vibecoding to update there old apps. Why do they do this? It cuts down on costs especially for an organization.
An app is an app regardless of how it was built. If it solves a problem or it benefits the community in any way, it doesn’t matter.
Re: Thanks All
anyone who supports the filtering option lmk, i think this would be the best option, because you don't have to move around things and you can change things around on your own accord whenever you feel like it.
say, e.g. i wonna remove low vision and braille toppics from my home page, i can do that now, witch makes it so i can access more toppics.
if i wonna add them back i can
Re: Thanks All
Hi Ziixies, thanks for the suggestion. Filtering of the forum topics shown on the main feed is definitely something we want to offer, though it may be a bit before we are able to implement it.
Re: Thanks All
That’s going to be so hard to manage Michael because not only has society adopted the tech, it’s literally inside everyone’s devices now as well. But not only that, companies are encouraging their employees to use it more often. People are also creating real products and or adopting it to scale up software production. You’re never gonna be able to separate vibe-coded apps from other apps, but what you can do is add a tester section where if someone needs or wants an app tested they can put it under that section that way people can filter out that section if they want too. Billions of dollars are being spent on AI and I think I’ll guarantee you, You’re gonna be seeing a lot more of this. You’re never gonna be able to separate vibe coded apps versus other apps. If you start asking to see the code, companies are gonna steer clear of this website entirely as a lot of companies work is proprietary.
Re: Thanks All
he never said they would ask to inspect the code btw
I have to agree with Steven here
If an app helps me or anybody else in the community to solve a problem or to make my life a bit easier I really don’t care how it was built. It doesn’t cause any problems to my main device and it benefits me then it doesn’t matter. Developers come on here and they want us to help them. We should do it. They’re asking for our feedback because they want to help and wanting to help she’d be encouraged rather than people being so picky about how the app is being built. Anybody who wants to give help to this community should be encouraged and recommended for that. As far as how it should be displayed on the website I’m thinking possibly just a place like a separate forum. Topic of announcing apps might be the best thing, but we’ll see what happens. Think everybody’s doing a great job keeping this website running. Thank you for everything that you’re doing.
Re: I have to agree with Steven here
im just thinking about the cleaneyus of the site. if we add another section, we alr hav 2 other sections. so unless there's a way to expand or something to each section idk how this would work
Re: An app is an app
Hi Stephen. I will admit I was experiencing a particular moment of irritation when I wrote my original post, so I probably could have been a bit more neutral in how I worded it. That said, I disagree that an app is an app. There is a big difference between software created by a professional software developer or development team, whether or not they are using AI tools, and an app created by somebody with little to know software development experience relying mostly or entirely on AI tooling. To be clear, I am a software developer of 10 years, myself, and I use AI coding tools every day, so I’m not opposed to them. However, and I’m not saying this applies to you specifically, but for people who don’t really know what they are doing, how can they possibly validate that the output of the AI coding tool is producing secure code, safe code, reliable code? Something running and technically doing the thing it was designed for is not the same as that application actually adhering to security and safety protocols, and these things can have huge impacts on users. There are plenty of examples of vibe-coded software with back doors, leaking of user data and susceptibility to injection attacks among other things. Again, I know this forum is probably not the place to go into a more general debate about vibe-coding, but I did want to address both of your points.
On the other hand, I agree that it’s awesome the bar of entry has been lowered such that anybody with an idea can reasonably hammer out a functional prototype, and that’s great. However, when we have these apps being presented alongside professionally developed apps with no real way to know the difference, that is a problem, and as I outlined above, it can have real, tangible harms on users. Appreciate the discussion, man
Re: I have to agree with Steven here
Hi. I would direct you toward my reply to Stephen‘s post. In short though, I don’t disagree with the spirit of what you’re saying. It’s great that a wider pool of people can now innovate and offer solutions to others, especially in the accessibility space where we are often desperate for more solutions, not fewer. However, like I outlined in my reply to him, it’s not true to say that it doesn’t matter how the software was built. If that were the case, software companies wouldn’t spend billions of dollars on security hardening and cyber security experts as part of their development team. It matters enormously, and it can hurt your computer. It can hurt you. It doesn’t mean somebody needs to be intentionally malicious, but people who are writing software who don’t actually know how to validate the code being generated by the AI are asking for trouble.
Re: Thanks All
Hi Stephen, sorry for the misunderstanding. What I meant specifically is that we would love feedback on addressing the huge influx of "test my app" posts, not assessing whether or not something is vibe-coded.
Thanks,
Michael
Re: Thanks All
Hey Michael, thank you for responding and trying to redirect the conversation towards solutions, because ultimately that’s what I think we all want. We can debate about the whole AI/vibe-coding phenomenon but that’s not going anywhere. I will soften my original statement a little bit, where I said I will never try out apps posted by developers in the forum. I was kind of running a bit hot when I wrote that original post. I’m happy to try out apps that I can trust, but I am not going to run some buggy or possibly unsafe or insecure app made by somebody who doesn’t know how to develop software, so there’s got to be a better way for us to tell the difference.
I know this is a challenge the whole software industry is facing right now, so I’m not under any impression we hear at the forums are going to solve it overnight. I do think including in the user agreement/acceptable use policy a requirement that developers must disclose if the software they are sharing with us was created with the assistance of AI tools. I know it’s still basically honor system, but I think it still sets the right tone, and I fundamentally trust that most people are honest.
Beyond that, the upshot of all this AI technology is it can also be used to actually detect AI slop, but that’s probably a more advanced tech that isn’t necessarily feasible, here. I’ll keep thinking on this and share any ideas I come up with
I’m thinking maybe a separate form just for announcing apps
Maybe you can create forums that are just like app announcements and you can make one that’s for iOS app announcements and then like announcements. I’m not sure that’s the best they can come up with with the moment. Hope that helps.
AI disclosure is a good idea.
It's true, you can't make society forget AI. You also can't force someone to be alright with the fact that it's inundating everything with (sometimes literal) slop, or that it's turning this forum into a bit of a spamfest that drowns out other discussions.
I don't mind being asked to test things, and I don't even mind vibe coding if it's been done with care. But I would like to know whether AI was used, and to what extent. More importantly, I believe everyone has the right to make an informed decision about what level of AI use they're willing to engage with. To that end, I think asking people to disclose the depth and nature of AI's involvement makes sense.
For example, code is fine with me personally, but AI-generated art, music or writing is not. A disclosure system would let me decide which projects I actually want to give my testing energy to and which forum posts I can skip. I think it would also cut down on AI arguments, because people who aren't interested could steer clear, while those who are could engage with that content knowing what they're getting into. It gives people more room to make their own choices without having to argue about whether AI is inherently good or bad every time it comes up.
Yes, people can lie about their AI use, but I still think this is a step toward transparency that would generally benefit everyone involved. And I suspect people would be less inclined to lie if there weren't an official or community-wide judgment that AI is categorically a bad thing, which, as far as I know, isn't AppleVis's official stance anyway.
Ultimately, I think this would make it easier for people with very different views on AI to coexist in the same community, while still allowing everyone to stick to their own values and decide for themselves what they're comfortable engaging with.
Filters, also, sound really useful! Not just for this topic, either, I genuinely don't care about Mac, for example, and would love a way to filter it out of just my feed, so I hope this develops into something cool!
Testing forum
I agree with the idea of an App Testing forum.
I don't
unless we can find a way to manage clutter
Re: AI disclosure is a good idea.
Well said! Totally agree. It’s easy to slip into these debates about the broader problems/opinions of AI, and that’s probably a less value than just coming up with suggestions and ideas that could make our experiences here better, regardless of to what extent we are comfortable engaging with AI content. Thanks for contributing
Re: I don't
I would argue though that we already have the clutter, and it’s cluttering up a forum that also contains genuinely helpful and important topics that are increasingly getting buried, which is what inspired me to post this thread in the first place. At least we quarantine the app related clutter to its own forum where people can choose to engage with it or not. I’m open to the filters idea too.
Re: AI disclosure is a good idea.
I’m genuinely curious about this. I understand when it comes to music what classifies as AI slob, but in regards to apps, how do you classify what slop and what’s not?
@Justin_B
Completely agreed! The phrase "I built an app" Um, no, you did not, you had an idea and AI built it for you! It's annoying, frustrating, anger, inducing, and utter bullshit! Look, I have used some of these AI apps and I like them but, the majority is what I've read on online as being AI slop! Mods, get a hold of this! Cheers… Rocker
Ai disclosure is unpractical but agree with app submission forum
Remember that in the 2000s a golden rule of the good internet was never give any real information online, now it's the opposite but the fact remains that anybody can lie.
But yeah, I think at least filtering informational / support request topics from app review / submission is the best middle way that's the easiest to implement, at least in the future. I think, and this is a big suggestion, that people with a provable history on the site, ie x times old account, could just click a link and ask programmatically the topic if it's an app to be moved in this new forum instead of moderators losing precious time sorting out manually, so they just have to click yes yes yes no and let the (already legit) community decide and help speed up things.
I am almost against ai disclosure, cause it will be like nutrition labels, no way to inforce / prove it was AI especially for ios apps where we often have 0 access to the source code. And this will force applevis to take a semi unofficial position for or against AI, which is just unproductive in the current situation and environment and will just require more and already limited time and energy that can and should be used elsewhere. I believe like a very clear and specific trust criterion / vibe 😂, where you explicitly say that accessibility or other factor are not to be taken into account when reviewing, could be a mid term okay ish solution.
Re: AI disclosure is a good idea.
In my eyes, as someone who created a website using AI, to me, AI slop is someone who makes an app or a game or website or whatever, and put absolutely no effort at all into doing anything. They just wanted to exist, but outside of that they don't care about anything. They don't fix issues, they don't look at their code, they don't look at the security, they don't look at anything. They just want something to brag about online to a bunch of people who probably won't even end up using it anyway, unless you're very naïve, which in that case, you'll probably use anything.
Re: Ai disclosure is unpractical
I feel like the moderators already kinda have enough on their plate already not sure if they really need any more
Re: AI disclosure is a good idea.
To me, AI slop in apps involves them not behaving well or being full of bugs, reading very similarly to other apps, being full of blatant and sloppy AI writing, having emojis in random places where they make no sense, presenting with extremely verbose VoiceOver labeling (see the AI writing point above) and other telltale problems, big or small, that someone who was thinking about quality would deal with almost instantly.
But a lot of them either just don't work or don't offer anything new beyond the vaguest of reskins of a previous thing that got popular.
Re: AI disclosure is a good idea.
You make a good point, and I think it extends to all generative AI, not just software. At this point, we have three different things going on: content made entirely by humans, content made entirely by AI, or some combination of that. There are machine learning algorithms that are getting better at detecting entirely AI generated content, but figuring out to what extent a human used AI when creating content is tough. That’s why I think requiring AI disclosure as part of the acceptable use policy of this website, which is something we all agreed to when we create our accounts and continue to use the site, it would be a good first step. Obviously somebody can lie, but then they are having to make a conscious decision to actively lie, and I think that’s going to stop at least some people. Frankly, I’d be more inclined to try out an AI coded app if I saw that it’s developer was being totally upfront about how they made it.
Re: Ai disclosure is unpractical but agree with app submission
I totally respect the workload the moderators already have, but one of them is literally here telling us he wants ideas on how to solve this problem, so I think the door is open to suggesting solutions. They wouldn’t offer if they weren’t willing to help.
Also, requiring developers to disclose that they use AI during the creation of their apps is not a position for or against AI; it’s simply a position in favor of transparency. Reputable developers would have no problem with this expectation, and I think most people who are vibecoding are decent and well meaning and would probably be honest. Of course that will leave some people who are either dishonest or just forgot, but implementing a solution that solves maybe 50% of the problem is still worth doing rather than discounting it because it won’t solve 100% of the problem, I say.
Re: AI disclosure is a good idea.
Yes, but everybody has different opinions on what AI slop and AI is in general. I think an AI disclosure would be very difficult to implement for that reason alone.
Re: AI disclosure is a good idea.
I understand. Like I mentioned, it’s essentially the honor system, but we agree to an acceptable use policy whenever we use any service, including this website, and many of the things that it requires of us are simply choices we can make either way. We are not prohibited from doing things on this website that would violate the policy, yet many of us try to adhere to the policy so that we can continue using the site and not get blocked or kicked off of it. This is no different. It is asking people to make a good faith effort to be honest about the involvement of AI in the creation of the apps they are wanting us to run on our phones and computers. Like I said in another post, it’s far from perfect, it’s a low-tech solution to a high-tech problem, but even if it cuts back on just some of the extraneous posts we are all getting frustrated with, I think it’s worth it. It’s also not the only thing we can do. People are talking about creating a separate forum, a filtering mechanism and other things. It’s about combining a handful of solutions to hopefully meaningfully addressed the problem
I’m just glad
I’m just glad I vibe coded my apps when it was a cool thing to be able to vibe code something lol. It got me onto a podcast, which got me a job at a tech company. Well, not for profit tech company.
You could announce it was vibe coded using AI from the rooftop and people would flock to it because of that. It’s wild to me how opinions have changed in the span of almost a year but I guess that might also have to do with how saturated the market is now.
Anyways, in my day, I was there when it was cool. Now excuse me while I age myself, 😂.
I like learning about new apps
I've collected so many games lately. If they work and I like them, then that's awesome. If they just don't do it for me, I will delete them and move on, or hold onto them if I think they've got potential. As a couple of others have said, if the app is good and functional, it shouldn't matter if it's vibecoded or not. I'd love to attempt vibecoding, but I also know that I wouldn't have the first clue what I'm doing, so will just enjoy whatever other people are willing/able to share. I just navigate by header, so if there's a topic I'm not interested in, I just hit H to move on to the next header.
Alternative to requests for app testing
It may at this time be best to simply ban posts asking for free app testing. I know on Reddit any blindness community that has not already done so has been spammed into the ground by these. It's one thing to rely on the good will of our community, but app testing now opens every user up to being scammed or having their devices destroyed by bad code. There is also the fact that these people are asking us to do work that is paid when sighted people do it.
This might not be the solution the site wants but it's worth considering. I too am coming here less and less because I know all I'm going to find are a dozen copycat posts begging me to do paid work for free or hoping I'll test something that will give the creator more access than they should have to whatever is on my devices.
Re: Alternative to requests for app testing
Why would anyone wanna ban devs asking for testing apps? That's kind of silly BTW and like it or not, ya ain't gunna know unless you look at the code if an app is vibe coded or not. That argument falls flat real quick. Even if you do devs that know how to code edit their code so ya ain't gunna know anyways so who cares? I'd say, create a separate form for testing and feedback and call it a day and for people who wanna see it can.
It doesnt' bother me at all.
If it works it works.
If applevis had an AI apps section I'd use it and enjoy it but the way it is right now doesn't bother me. I'm completely fine either way.
If you wanted to do it, I'd do the hole heading thing like you do with the windows section. So apple posts heading, windows post heading, AI posts heading or maybe even a test my apps heading, actually I like that now i think on it. It would make navigation easier and quicker.
Re: AI disclosure is a good idea.
The thing about this is, good use and AI slop matter a bit less when there is disclosure of use. A lot of the people who would cry slop might not even look at a post if they know, for example, that it was entirely done with AI. So this just in general cuts back on that particular conflict because it's very clearly marked for people who don't care how much AI use there is vs people who do.
Up For Listening to the Latest Verge Cast?
The latest one they dropped today, fits right up y'alls alley on this topic!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBVODIUnPwc
Enjoy!
PS. A "Made With AI" checkbox within the app directory may not be a bad idea. But what do I know, I'm an Android guy!
Re: Alternative to requests for app testing
hell no, we are not going to do that, if that happens i won't use the site.
Re: we can't be 100% sure though, that's the problem
again trashing vibe coded apps. and these attacks are allowed to continue.
I don't care how it is written
If it works and does what it says it will do and the developer fixes it if it is vibe coded I don't care. The human still has to prompt the ai how to fix it test the fix etc. I could care less how it is done. If you don't want to use vibe coded apps if you need something then learn how to write the code. Those of us that choose to move with the times will have solutions.
Re: we can't be 100% sure though, that's the problem
lmao the fact you think i'm trashing them is insane. i litriley make vibecoded apps and programs that only I use. but keep dreaming i guess
Re: I don't care how it is written
completely aggree with this
Re: we can't be 100% sure though, that's the problem
If calling them and I'm using your words exactly.
"shit vibecoded apps, " isn't trashing them I don't know what you call it.
Re: we can't be 100% sure though, that's the problem
btw, i've
ported svox peko, one of the old android tts synths, from an android 5.0 image, onto mack-OS 27 on an m1 mackbook air, using chatgpt codex 5.6luner. so i'm not trashing ai made code or apps or anything like that, concidering i work with it myself.
and yes, i was able to make it a tts voice, but i only got the the US english voices working rn.
Everyone knows when they used AI to build the app!
The worst part is, it’s just a feeling. You read the topic, you read the post, and you instantly get a gut feeling that it’s more of the same. We need to quantify this so it can be marked on the website. Some of us like myself would like to know and remove posts like this. It’s all the same.
Re: we can't be 100% sure though, that's the problem
that was not a point blank statement over all vibecoded apps, i ment apps that are completely vibecoded that are completely shit, like they don't work at all, hav a lot of bugs, ettsetra.
i don't wonna sound rood, but if your going to try to use my words to try to prove a point, then if i don't sound like i'm understanding right, pleas ask for context instead of trying to twist my words
All Ideas are Appreciated
All feedback and ideas about how to navigate this challenge are welcome and very much appreciated. We want to try and find a solution that meets the needs of as many people as possible.