Please Apple, Make Safari Respond!

first your snarky and rude post to a company that has tried to address accessibility concerns is not a good look. Second what particular website? Do you just complain or have you let apple no about this bug? If you let them know did you give exact steps to reproduce it? Did you do a screen recording to capture the issue?

Unfortunately it's the truth.
I can't count how many times I had to turn VoiceOver off and on to be able to browse websites.

Very often I go to diferent the websites. I hear a "busy" message that goes on and on. All I have to do is turn VoiceOver off and on and magically the website works properly.

I have been sending reports to Apple for several years, but there is no problem for them.

It's the same as:
- No reading (-) in numbers.
- No Polish characters in Finder.
- No Polish characters in PDF preview.
- VoiceOver crashing when wrapping a page in Safari.

and a whole lot of little bugs that make using macOS drive me crazy at times.

this will be my last comments I was nice I wasn't rude unlike you so see how far your post get you that will not get any company to look at your issue. You failed to answer any of the questions I asked good look at getting the issue resolved with your tone.

Well, it is true. Apple has done a lot for ACC and I respect this. But it is also true that I paid a lot of money for my devices. ;)
Currently, I cannot read Wikipedia properly. The focus often just jumps away from the paragraph I want to read and lands somewhere on the bottom of the page. Navigating search results in Google became very difficult because VO gets stuck in the Adds. On youtube VO goes cracy and often does not read the headings when navigating with VO +H. And very often, there is this Not Responding thing. I cannot make a list of affected sites because it happens on so many of them. It is very buggy.

Have you taken a screen recording and noted the time it happens and contacted apple accessibility?

Open this post from December 2021 (which, ironically, generated the "Safari is not responding" message when I loaded it just now), scroll down about six comments until you see the one from me, and note that the VoiceOver message was formerly "busy, busy, busy." We all reported that issue to Apple, and Apple responded by tacitly changing the message to "Safari not responding."

If we spam Apple accessibility with screen recordings, they will likely change the message to something else. But they are already aware it's a problem and they have already opted to not address it in any meaningful way.

Color me frustrated.

Would it be more prudent to call Apple accessibility directly? Instead of posting on a website where nobody can help you or make any changes. The phone number is 1-877-204-3930. Call them. Say the same things you’re saying directly. Find out if they’re “skilled”. Personally, my favorite touch is that they are all sided and literally turn on voiceover while on the call with you. And then, when you challenge them, they say that they don’t have to use the phone the way voiceover users do. When asked how much practice on voiceover they get, their response varies. Some people say maybe 5 to 10 minutes a day some people say maybe less than that.

We have called Apple. We have sent them feedback after feedback. We've hoped and hoped. Y'all seriously don't think we haven't? What makes y'all think we have just sat here on a website that, actually, Apple lists on their accessibility page as a resource? There comes a point where many people talking about a bug *is* heard. Apple simply has to do something about it.

I was sitting here with my Mom today, while she browsed heavy websites, like Facebook Marketplace and other retail sites. This is a 2019 macBook Pro, i5 processor, 8 GB RAM. And she never said anything about Safari being slow. No one sighted that I've heard of on the Internet *ever* says Safari is slow or unresponsive when navigating or scrolling. It's literally just us. And I honestly must infer that the blind people at Apple use Windows computers for their browsing, or perhaps everything besides compiling Mac code. If blind Apple employees used the Mac, this would *not* be an issue. Of course, they *may* have the latest hardware, which doesn't solve the problem; instead making the device so fast that it's not as noticeable. Yes, I'm purely sinical. But what else are we supposed to think? VoiceOver's speech system is more responsive. The Mac rarely hangs outside of web browsing. What else is there?

does this happen with the newest macs?

Because most people aren’t calling or reaching out to Apple. Went interacting with Apple, these bugs are treated as if a very small minority are going through them. And unfortunately, most voiceover users are very, very, very very very basic users. They have not a clue that there’s bugs. Because they’re generally not even using the phone in a meaningful way. They might be sending a few text messages, making a few calls and possibly watching a few videos. And they think it is amazing. It’s not just us. It’s literally everyone going through it. But the vast majority don’t know they’re going through it. And, I have made suggestion after suggestion after suggestion on this website to possibly coordinate working together to improve the situation. The response has been lackluster at best. Some people rather complain, then do the work to make the improvements. Don’t give me wrong. There’s actually a healthy number of people working very hard to report an address these issues. But maybe those people around the world number less than 50 or 60. And that’s just a hopeful guess. Again, out of the possible millions of voiceover users, the vast majority of them are using these devices in very, very basic ways.

I agree with you. As one person said when I asked questions I was rude I was no such thing. I was attempting to see what they had done. If we all work together these issues can probably be solved. but it takes us working as one.

I posted this in one of the many other posts about this very issue, but anyway below is a small script (see: Itty bitty) that will quickly toggle VO off and back on again. Now I realize that we all can just spam Command + F5 until our ears bleed, but hey, why damage a good thing? 😝
Just copy/paste the code below (exactly as is) to a new file in "Script Editor", located in the Applications/Utilities folder on your Mac's harddrive. You can get to it easily by pressing Command + Shift + U from the Desktop, or simply Spotlight search for Script Editor.

Once you have made your file, you can save it to whatever's clever and make it work with Keyboard Commander.

Enjoy~

tell application "System Events"
key code 96 using command down
end tell
delay 1
tell application "System Events"
key code 96 using command down
end tell

I'd like to know what you do on your phone that isn't basic? calling, texting and using the internet is what the phones are for.

Also... This is about the mac, not the IPhone.

I used to have a mac years ago and came across the safari busy message, and to hear that people are still having the exact same issue in 2023 is sad and one of the reasons I'll be sticking to windows.

What I think is happening is that safari is loading the page, like windows does, but unlike windows, voiceover makes it so that you're unable to navigate the page until it's fully loaded.

But they just don't seam to care that much.

I'm a windows user and it'll probably remain that way for the wrest of my life.

People on here have talked about tonnes of bugs, they've given apple links to these threads proving these bugs exist, the busy busy busy one has been going on for years now and nothing has been done about it.

The IPhone is great for a phone but the computers, not so much.

I wish I could just say, oh that's just because I've not used a mac in years but it's not, these bugs are all over this site. I personally won't/can't really do anything as I don't have a mac but I'd not be surprised if people just give up, I think I would.

There's no point hitting your head against the same wall over and over again, after all. Oh and if I were to phone them they'd probably give me a work around that doesn't actually promice any updates in the future that'll fix it.

Your post made me giggle, so thank you.

It's really frustrating that this issue has been happning for years and it feels like Apple doesn't care to address it. I've had this happen on my M1 MacBook Air - which, granted, I don't use often (because I get frustrated with VO and prefer using Windows).

Still, it's not good enough. Please keep reporting this bug to Apple, because our screen readers deserve to be functional.

The fact this issue has been ongoing for such a long time demonstrates severe incompetence! The Safari experience on iOS isn't this bad. What version are you using? I assume 17 which should be included with the beta of Sonoma? I can't test Sonoma due to lack of hardware, but maybe the person who said we eventually give up is correct. I keep hoping things will change, they never do, I'm disappointed, and the cycle repeats itself. It's a shame. Nothing will be taken seriously until someone who works at Apple or one of their family members suddenly develops vision issues and has to rely on these features. Apparently, they can't hire more people dedicated to Mac accessibility features. It's so sad to see the pioneer of mainstream accessibility constantly dropping the ball when there's no good reason to do so other than presumably prioritization issues. I was thinking about an M3 Mac Mini, but perhaps I should save my money for something more valuable. It's a shame, because the hardware is really great. However, the software appears not to be, at least for blind people. Can we get a public apology from anyone at Apple? Hello? Hello? We're paying customers too! Oh wait, the almighty Apple doesn't speak directly to us mere mortals.

Yes, thanks Dennis and Ash for not comprehending the frustration and many of us are experiencing every single day.
I am using a Mac 14 inches, running M2 Pro with 12 core CPU, 19 core GPU, 32 GB memory, 1 TB storage. Excuse me? How much stronger can you really go with Macs? And it is still happening on this freaking idiot device every single day I am using it.
And as @PaulMartz have very clearly pointed out, with hard proof above, Apple is absolutely aware of this damn issue.
And speaking about calling them? Oh my goodness, I don't understand why on earth you thought we have not given them a call? I really cannot understand the basis you rely on to say that we **have not** called them, or emailed them enough. I spent hours and hours detailing this, and many many other issues to them on the phone and via direct, video screen share. I also spent hours and hours compiling detailed emails with both system reports and screen recordings to share with them. But still the issue persists.
Oh please! If you cannot muster the effort to share our frustration, at least, just don't repeat your mantras 🥹…

As I have said, over and over again, not enough people are calling. When calling the Apple accessibility team, you get a representative very quickly. That’s indicative of the larger problem. Which is people are generally not calling it or calling about very basic troubleshooting needs. I have interacted with a wide range of blind people. 99.9% of them Are using very old iPhones and are using them in the most basic way possible. A few of them maybe have their speech output over 50% and are aware that there are actually different voices. A few of them may be are using their iPhones for email. A few of them maybe are using Netflix or Amazon or DoorDash or whatever Third-party app. If you’re calling, then call again and again and again and again, and again, and again. It doesn’t matter if they’re frustrated with you. It doesn’t matter if they’re rude. Record the calls and put it on YouTube. (block out their names). Advocacy has never been about simplicity. I’m sorry that we are blind. I’m sorry that life is tougher for us. I’m sorry that things don’t get the same attention as other people. And you still have a life to live. And if you choose, you haven’t obligation and a responsibility to work harder than everyone else around you for the most basic things. I use my phone for literally everything. I use it for work, I use it for play, I buy my groceries on it, I use Amazon on it, I have multiple emails on it, it’s my primary Internet device, I am literally posting this comment through my iPhone. I edit documents and sign PDFs, I checked my work hours and apply for paid time off, I play games on it, I watch adult videos on it. I do my primary research on it. I check in to my gym with it. Literally everything is done with my iPhone these days. So I’m very very aware of the bugs. I’m very aware of the problems. And I’m very aware that the vast majority of people aren’t reporting them or even aware that they exist.

You have no idea who is calling apple and who isn't. Just because the people you've interacted with aren't, doesn't mean others haven't. As for calling them again and again and again, no thank you, we have lives to live.

People are calling apple for basic things Ash because that's what the accessibility phoneline is for. It's not just to report bugs.

You really give off,, I am the best person in the room, vibes, and honestly, it's not nice. Put it this way, if I knew you in real life, it wouldn't be for long.

You act like we're all simpletons who haven't tried doing these things when we clearly have, you come across as very condescending like we're children and we aren't.

I have no interest in being anybody’s friend on this website. I will be friendly with some people and always polite to everyone. And politeness does not mean I have to be kind. However, it’s not about who is the best in the room. It’s about what’s needed. I would rather be hated, and there be no bugs than loved, and things not work. I know enough to know that when I call Apple accessibility, it only takes a moment to connect with someone. That means they’re not getting called that much. What customer service have you ever contacted that picks up immediately? And I have regular interactions with various individuals. Most of the time, they are either completely unaware, or they are aware, and believe that it’s only affecting a small number of people. They only prioritize fixing something when so many people have complained that it becomes impossible to ignore.

There’s this old saying. The minute you have to belittle someone to make a point, you no longer have one. Fundamentally, there’s only two reasons why most of these accessibility bugs are actually fixed. Number one is that enough people are reaching out about it being an issue. And that’s very rare. The second reason is that a few dozen people are regularly calling, writing, reporting, and essentially bothering Apple, so that most of the bugs are fixed.

By the way, the Apple accessibility phone number is meant for bug reporting. They reach out to engineers and provide case numbers. And they follow up about the bugs that are reported. Their responsibilities range from basic, troubleshooting to complicated investigation of accessibility issues.

Yes I was wrong, it's about bugs. But people are stil calling and reporting these things, apple just doesn't care. We've told you over and over again. If you want to report bugs, go for it but unfortunetly people are giving up because of what they're seeing.

I had a mac about 10 years or so ago, the fact the safari busy bug is still there speaks volumes about how much apple doesn't care.

Anyway I'm done here as we'll just keep going round in circles and it's not worth it.

@Maldalain depending on where you live, you should be able to call apple and ask them to put you through to the accessibility phone number.

In my experience, "Safari Not Responding" is a rarity on my M1 Pro-based 14-inch MacBook Pro. It mostly happens while Web pages are loading.

As other cases occur, I'll report them to Apple, but it's almost never a problem for me, as it rarely happens after the initial page load.

I also don't experience this regularly on my M2 MacBook Air with 16 GB of ram. When it happens, it's generally while the page is loading, or on particularly busy webpages, and only lasts for about a second.
For those who experience it regularly, or in a way that browsing with Safari becomes almost infeasible, what is your connection speed generally? If indeed this issue is known to occur while pages are loading, and given that it happens frequently and for a long time for some, I wonder if perhaps the amount of time it takes to load the webpage, coupled with a possible issue in how VoiceOver renders webpages, or how macOS schedules that task relative to how it schedules the loading and rendering of the page by Safari, is causing or contributing to the issue.
For me, I have cable for the time being, and get anywhere from 80 to 128 MBPS down. If connection speed is indeed a contributing factor to this issue, I'll be curious to see if my results change in any way when I eventually, hopefully, upgrade to symmetrical gigabit fiber.
For those in regular discussion with Apple regarding this issue, has connection speed ever come up as a possible cause or contributor to why some experience this issue so much more frequently or severely than others? Of course, VoiceOver's announcement that "Safari is not responding" is definitely a bug, but I wonder if specifically mentioning connection speed in the context of diagnostic logs will give them that vital piece of data they need to finally address this issue for all VoiceOver users.

What happens if you reset all VoiceOver settings via VoiceOver Utility? Export your existing settings so you can quickly import them if this fails. Does the issue go away? I'm not experiencing many of the issues most of you are talking about on iOS, and resetting preferences seems to fix things, even though we shouldn't have to. It just reinforces my belief that you should start fresh with a new operating system release for the best experience.

For those experiencing this issue, I'd recommend letting Apple know of your connection speed as part of your reports, as again, even though VoiceOver should be more than capable of handling webpages on modern computers with acceptably fast Internet, the possibility that particular speed ranges are making the issue more reliably reproducible could give them a better sense of direction in which to focus their refinement work.

The average webpage is under 3 megabytes which on a 20 megabit connection will take approximately 1 second. 20 megabit downstream is a pretty slow connection these days so unlikely to be the problem. More telling though is that when you turn VO off, the webpage loads as quick or quicker than it would on Windows. Well under a second is normal. I know its tempting to try and find things that we can control and I’m not suggesting giving up on that because there could be something we can identify that will help but the real issue here is that Apples bugs are causing an issue and this community is so desperate to have their expensive machines work properly that we’re suggesting anything we can possibly think of to explain the issue that is very obviously being caused by Apples lack of interest in fixing this problem. Again turn VO off and see how quickly web pages load. It’s instant. It’s natural to look for something we can control instead of accepting the problem is being caused by something many people have tried to control and failed. Namely apples interest in fixing this bug.

I'm done dealing with this and hoping things will change. Apple makes a superior operating system, but they do not make a superior screen reader like they once did. It's really sad that Windows 11 boots and runs faster on my 2013 MacBook Air than the latest officially supported version of macOS. I don't have to deal with a web browser that completely locks up either. Since we're not going to get an official apology from Apple and it's clear they don't care about their blind Mac users, I don't care about the product anymore. Internet connection speed is a ridiculous reason. It's buggy software, pure and simple, and no one cares about fixing it. It's too bad great potential is being squandered, but it is what it is. Vote with your wallet. From this point forward, I'm only buying the iPhone SE, because it's the cheapest Apple product and iOS is a platform they're clearly more interested in supporting anyway. I understand bugs aren't fixed as quickly as we'd like them to be, but at least they get fixed, unlike macOS.

Add blockers, or VPNs also sometimes contribute to these types of issues. There’s a chance this is nothing to do with accessibility. Instead, turn off extensions, such as an ad blocker or a VPN determine if maybe they’re causing this problem.

Apple's got to much. Six soon to be seven operating systems, something has to go on the back burner. Apple's running old technology with third party speech sources, rather then working on their own voice or giving support to languages which didn't have any before, they just put out product after product. I'm disheartened there really aren't a lot of Mac users on here, or they have a windows box also. I went all in and though frustrating at times, I won't understand the, ok this behavior is making me crazy, let's use windows because it won't happen. To be blunt as hell, I kinda think it's a coward's way out. Make no mistake here. I am not bashing what tech someone uses, I'm bashing the idea of it's to hard, I give up so i'll go back to what works. sooner or later, Apple needs to be taken to task. If it means spending hundreds of dollars on ride shares to best buy or the like, showing off issues so someone can visually see the problem, not just a screen recording, will that make a difference? I don't know. I would love to see other apps for the Mac that aren't always in the app store. If someone's careful, Apple doesn't have to approve every app you install. Here's hoping someone finally takes accessibility at apple seriously.

Here's mine, and I get Safari not responding plenty.

118.8
Mbps download
125.0
Mbps upload
Latency: 13 ms

So yeah if that's slow then I don't know what to tell y'all. It's a VoiceOver issue. No, I don't have an M1 or M2 Mac, cause I'm not rich. I have a 2019 MacBook Pro, Intel i5, 8 GB RAM, and it should work. And the more people yell about calling Apple, the more I think it's bullcrap. There are blind people working at Apple. What do you think they program on? If it ain't a Mac, there's your issue.

If blind people work at apple, I'll happily give out details. I'm skeptical as all get out. Bottom line, apple's to blame, there are overwhelmingly sighted programers, I am friends with one who has said, they do not work with anyone in their vicinity who has a disability and we're not talking a lowly grunt here. Apple needs to figure it out and learn to breathe fresh air, not the stuff they breathe so far up the other end.

I hear so many people say that Apple doesn't care if a bug hasn't been squashed. I suggest that, to solve this, you people who always say this get some schooling in programming, get a job working for Apple, and start squashing these bugs! If Apple didn't care, Voice-Over would not exist. Stop your ridiculous whining and do something to resolve the issues.

Lol you think Apple would hire just anyone? No. This is Apple. If you think any one of us can fix this bug, then why don't you do it? Prove us wrong.

So we’ve hit the sort it out yourself part of the conversation except now to avoid confronting the very real and incontrovertible fact that Apple don’t have an appropriate level of resources allocated to Voiceover, as evidenced by the fact it doesn’t work like it should, the solution is to be lucky enough to have genetic material to be in the top x% of programmers, get an appropriate level of education in the corresponding skills, move to California, apply to Apple, be accepted then fix the bugs. Isn’t it just easier to, you know. Pay them a fair amount of money for a premium product and tell them when it doesn’t do what it’s meant to. The mental backflips we’re willing to do to avoid holding Apple accountable when they drop the ball is truly impressive to behold. They are big boys and girls. They can take it. We don’t need to protect them. We need them to do their jobs and make Voiceover do what it’s meant to do. Then we give them cash then we get a product that works. It’s a simple transaction or it’s meant to be.

Challenge accepted. 😁
https://www.applevis.com/forum/macos-mac-apps/safari-busy-bug-practical-though-complicated-work-around

Andy is spot on here. These products are not cheap, and we expect them to work correctly. I used a Mac for 7 years and sent constant bug reports and feature suggestions, only for the vast majority to be completely ignored. As for working for Apple and fixing these bugs yourself, good luck with that. They're looking for very specific people and from what I can gather, their culture is very shall we say restrictive. I wonder how many of the people inside the company know what's going on and would like to communicate directly with us and/or fix these problems, but are unable due to both prioritization conflicts, as well as the threat of termination for violating some policy. We'll probably never know, but I'm willing to bet it's happening.

I realize saying Apple doesn't care isn't strictly true or fair, but it sure seems like it after being ignored for such a long time. Obviously there's some great talent, and we know they can do better, but it's frustrating, and what else are you supposed to think after a while?

I completely agree with both of you. The fact that it isn't happening to everyone means this is a complex issue that is likely very hard to track down. On the latest macs does this happen? I'm talking about ones that came out on their own apple designed processors?

People have already said that the latest Macs exhibit this issue.

Hello,
Firefox has made major accessibility improvements on the Mac. Switch to it, and you will never have to deal with Apple's lack of dedication to fix this problem. Firefox may occasionally stop responding, but only for very, very short amounts of time, and quite rarely. At least this is my experience, and hopefully others will have the same.

, And hey, if any more arguments arise on this website, would anybody like to join me sitting back, eating popcorn and watching the charade? Anyone’s welcome. 😂😂Whilst my account was suspended, I was reading these posts. Dam, I should’ve bought some popcorn! Popcorn, soda, chips and chocolate. Laughing my face off as well, LOL.
Personally, I don’t experience this. Safari is not responding issue on my MacBook Air m1, And hey, if any more arguments arise on this website, would anybody like to join me sitting back, eating, popcorn and watching the charade? Anyone’s welcome.

I doubt hardware is the issue. Web pages are not computationally expensive. We're not searching for thousand-digit prime numbers or scanning SETI data for signs of extraterrestrial intelligence. We're loading web pages, something we've all been doing easily since the days of the i286 processor and 16MB RAM.

I doubt connection speed is the issue. Remember, the web pages load and respond pretty much immediately for sighted users.

Just as an exercise, I opened Google Chrome and loaded a couple of dozen different web pages and articles. I didn't experience "Google Chrome is not responding." Not once. I am aware, however, that other Mac apps experience the issue. Anything loading web content, such as the App Store or Music. Because they're all Apple apps, I bet they use the same underlying web software technology as Safari. It's a safe bet that Google Chrome uses different technology, and it doesn't have this bug. So ...

The problem is specific to VoiceOver and Apple's underlying web tech.

I'm going to guess it's a software issue. It is plausible that VoiceOver and Apple's web tech might share a memory segment between the two processes. They hold and release a mutex or semaphore to avoid reading and writing the same memory address at the same time. If one of the processes (such as Apple's web tech) holds the mutex and fails to release it because of a bug, then the other process (VoiceOver) is blocked and cannot execute. It appears hung.

The behavior we are seeing, in which VoiceOver is blocked for several seconds, looks a lot like what I would expect from a mutex or semaphore issue. These bugs are pretty hard to track down, especially once the original coders have left the company. If some new programmer were tasked with fixing it, it might be tempting for them to introduce a third process whose only purpose is to check that mutex or semaphore periodically. And if it looks like it has been held for a long time, force-release it. If this is what some Apple developer has done, then that would explain why the issue appears to clear itself up after some arbitrary number of seconds.

So why can't Apple simply fix the bug in their web tech? Suppose the bug is in the WebKit module. If I understand correctly, Apple developed this code, then contributed it to public domain. Consequently, Apple no longer has total control over that code. Indeed, this bug in WebKit+VoiceOver might actually be a feature to some other non-Apple software that also uses WebKit.

But, it's worth noting that I'm not sure this is a WebKit issue. Mozilla Firefox is built on top of WebKit, and I was not able to reproduce "Firefox is not responding" after interacting with it for some time. The issue is probably with some other software component. But it still smells like a mutex issue to me.

Sadly, all the speculation in the world doesn't get us a step closer to a fix.

The reason I don't switch to Firefox, or Google Chrome for that matter, is because neither support reader view, which is an amazing feature of Safari that I simply can't live without.

That being said, I have switched to Google Chrome for specific web pages that are broken in Safari, such as Google Drive and The Submission Grinder.

What is reader view anyway?

I like to think that Apple employees sometimes read AppleVis forum topics to get a feel for how well or poorly VoiceOver is working.

I think the odds that they will read any given forum topic is a function of the signal to noise ratio. In other words, what percent of the post and comments contain solid, actionable information relative to the number of comments that are essentially irrelevant fluff.

I'm not pointing fingers. Heck, I've had my own moments. And I know we're all frustrated. But if I were an Apple developer, I doubt I would have the patience to read all these comments. That means if one of us actually posts something that might be valuable for Apple to read, and we just happen to post it after a few dozen fluff posts, Apple will probably never see it.

We will all benefit by staying focused and keeping the signal-to-noise ratio strong.

Some Safari users have noticed that, shortly after they begin reading the content of a web page, VoiceOver focus suddenly and inexplicably jumps back to the top.

I saw this same behavior in Firefox today. I did not see it in Google Chrome. If Firefox and Safari both use WebKit, then I'll bet that's the source of the focus jumping issue.