mac users, have you considered switching back to windows/linux?

I did. Windows just has all the apps and games a blind person would want. Okay, the Mac has Ulysses and MacDown and all those good writing apps, but Windows blows VoiceOver on Mac away with its web support, which is vital these days. So I can't really rely on a Mac for Work.

I used macOS for about 7 years then got sick of Apple's neglect. I'm hoping Ventura is the start to Apple actually listening to their customers, but only time will tell.

The way how VoiceOver works with terminal and for coding process is just unreliable. I feel 500 times slower than on Windows/Linux whe performing the same work.

Does Ventura fix the terminal issues? If not, that's another area they need to work on ASAP. I thought indentation would make coding easier, though I don't know as I'm not a programmer. I've heard the sound feedback lags the speech, but hopefully this too can be fixed soon.

I installed Windows 10 on my Mac earlier this year. VO just doesn't cut it when using Microsoft Word, and the day the Amazon website froze VO; was the day i new it was time to give up. Braille support on the Mac needs some work as well.

I left Macs after Apple lost their minds trying to make thinner macbook pros in 2016.
I came back in August with an m1 max macbook pro and not sure I'll ever go back to a windows laptop.
I'll run windows (mainly to play Hearthstone) and because one of my work apps doesn't run on mac OS. Otherwise, I do everything, from coding to working with spreadsheets to web browsing comfortably on the mac with voiceover.
It's got issues, especially compared to JAWS on Windows, but it's reliable, gets the job done, and stays cool in the process.
Also, the battery life is insane!
I can't say whether or not Apple cares, but I was on the developer beta and every issue I reported got fixed quickly.
That's good enough for me.
Last time I reported bugs to Freedom Scientific, my reports were completely ignored.
Oh, and good luck reporting NVDA bugs.

Almost two years ago, I switched from Windows to an M1 machine. The mac gives me the most convincing experience I ever had with a computer. I find that things are working more consistently than they do under Windows. With JAWS, for example, I had to tab around every time until I find what I was searching for. Under macOS, I can navigate through the window of an application in a logic structure. Also, for me, I find that I get much deeper and consistent access to the system with a Screenreader than it's possible under Windows. For example, I can delete my boot volume and reinstall the Mac completely blind with VoiceOver. VoiceOver even speaks in the safe mode and even if you have only the base system installed (So, no macOS volume group) and I can boot from different volumes without sighted help needed. In my case, I'm doing more on my Mac than I've ever done on my Windows machine. Just a disclaimer, I'm mostly a braille-only user. Since Monterey, they're constantly fixing issues concerning Braille, especially in the single item mode. For me, the braille experience with Ventura is really smooth and I love the upgrade. Currently, I'd not consider switching back to Windows.

I've tried several times to switch to the Mac, but strange VoiceOver bugs or odd inefficiencies made me return to the Windows and NVDA/JAWS side. For me at least, NVDA does a far more convincing and more solid job than VoiceOver on the Mac.

Having a mac as my main machine, and a windows vm for games, mostly, I'm not really a fan of the structure and the how the OS works. I wouldn't switch. Use a vm? Yes. But use one full time as my personal machine... no.

VoiceOver on the Mac seems to have all the ingredients to be an amazing screen reader. But I do fear its foundations are too wobbly for it to ever be more than a frustrating, buggy mess. Apple always seem to prefer adding in a shiny new feature than fixing something that doesn't work.

Many of the problems are likely really hard to fix because there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to them. It's always tricky to fix something that's not reproducable, but then Apple surely have the resources if they choose to use them.

I've never used WIndows as a blind user. I've dabbled with Narrator and NVDA but am so far from being productive in any way at all with either that so far all I've done is increased my levels of frustration.

One thing the Mac does have is AppleVis. I can ask any really stupid question about it and get a sensible answer back. It's amazing. Does Windows have an equivalent? I'd love to be able to use Windows enough to be able to make a fair comparison with it and the Mac.

I've got to add, though, that Apple do know how to make their products desirable. I desperately want an Apple Silicon but I know it's likely to be just as horrible as my Intel.

I bought a MacBook Air in 2017 and tried making the switch from Windows. I'm usually excited to learn new tech, but I never quite got the hang of the Mac. Part of it was that I'd been a Windows user for more years than I care to count. I also was never completely comfortable with the choice of voice options. If my MacBook supported Ventura, I'd give it another whirl with Eloquence because it's familiar. But as far as I know, Ventura isn't supported on the 2017 model.

I'm using a 2017 iMac and Ventura installed OK. Are you sure a 2017 MacBook is too old?

I thought I had read somewhere that support started with the 2018 MacBook Air. But there's only one way to find out! Going to start up the Mac this afternoon and see if it'll update.

I use both. For work I use windows mainly because of word processing. It's just better and that's what my company ultimate wants to use. For personal use though I'm all in on the Mac! I can do anything I need to do personally on it plus the fact that syncs up with my iPhone for password manager, etc. it's just awesome. There's nothing like audio hijack on windows and I just think for what the Mac offers. It's a pretty good package all day battery life, etc.

Hello,
I am all in on the apple eco system. The only thing I use windows for right now is to play games.I think of it this way:
1. Windows is what I have to use sometimes
2. Mac is what I want to use whenever possible because I like mac better than windows on an OS level.
3. IOS and iPAD OS are the ones I love to use because I really like touch screens and have been fascinated by them since before I lost my eyesight.

It never happens, for some reason. Apparently, accessibility isn't the only reason to use a computer. And you can run VMs if you want to use operating systems that skew better on some task or other when needed.

I used to consider throwing my Mac out the window almost every day because I felt very frustrated by word processing on Mac. I can comfortably read and write and do various complex web browsing tasks on Windows. I've always appreciated Braille support using JAWS (and to a certain extent–NVDA): You can format documents and change line spacing on the fly because it is so clearly evident if spacing is inconsistent. In addition, if you forget to turn off a text attribute feature, you'll notice and can correct that almost immediately.

The issue for me was trying to impose my Windows workflow when using Mac OS: word processing just isn't the same and navigating documents is a chore if you use the default navigation shortcuts.

For some reason, I have never been able to completely understand or embrace the Windows paradigm. Once I really discovered my Mac and iPad workflows, I could never look back. Now I'm considering throwing my old Windows machine out the window (lolz not really) but I won't because I want to be able to work in both environments comfortably.

I use Mac, iOS, Linux, and I still have an old Windows 7 system. I use each for what they're good for.

There was once a time when I couldn't imagine using any other operating system than HPUX, LOL. Then there were a few years where it was Windows NT or nothing.

Despite many people singing the praises of Windows, just as many find Windows frustrating and challenging. I was once on the JAWS users email list, and much like AppleVis, it was a mix of helpful tips and complaints about bugs.

So I think preference depends, in large part, on comfort. If you take the time to learn Windows with NVDA, or Linux with Orca or SpeakUp, or a Mac with VoiceOver, then that will eventually become your preferred system.

Switching to a new platform isn't without its cost. It would take me weeks, possibly months, to switch to Windows 11 and become as productive in that environment as I am now on Mac. Unless there's some objective and inarguable benefit to a new platform, it's just not worth the downtime to switch.

I wouldn't switch back to windows if you paid for everything and committed to continue paying for all the technical assistance and windows products and computer hardware I would need and would continue needing.

I started using microsoft dos in the 80's. When microsoft switched to windows, I thoroughly hated it. For decades afterward in my law practice, I hated it, and when I finally retired, I finally said, "F**k this!" After that, I bought a Mac and learned VoiceOver.

No way am I going back to rebooting several dozen times a day, or back to buying gobs of apps just to keep the computer working from month to month or from being infected or in some other way compromised. No sir. You are more than welcome to windows, and if you like it, I wish you well. If, on the other hand, you would like to learn why you were having VoiceOver or Mac issues, post on this web site, asking for help.

I've used Windows machines for the longest time and about 5 years ago, decided to give Macs a chance. Plus, being the unofficial tech support in my circle of family and friends, figured that I should give it a fair shake.

So got myself a 2017 MacBook Pro and being fully aware of the negative comments regarding the onboard keyboard, I didn't find the keyboard that horrible but could understand why some people weren't crazy about it. Besides, for me, I tend to use my computers with an external full size keyboard anyway. When I first got it, I was offered training from our local institution for the blind, but when I heard that the new trainer was also new to Macs, I politely declined and decided to figure things out on my own.

After several months, I began getting used to it and did find some positives. Getting updates through the OS for drivers, all in one place, n app store with a plethora of applications that you can easily download and install onto your machine, being able to send text messages and making Facetime/regular calls, even the continuity feature, made Macs very appealing.

the only gripes I had with the OS was the way of navigating and interacting with the OS and applications using VoiceOver, I found it a tad cumbersome, and never could quite grasp how the Finder was structured.

As for restoring the Mac OS, I never needed to go into the Recovery Assistant but, when I recently sold my Mac, with the help of a fellow blind Mac user friend of mine, was able to get into the Recovery Assistant, wipe the drive and reinstall the OS with minimum difficulty. I say minimum difficulty as, when we tried reinstalling, I made a minor mistake and hadn't connected my computer to the internet, so the OS hadn't installed properly, and after several hours of troubleshooting, had to go into my local Apple Store and have a genius do it for me instead. Understanding where I went wrong, I can honestly say that, being able to wipe and reinstall the OS on my own is another positive of using a Mac over Windows.

But after 5 years, I realized that I was much more productive and efficient using JAWS on Windows then I was using VoiceOver on a Mac. So I sold my Mac to a friend, whom bought it for her granddaughter, and went back to a Windows laptop.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not out of the Mac world at all. I may buy a Mac Mini once they're updated with the M2 chip, but that machine would mainly be for fun and in order to keep up to date on Macs. My daily driver is still my Windows laptop.

At the end of this, I'd have to say that there isn't one better then the other, it all boils down to picking the machine that is a better fit for you. But I do recommend, if you're able to and are interested in checking them out, give Macs a chance and see if it might be a fit for you.

I don't switch. I just keep several operating systems around. I have a 14-inch MacBook Pro with M1 Pro processor, and an x86 machine that has Linux and Windows installed on separate partitions. On the latter, I'm mostly using Linux at the moment. I'm no longer in a work environment that depends on Microsoft applications, so my Windows usage has declined greatly.

I find Linux better for command line work, which I do frequently, and for text editing. It's also fine for email and Web access, including communication applications such as Zoom.

The Mac is good for running various proprietary applications, and serves well for email, the Web and other tasks. It's also an extraordinary machine from a performance standpoint - fast, light-weight and reputedly with an excellent battery, which I'll find out about when I travel with it.

This is what I would pick up to take to a conference or a meeting. The integration with iOS is also very useful (e.g., for reading text messages, or creating notes that are available across all devices).

I've had two working systems for a very long time. These days, one is a Mac and the other isn't - the right combination for me at the moment.

I use a Windows desktop for my online radio station. So, I feel quite comfortable on Windows, but also very much love Mac OS. I haven't had a lot of the issues people have been describing with Voiceover. I got my first Macbook back in 2009, had to sell it after college, then switched back and forth several times depending on what I could afford, and what kind of offers I could find on Amazon or eBay. But since having picked up my m1 air, I absolutely love it. And having utmost on it for running the occasional Windows program is perfect.

So decided to go back to windows some eight months ago. Got nice lightweight high spec Windows laptop. On the first drop on the floor, the screen cracked, the right side bent and some odd performance ssues made me regret my decision and went straight away and got nice MacBook Pro M1.
NVDA stops talking at the weirdest of times. It is so sluggish with MSWord. Heat and noise from the laptop of Windows OS are something that you would never expect to be gone. I am sensitive to heat, noise, and scratchy surfaces, Macs do not have these. I got almost 18 hours on my MacBook Pro, it is very snappy, I receive calls, send messages, share files with all my other Apple devices. So you decide your use case, for me Macs work the best, no matter how whimful whimful I get sometimes.

I use Windows for work, but for personal use, it's a Mac all the way. I have used macs since 2011. My mac performs well for what I use it for, and I just feel they are more user-friendly. I did have a personal Windows 10 machine here for a while, alongside my Mac, but like a previous poster, I found NVDA to be sluggish and slow.

yeah i switched back from mac to windows in 2018, after 7 years of mac usage as main machine at home.
Monterey was the first update no longer compatible with my machine so I gave it up and did not buy another one - it's not worth it, concerning my needs.
Don't know, but especially in Internet navigation Windows screen readers are more reliable for me.

I switched to windows after been with Mac for 4 years.
My language is Hebrew and for Voice Over userscis worsed.
I am using Windows and Jaws and I like it.
The Hebrew Braille table is terrible, and Braille support on Mac is not good.

Yeah right not anymore. Just look at the number of bugs in iOS 16.

Apple claims accessibility is a "core value" it isn't a core value if you let major accessibility issues linger for over a year.

Believe it or not, I had a wonderful convo with a senior apple advisor and i ripped Apple a new butt, a new face, new arms and legs. Why? Because Voice over is I think ten or thirteen years old, and they don't update it. You can be proud of new language support, except all they did was shell out money for old tech to do its' job. For all the languages who did not have support, I'm very happy you are brought into the ecosystem. I know it's not and never will be a screen reader. However if you stop innovating shiny watches, TVs' homepods, etc, and go back to actual work, you might be surprised. I also confirmed that under their knowledge, my theory has been once again proven. Absolutely zero disabled workers of any kind, report to them. Yes, NDAs' are a factor and I'm not expecting official numbers. But once again it proves, Joe Q Tester, voice over on, flip, touch, send it out. So I haven't updated my Mac until I hear Alex isn't as god awful as it is on my phone. I have no one to blame but myself, since I never care if the should i upgrade? topic gets discussed. I'll wait till at least 13.3 or something. Seriously Apple, get your head where the sun shines, believe in yourself and the creating process again.

There are so many benefits to having both computers. I only have a mac, but I'd get a windows computer if I had the money. I like Mac because Google Drive is very accessible with VO. When I tried using Google Drive on Windows, it didn't work very well although that was over 7 years ago so I'm sure it's improved since then. I do however think windows is better for coding, and navigating the web.

I'd like to update my previous comment to make it a resounding yes. I've moved my Windows laptop next to my Mac and I'm going to slowly try moving over to it even though I've no idea what I'm doing.

The problem with the Mac is it never works the same way twice. I genuinely do not trust my Mac. I can't go more than a few minutes without hitting something that stops me in my tracks. Whether it's having to tab away and back from apps, or turning VO on and off, or having to fight with Safari to get to the tab I just opened, or when the text editor just randomly stops behaving and reads words that aren't there, or stops reading the line I've moved to, or won't move up at all and moves left instead, or whatever other nonsense it decides it's going to do... honestly, there isn't a single thing on the Mac that is working well for me.

And although I've been asking some stupid questions on these forums, I feel like I'm becoming reasonably comfortable with the commands. The num pad is a really nice way to use VO. Well, it would be.

NVDA on Windows does feel a bit less polished, maybe, but it surely can't be less frustrating than using my Mac.

I'm so desperate for the Mac to be good, and I was feeling weirdly optimistic about Ventura, but I think it's got worse not better with this release. If I don't try an alternative, then my Mac is going to send me to an early grave.

Siobhan did a great job of summing up our frustrations.

Still, I stick with my Mac, because keeping what I'm familiar with beats the downtime of moving to a new environment. But it feels like we're right on the edge with VoiceOver quality, like it's just about to fall off the usability cliff.

What's the current state of the art for Apple support on Windows? There used to be an iTunes app that could be used to manage a music library and sync it to an iPhone. Is that, or something similar, still available? Is it accessible with NVDA and JAWS?

iTunes for Windows is still available, but I'm not sure how accessible it is. I remember reading a while ago that the version directly from Apple was more accessible than the Microsoft Store version, but can't say if that's still accurate.

HTH

I mainly use my Mac for both work and personal but I also use windows to train students and Microsoft Teams. my work provide me with the windows machine but every time I try to do data record the machine always froze up and I have to restart again, so now I do everything on the Mac and I am happy with the outcome. I still continue use the windows but every time I'm on the windows I always got so annoy with the way windows run.

After three years and a half of usage, now I have my Mackbook air for sale, the question was so easy to answer, mine is “Microsoft office “. I never could be able to manage office in the macOS environment, which is absolutely necessary for my job.

I thought a little about running Windows on my Mac just for kicks, but when I heard/read that my battery wouldn't be too happy with me I abandoned that idea. This is my second Mac, and I respectfully disagree. I began using a Mac full-time in early 2014, and would have to say that over the years Apple has done a lot for accessibility. I'm strictly a VoiceOver user, and in recent years a Siri user as well. I love the addition of all these voices, and it just seems that in addition to accessibility Apple has done a lot for their user base. The Mac I'm using now is an M1, and while I've not noticed any major differences the sound quality seems to be a bit better. Touch ID has yet to be set up on here. As far as tech support being out-sourced, I think it's a game of wait-and-see if that even happens at all. Somehow I don't believe it will, but then again I'm not good when it comes to the business side of these things. Having said all that, I would like to try out Microsoft Narrator again just to see what has been improved.

Hello,
I posted in this thread a while ago, but since then, have had a few things change for me. While I stand by my previous comments about not having a lot of the Voiceover issues a lot of people have had, but I have decided that it would be easier to just stick to one OS. Only one set of keyboard commands to remember, etc. I can't count the times I've been on my Windows desktop and tried to use a VO command, or on the Mac and tried using an NVDA keystroke. lol
Also, I previously mentioned using a vm to run Windows programs but there seems to be an issue with UTM in which the VM crashes quite frequently. So while fun to mess around with, I can't be productive on Windows VM running on the Mac. For my software that I use for an online radio station, I found out I am able to install that on two computers, but it makes no sense to install it on the vm which can easily crash on me, and also you can't share audio devices on both Mac and Windows.
So, having considered all that, and that the m1 is really more computing power than I really need, and that I can get by with something more basic on the Windows side, I have decided to go ahead and put the MacBook Air up for sale. It's the standard m1 model if anyone is interested, feel free to contact me privately. Mac OS is a great OS, but I just want to switch back to have greater consistency. I rarely find myself doing iMessage, FaceTime or handoff. So I don't really know that there are any features of Mac OS other than Airdrop that I will desperately miss, and surely there has got to be a decent substitute for that. Amadeus Pro is a great audio editor, but Goldwave on the Windows side is just as good, at least for what I need to do.