I'm on Sonoma and I am confused. What's the difference between window spots, web spots and hot spots. It seems like they've recently changed, but the documentation isn't clarifying things for me.
And it appears that there are also user created web spots too. I think Apple needs to create a section describing them in a little more detail.
Anyone have examples of how they use them? For example, do you use them in the music app to read the artist and song title? I'm going to try that tonight.
When do you use a hot spot and when a window spot? It's pretty clear when you use a web spot, but I read something and I don't remember where about how window and web spots are now the same thing. It could have been misinformation though.
I spent more time with the Sonoma guide, and in the what's new section it says window and web spots are now the same thing. So apparently those commands to go specifically to web spots no longer are active -- I'm at work so cannot check until later.
Also it appears Hotspots depend on exact screen coordinates and of course they are numbered. Window/Web spots are unlimited though you can choose to navigate previous and next through those that are created by you, or those automatically created. And of course you can find window spots on the rotor but not hotspots.
I am still looking for good examples of people actually using them.
I should create a guide about this, but I only have this Mac for another two weeks, and I don't want it to be inaccurate. Someone else who owns a Sonoma Mac should create such a guide or podcast though for us beginners!
And for those who keep comparing Ms Windows to Mac, the power of these vvarious spots is something you don't get in a Windows screen reader. It intrigues me, because it could really improve the accesibility of many apps.
I now find myself wondering where I spend the most time and effort navigating, a situation exactly the type that would be most useful using hot window wit what spots. Imagine repeatedly spending ten second every day to get somewhere you can instantly jump to with a single keystroke.
Hmm. I'm glad you asked this question, Deborah. It's making me think. And thank you for the links, Brian, I've already read and bookmarked them for future reference. Now, I'm going to pay close attention all day to my keyboard behavior to see where spots might best be used. smile. Thanks!
While I don't use Web or Window Spots, I find Hotspots particularly useful in the Messages app, as I can simply press VO-1 to jump to the conversations collection, VO-2 to jump to the messages collection, and VO-3 to jump to the message text field. Yes, I can cycle through these elements using VO-J, but depending on where I am in the window, I may need to press it more than once to jump to my desired element, versus one keystroke to predictably jump to my desired element from anywhere in the window.
May I ask that all three of these things be explained for those using Windows? I have no idea whatsoever, yet am curious especially after reading that comment saying they are what makes VoiceOver on MacOS more robust compared to Windows screen readers.
Imagine you are reading through a long list of posts on a message board. Or reading a long news article etc. You have to command tab out for whatever reason.
Creating a hotspot will guarantee you get right back to where you were last without any hassle. And you can make a lot of Hot Spots.
On a side note, there used to be a "Sweet Spot", but I think Apple did away with those. Shame, as those let you mark a point on anything for VO to focus on once that thing loaded.
Ex: Loading AppleVis and having VO focus on the first of the newest posts.
"Window spots and hotspots in VoiceOver on Macs are similar to the concept of the bookmark system in Freedom Scientific's JAWS screen reader. Unlike bookmarks, which are limited to HTML navigation, window spots and hotspots can be used system-wide. If there are any JAWS veterans out there, please feel free to correct me, as I've been using Mac as my daily driver for over 4 years now."
Close enough I suppose. To put it in layman's terms, Hot Spots lets you mark the exact position of the VO cursor, so long as the VO cursor can get to that spot, it can be Hot Spotted.
You can Hot Spot everything from plain text, to any type of control. Hell, you can even Hot Spot the Separators in the Dock on your desktop. 😁
Assuming VoiceOver has the screen recognition feature on MacOS as well, you should even be able to use this bookmarking thing with items unlabeled by default. This should be more convenient in apps where VoiceOver just reports a bunch of unlabeled buttons and you don't feel like memorizing which one does what.
VoiceOver on macOS does not have Screen Recognition, and even if it did, I'd doubt its large-scale usefulness, as at least in my experience, it has offered only modest accessibility benefit on iOS.
If you're already aware of what to expect, then you'll get just that. There have been cases where I could use an app just by enabling Screen Recognition and tapping around, but I was also able to use an app by taking screenshots and having Be My Eyes describe them, and then trying to tap the option that I was trying to locate according to the descriptions. So now that we have AI to describe the screenshots that we take, we should be able to make better use of Screen Recognition without needing sighted assistance.
I've gotten it like halfway, but then somehow i get stuck. I might bring this to youbreakIfix, yes real store, and let them do it. No app has made me throw my hands up this much. I swear, I am somewhat knowledgable but this app... :)
Another option for unlabelled buttons is to use VO+/ and you can give the button a label of your own. If you can figure out what they do in the first place of course! :)
i use hotspots a good bit in various apps on my mac. i have activities set up for each app, to make sure that the hotspots i set only try to work in that app, as i had some issues if i didn't do that. but anyways, it works well. i use it in messages, in music, in a couple others i can't think of right now. but anyways, they are very handy for jumping quickly from focus to focus in an app. love using them.
You also need to keep in mind that the hot spot works for only ten points across the entire system. To work around this limitation, you need to create activities for the application you want to use it with. This way, each application can have up to ten hot spots instead of being limited to just ten for the whole system. 😁
Comments
Explanations
Hotspots:
https://support.apple.com/en-mt/guide/voiceover/vo14092/mac#:~:text=You%20can%20assign%20a%20hot,long%20as%20Mail%20is%20open).
Window Spots:
https://support.apple.com/lv-lv/guide/voiceover/vodb32850f37/mac
Finally, as I understand things, Web Spots are similar to Window Spots, except Mac creates them automatically. They are then accessed via the Rotor.
HTH.
I read that but still a little confused
And it appears that there are also user created web spots too. I think Apple needs to create a section describing them in a little more detail.
Anyone have examples of how they use them? For example, do you use them in the music app to read the artist and song title? I'm going to try that tonight.
When do you use a hot spot and when a window spot? It's pretty clear when you use a web spot, but I read something and I don't remember where about how window and web spots are now the same thing. It could have been misinformation though.
I found my answer I think
I spent more time with the Sonoma guide, and in the what's new section it says window and web spots are now the same thing. So apparently those commands to go specifically to web spots no longer are active -- I'm at work so cannot check until later.
Also it appears Hotspots depend on exact screen coordinates and of course they are numbered. Window/Web spots are unlimited though you can choose to navigate previous and next through those that are created by you, or those automatically created. And of course you can find window spots on the rotor but not hotspots.
I am still looking for good examples of people actually using them.
I should create a guide about this, but I only have this Mac for another two weeks, and I don't want it to be inaccurate. Someone else who owns a Sonoma Mac should create such a guide or podcast though for us beginners!
And for those who keep comparing Ms Windows to Mac, the power of these vvarious spots is something you don't get in a Windows screen reader. It intrigues me, because it could really improve the accesibility of many apps.
Asking myself
I now find myself wondering where I spend the most time and effort navigating, a situation exactly the type that would be most useful using hot window wit what spots. Imagine repeatedly spending ten second every day to get somewhere you can instantly jump to with a single keystroke.
Hmm. I'm glad you asked this question, Deborah. It's making me think. And thank you for the links, Brian, I've already read and bookmarked them for future reference. Now, I'm going to pay close attention all day to my keyboard behavior to see where spots might best be used. smile. Thanks!
Hotspots in Messages
While I don't use Web or Window Spots, I find Hotspots particularly useful in the Messages app, as I can simply press VO-1 to jump to the conversations collection, VO-2 to jump to the messages collection, and VO-3 to jump to the message text field. Yes, I can cycle through these elements using VO-J, but depending on where I am in the window, I may need to press it more than once to jump to my desired element, versus one keystroke to predictably jump to my desired element from anywhere in the window.
Perhaps off-topic but...
May I ask that all three of these things be explained for those using Windows? I have no idea whatsoever, yet am curious especially after reading that comment saying they are what makes VoiceOver on MacOS more robust compared to Windows screen readers.
Hot spot example use case
This was in another post, sometime ago...
Imagine you are reading through a long list of posts on a message board. Or reading a long news article etc. You have to command tab out for whatever reason.
Creating a hotspot will guarantee you get right back to where you were last without any hassle. And you can make a lot of Hot Spots.
On a side note, there used to be a "Sweet Spot", but I think Apple did away with those. Shame, as those let you mark a point on anything for VO to focus on once that thing loaded.
Ex: Loading AppleVis and having VO focus on the first of the newest posts.
So I assume they're like landmarks?
Landmarks, bookmarks or whatever.
"Window spots and hotspots…
"Window spots and hotspots in VoiceOver on Macs are similar to the concept of the bookmark system in Freedom Scientific's JAWS screen reader. Unlike bookmarks, which are limited to HTML navigation, window spots and hotspots can be used system-wide. If there are any JAWS veterans out there, please feel free to correct me, as I've been using Mac as my daily driver for over 4 years now."
Re: So I assume they're like landmarks?
Close enough I suppose. To put it in layman's terms, Hot Spots lets you mark the exact position of the VO cursor, so long as the VO cursor can get to that spot, it can be Hot Spotted.
You can Hot Spot everything from plain text, to any type of control. Hell, you can even Hot Spot the Separators in the Dock on your desktop. 😁
Sounds quite handy indeed.
Assuming VoiceOver has the screen recognition feature on MacOS as well, you should even be able to use this bookmarking thing with items unlabeled by default. This should be more convenient in apps where VoiceOver just reports a bunch of unlabeled buttons and you don't feel like memorizing which one does what.
VoiceOver on macOS does not…
VoiceOver on macOS does not have Screen Recognition, and even if it did, I'd doubt its large-scale usefulness, as at least in my experience, it has offered only modest accessibility benefit on iOS.
It's helped me fairly well.
If you're already aware of what to expect, then you'll get just that. There have been cases where I could use an app just by enabling Screen Recognition and tapping around, but I was also able to use an app by taking screenshots and having Be My Eyes describe them, and then trying to tap the option that I was trying to locate according to the descriptions. So now that we have AI to describe the screenshots that we take, we should be able to make better use of Screen Recognition without needing sighted assistance.
VOCR, maybe?
VOCR might be useful here, alongside Hot Spots. 🤷🏼♂️
I'll never get VOCR installed
I've gotten it like halfway, but then somehow i get stuck. I might bring this to youbreakIfix, yes real store, and let them do it. No app has made me throw my hands up this much. I swear, I am somewhat knowledgable but this app... :)
FL has the best named computer repair stores, I swear...
Best that I ever experienced; Winchester Computers.
Just makes me think of a shotgun. 😫
Re: unlabelled buttons
Another option for unlabelled buttons is to use VO+/ and you can give the button a label of your own. If you can figure out what they do in the first place of course! :)
hotspots in apps
i use hotspots a good bit in various apps on my mac. i have activities set up for each app, to make sure that the hotspots i set only try to work in that app, as i had some issues if i didn't do that. but anyways, it works well. i use it in messages, in music, in a couple others i can't think of right now. but anyways, they are very handy for jumping quickly from focus to focus in an app. love using them.
Just remember one thing…
You also need to keep in mind that the hot spot works for only ten points across the entire system. To work around this limitation, you need to create activities for the application you want to use it with. This way, each application can have up to ten hot spots instead of being limited to just ten for the whole system. 😁