Hello.
On May 25 I submitted the following review to the Apple accessibility department" " Felix Turnin
Hello
I’d like to complain that VO for Mac is much less accessible in reading various HTML elements and pop-ups in comparison to it’s iOS counterpart.
For example, when choosing fxTrade
live account on this page https://fxtrade.oanda.co.uk/your_account/fxtrade/register/gate a pop-up appears, suggesting to choose my country of residence, but for VO MAC users this pop-up does not exist.
Another example is this source http://moneyinnetwork.ru/gostevaya-stranica-obshheniya-posetitelej-sajta
Even though this site is not in English, you can see minus and plus buttons, which allow to agree or disagree with a comment. VO on iOS reads and allows to interact with this element, while VO for Mac is absolutely powerless. Instead it reads “clickable” which is absolutely useless.
Hope you’ll rectify this bug.
I would also like to ask about Flash support.
Are you planning to ad it so that VO could read Flash text and webpages elements?
Best regards, Felix."
Their reply was: "Hello,
Thank you for your email. We appreciate the feedback and will pass this on to the appropriate people for their consideration.
Apple Accessibility
Please also visit our sites
http://www.apple.com/accessibility/
http://www.apple.com/support/accessibility/"
They didn't even answer my query. Upon updating to OS 10.93, I sent the report again, this time citing additional VO bugs.
"Felix Turnin
Hello.
Since these bugs persist in OS 10.93, I’d like to duplicate the complaint that VO for Mac is much less accessible in reading various HTML elements and pop-ups in comparison to it’s iOS counterpart.
For example, when choosing "fxTrade live account" on this page https://fxtrade.oanda.co.uk/your_account/fxtrade/register/gate a pop-up appears, suggesting to choose my country of residence, however for VO MAC users this pop-up does not exist.
Another live example is this source http://moneyinnetwork.ru/gostevaya-stranica-obshheniya-posetitelej-sajta
Even though this site is not in English, you can see minus and plus buttons, which allow to agree or disagree with a comment. VO on iOS reads and allows to interact with this element, while VO for Mac is absolutely powerless. Instead it reads “clickable” which is absolutely useless.
Another significant problem is VO often reading "safari power saver" as well as various dock items, instead of reading web page content.
Hope you’ll rectify these annoying bugs.
I would also like to ask about Flash support.
Are you planning to ad it so that VO could read Flash text and webpage elements?
Best regards, Felix."
Their reply was: "Hello,
Thank you for your email. We appreciate the feedback and will pass this on to the appropriate people for their consideration.
Apple Accessibility
Please also visit our sites
http://www.apple.com/accessibility/
http://www.apple.com/support/accessibility/"
Therefore, the question arises as to whether Apple really reads accessibility bug reports or shrugs them off simply by letting us talk to email bot?
What do you think about these bugs and Apple replies?
Regards
Comments
Hi, I have reported a
Hi, I have reported a synthesizer bug, and they replied, wanting more information. I think that's an auto e-mail which tells you that the message is read. If they need additionel information or have a problem with your bug they reply.
I also agree wiht that. When
I also agree wiht that. When I was at one time a dev beta testing I got the same thing, then they woudl ask for further nfo if needed. If not they would not. It makes thing s easier and less cluttered in my inbox.
apple accessibility
hi.
i aggree with you on the responces that apple made in reguards to your bug reports. it would be nice if apple would respond in a way that doesn't sound like they are pushing people away. wish they would agnolledge the bug, and either explain.a work around to fix it, or tell you if they are working on a solution.
hi
hi friend.
first let me thank you for having informed the apple accessibility of these bugs.
yes, I think that the mail system is automatic and people 's accessibility department do not even see the contents of the messages.
the system is already set up to give that response message that all of us are already tired of hearing and I'm sure no one takes us seriously.
I already left to report accessibility problems apple by making sure they do not want us to hear.
apple accessibility should have more respect for that blind users and strive to inform the apple of the problems that they should have the responsibility to solve.
apple you have to have more respect for the blind community that purchase and spend your money with Apple products.
if apple says that the products she creates are all accessible, and it makes people with disabilities have the same rights as normal people.
Apple has a duty to solve our problems in the same way that resolves the problems of normal people.
apple you have to have more responsibility than you're having.
I'll be forced to sell my imac to buy an iPad apple product air because I know and I'm sure that apple is giving more prominence accessibility to mobile devices.
accessibility on mac is running out of charge response from the apple.
cheers.
If more people bothered to send bug reports and feedback.
First of all, to say that Apple doesn't care and doesn't give us attention we deserve is utterly irresponsible and completely disrespectful. If they did not read the feedback left, then many of the same bugs from iOS three would remain. But things are constantly being looked at and repaired based on ability and more importantly, customer feedback and the number of people actually writing and calling in about the issue.
Have you ever stop to think that maybe they don't have an answer for you? Because they're working on it, but maybe they don't know themselves how to fix it. also, if they're working on it and don't have a solution, maybe they don't want to give you false hope by providing an answer they can't be sure about.
Beyond that, you also have the ability to specifically call into Apple accessibility and ask the same question as well as reporting said bugs. Of you done that? If You call in, you would at least have the opportunity to speak to a real person instead of sending an email and getting back in automatic message.
It was previously suggested that if more individuals submitted feedback and called into Apple accessibility regarding voiceover and OS X bugs, the developers might take a greater interest regarding the voice over bugs. Many of you, not all, but many of you flatly stated that you thought it was not a good idea to step on their toes because you did not want to annoy them. Some of you went even as far as to say that if you complain too much voice over might be taken away.
I Stand by what I said and I've proven my case repeatedly. when a greater number of people state the same issue, Apple takes greater interest in actually fixing it. For example, when a great number of people complained about the bug regarding their messages not being received or sent out due to moving over to an android phone, but iMessage still recognizing the phone number used as an eye device, Apple acknowledged it and is actively working to resolve the issue. Similarly, when iOS 7 came out, many of us suffered through and complained about the touch sensitivity issue on iOS devices. This was resolved in iOS 7 .0 .1. It only happened because a greater number of us called and wrote to Apple regarding the issue
To say that they don't care and aren't aware of us as blind users is incredibly a responsible. My friends, are using a screen reader provided at no charge. One that in many ways surpasses other screen readers usability and functionality.
You have every right to be frustrated, angry, upset, etc.
To say that they don't read our messages and aren't making any changes is unfair because they are constantly making changes and repairs. If they don't automatically respond to or fix every bug, it's probably because they either haven't received enough feedback from enough users yet or they are working on it and haven't figured out how to resolve it.
Try calling 18772043930. Maybe they received your email and didn't reply, but that doesn't mean you can't call and talk with a real life person about the issue.
Not just ios, osx as well
In the previous post I wrote that many of the same bucks from iOS 3 would remain if the developers and engineers weren't working on the said bugs. That is true, however I was too narrow and should've also stated that many of the same bugs from Tiger or lion would still be around if none of the engineers were fixing these bugs. Frankly, as many of the Apple accessibility team members have repeatedly told me, most of the fixes are based primarily on people sending in feedback and calling in to report bugs so that the Apple accessibility team can make the engineers aware of said bugs. Also, it is highly dependent on how many people actually report the issues. If 100 people call to Apple accessibility about one bug, they would be more likely to pay greater attention to that over five people calling in for a different bug. It doesn't mean the five people called should be ignored, it just means that a company focused on making money might have higher priority towards a majority over a minority. Don't mean the majority sighted people over the minority visually impaired community. I mean a larger number calling in about a particular bug over a smaller number calling in about the particular bug.
Dear Vash Rein, do you use OS
Dear Vash Rein, do you use OS 10?
This system has been moving from bad to worse with each new release.
I can go with VO inability to interact with Flash, but being unable to submit a pretty standard online form gives me occasion to think that Apple has shifted it's attention from VO for Mac to something else.
I use osx and can say nothing
I use osx and can say nothing bad on it. I have been usign it for 4 years and have had very good experiences with it. I will never go back to windows as long as I live, except when I need to program my radio, but tha'ts the only time I'd use windows, and when and if I need firefox.
Apple is grate but they do love when we report bugs and actually a rep told one of my friends that not many people were reporting his bugs and they wanted more people to report them. I can't remember what they were, but yeah.
Osx rocks and will only get better and better.
Agreed about the Bug Reporting
Hi everyone. I agree about bug reporting. If a bunch of us write or call in about a given bug, then Apple is much more likely to act upon it. I haven't reported many bugs only because I haven't used the Mac for very long, but just recently I emailed the accessibility team regarding a speech issue which I along with others have been experiencing. I also phoned the accessibility team just after I got my Mac, regarding some confusion I was having on another issue. The rep who assisted me was very friendly, and he and I got the problem resolved. It took some time though, not because of something on their end but because I hadn't at the time used Safari very much. So to say that Apple just doesn't care is not only irresponsible, it is not true either.
I use osx
I use OS X and have been doing so with a MacBook air. It originally came out with Mountain lion and I have updated it to Mavericks. I am primarily a Windows user, but can say that in my opinion, Mavericks seems to be a very well done operating system.
Whether or not it's operability has gotten worse over the years, I can't say. However, from what I have seen, there have been a specific accessibility issues resolved since Mavericks has come out. Apple also specifically mentions voice over fixes in their change logs usually when updating systems.
Believe me, I know what it's like to use something, and then go to the frustration of experiencing bugs. But it is our responsibility to not only email, but call Apple to report issues. Realistically, the more we do it, the more likely they are to focus on trying to find a fix for it. It's not going to always be immediate, but it does eventually get fixed.
Yeah the rep that was helping
Yeah the rep that was helping my friend said the same thing. the reason they don't fix the bugs is that not enough people are reporting them. Makes sence as I won a website and if only 1 person reports somethign it might not get fixed, In fact, it will not get fixed. but if many users report the same thing it might have a better chance of getting fixed unless I'm having a bad month and don't want to solve the problem. lol!
take care to all.
No problem accessing the OP's sites here with VO on OSX
In my testing of the OP's complaints I found that the 2 main issues are, in fact, easily accessible using OSX VO.
1. The list of regions/countries in the first website is already provided in a perfectly accessible list of links gathered under a properly labeled heading in OSX Safari. No annoying popup list required.
2. The plus and minus signs in the second website are perfectly accessible using OSX VO in the current version of the standard accessible alternate OSX browser, CHrome.
Regarding Flash, Flash players are only accessible where Adobe has chosen to make them accessible. Several years ago Adobe publicly announced they would not be making their Flash players accessible to VO. If access to Adobe content such as Flash & PDF files is crucial to a User, I strongly suggest running Windows.
Macbook Air 6,1; OSX 10.9.3; Safari 7.0.3; Chrome 35.0.1916.114