New Sonos app update with all-new design on May 7 - Any information on Accessibility?

From what I found, they are very receptive to feedback. I know when I was part of the Beta program, they're pretty strict on NDA, but maybe someone knows something I don't.

I'd also ask if it is possible to still use current equipment on the current app. Is this going to be a new app, EG, you have to download a new app from the appstore, or is it just an update? I'm hoping its the former, in that way we won't have our gear nurfed.

Hi, I'm not part of the beta team but know others who have been. And having used their equipment myself for over 11 years I can say their long-term record for being committed to Accessibility is admirable. While announcements of such updates give us all pause, speaking strictly for myself I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt based on that history until I have reason to do otherwise. I did see one Sonos employee post in a forum and state that this commitment is solid and they hope to maintain and even further their commitment to accessibility with this update as well as going forward. So that's something. Only time will tell but for now I will remain hopeful. Happy listening and accessing one and all.

I absolutely love my Sonos - I use it all the time and have collected a number of them about the house over the years. I am a little worried about this update but am trying to take some comfort from the words above. I noticed that in the iPhone app it did ask if I wanted to preview it, but I was too scared.

My doubts over accessibility come partly from the desktop apps - at least the Mac app was not accessible in the slightest. You could maybe play and pause and do a few rudimentary things if you could overlook the unlabelled buttons, but any lists etc were totally unusable. And they never seemed to engage with posts about it on the community.

Also, I did email the accessibility address a few times both about this and a few minor issues on their shopping portal, but I never got a reply.

What I've heard of the new app also worries me a little. Getting rid of the tabs and having a bit complicated, customisable home screen sounds terrible. I was also hearing that to access room controls you now swipe up from the bottom. I'm not sure how that works with VoiceOver.

Anyway let's hope my concerns are unfounded. I'm glad to hear that they seem to value accessibility, at least on the iPhone app.

I also see they are retiring the desktop apps. I don't think they ever really took them seriously after the last big update where they removed a load of features. I hope that the new web apps will be accessible.

My main worry with these things is how we would be able to engage with Sonos if there are problems as I have had no success with this in the past. I think I am just a little paranoid as I will be distraught if the Sonos app breaks for me.

I know Jonathan Mosen has those devices, maybe he will do a demo on the new features if he uses the app. People suggest it to him.

Thanks for the warning - I was really hoping for some other news.

I presume if I want to stop the Sonos app updating, I have to turn automatic updates off for all apps in the app store? Will have a fiddle later.

I hope they wil resolve to fix this and haven't just given up.

Sorry the link you posted above didn't seem to work for me, but I have now read the blog post so can answer my own question. Yes I need to disable app updates for everything and then hope I don't accidentally trigger the update.

And I had hoped that the web app would fix the barely usable Mac app, but it seems this too is inaccessible.

My Sonos is one of the few things that has survived my transition from being sighted to blind and I use it for many hours every single day. I feel totally betrayed by this.

Well, if it is as bad as all that, I hope they get dragged over the coals and then backwards through a rosebush... legally. Thankfully there are consumer laws protecting the disabled. In a time where Sonos is looking to release new products, they will be foolish to release a substandard app, the publicity blow back would look very bad indeed. It's not a company who can just shrug it off like apple, it's a narrower market and there will be very little excuse for not having done their best in app development.

I'm only hoping the description of the app from the beta user was indeed describing the beta aspect of it and the finished push is going to be better but, if not, I think we'd be within our rights to demand a full refund for all sonos equipment rendered unusable irrespective of its age.

I was really excited about the new headphones. Looks like I'll have to wait for the crap that apple pushes out for the max update instead, which sounds like it's going to be DOA, according to rumours.

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Do you think that we genuinely have that kind of a voice? I hope you are right and I hope Sonos does get the message somehow. I'd love it if some of the bigger tech sites like the Verge could report on this kind of thing. I tend to feel that I am just totally powerless with this sort of thing, and I can try to shout about the UK Disability Discrimination Act or whatever, but I'm not sure anyone is listening. Could any of us really afford to actually bring legal action against a company like Sonos?

For now I am going to cling onto the old app for dear life and hope I don't accidentally tap Update All in the app store, which I definitely will at some point. It's a shame that you can't downgrade an app because I would really like to try this out for myself, and also leave a 1 star review if it is as bad as this.

I am at least glad that Jonathan Mosen is on the case.

I guess at least there are some alternatives to the Sonos app for doing some things. Sonos Voice Control is pretty good (although it does keep breaking on one of my Sonos speakers, which is likely because another room keeps changing its name to match it). Sadly I need the Sonos app to fix things when they go a bit weird.

And there is Alexa, Google Home assistant, Menu Bar on the Mac, Lid on the Apple Watch and Spotify Connect that can be used to some extent. But still only a fairly small amount of functionality compared to the proper app.

Hi all, for those of us who have invested in Sonos, the potential of a significant regression in our ability to access the hardware we've paid for is really concerning.

I have been, and continue to be, careful in my language around this current issue. I know that AppleVis has faced similar dilemmas in the past when it comes to Apple OS updates that they believe might cause problems for a large number of people. When do you sound the alarm?

As I said in the blog post on my website and in Living Blindfully, I have not yet been able to test this app for myself, but I have no reason to doubt the tester who has firsthand experience of the new app and is overwhelmed by the regressions. I have also heard that others have had similar experiences, but I have not communicated with other testers directly.

I would normally want a bit more evidence of a problem before saying anything publicly, but The difficulty we have is that app updates are a one-way trip. If I say nothing, and people update to something that is at best a horrible user experience, there’s no way back, and who knows how long it will be before this new app is tolerable.

I’m fortunate to have a test device and I’ll install the new Sonos update on it as soon as I can. Also as soon as time permits, I’ll produce some audio demonstrating the differences in accessibility between the two apps. If it turns out that it isn’t as bad as all that, perhaps because Sonos made last-minute changes, then great. People can re-enable updates and enjoy the app like everyone else. But for many of us, Sonos is a big part of our lives. Some of us have Sonos devices in almost every room. If it breaks, it’s a big deal. So caution seems sensible.

If we’re dealing with a significant problem, and we’ll know if that’s the case soon enough, then clearly we need to contemplate a range of options to get this addressed.

I have already reached out to the journalist at the Verge who not only has a great track record of covering Sonos, he has deep connections into the company.

I’ve also had a Government regulatory body reach out to me, and advocacy organisations of the blind have already been in touch with the Sonos CEO.

What’s disappointing about this situation is that I know of several capable blind people who have beta tested Sonos in the past but, like me, did not know this new app was being worked on until the public announcement was made. So it seems a lot of people who would have been happy to help have not been able to.

We only have a couple more days, so let’s see what we’re dealing with and hopefully we can encourage Sonos to put this right quickly if that’s necessary.

Hi Manuel and all, I am sad to say that in this instance my trust and willingness to give them the benefit of the doubt till I have reason to do otherwise has not been aptly rewarded as others have mentioned. I'm glad others have taken the time to sound the alarm and warning bells to make us aware preemptively. Here's hoping advocacy efforts to impact this situation will be successful.

I think the story here is that it is support for products that serve the blind, IE audio. I also have an iPhone kicking about somewhere which I might load up with the app. I've only got a beam and a couple of back speakers but imagine if this meant we couldn't set up new products? As it stands, I rarely use the sonos app aside set up and true play. It was in need of a rethink as it was getting messy, I'm just very sad that the rethink appears to have locked us out. They are excellent airplay speakers but, there are cheaper ones just as good if the sonos system doesn't work for us.

Tuesday wil be interesting. Also, interesting that it is on the same day as apple have their press conference... Maybe the new sonos headphones are made in tandem with apple and we'll all be happy... Or something.

I have just updated the app and on early use I'd say its definitely not great in terms of accessibility. Only had a quick play but player controls very hard to find and use. Be interested to hear others thoughts but really hope improvements will be made. Love my Sonos but on first viewing the app is no longer easy to navigate, for me anyway.

I'd be interested to know if any parts are accessible. For example, can you browse Spotify playlists and access Settings?

With playback controls, volume, grouping and so on at least there are other ways.

Still not going to intentionally update the app but I am certain that it will happen accidentally at some point.

Hi everyone,

I updated my Sonos app on an old iPhone 8, just to see what we're dealing with. I'm having trouble finding the search bar, and it also keeps jumping me back up to the top of the home screen. Is anyone else having either of these issues, or is that phone just too old to handle it? Thanks!

I've just downloaded and will say, it's usable, as long as you are a flicker. It's certainly not pleasant, but I've encountered apps that are not usable.

A tip for any like me who's apple music or connected service has been deauthorised due to disuse, you have to delete it and add it in again.

All in all, it's pretty damn rubbish but I'd also say it doesn't quite kill sonos for blind users, it only makes it painful to use. Shame on you, Sonos, you big ambigram, you.

I can't seem to locate the search button and in terms of player controls I'm finding it a little tricky to select the speaker or/speaker group I want to play something on. When I select a book from Audible for example I just get a long list of chapters and I'm not quite sure how to then play that book to a certain speaker. I'd be interested to know how other people who have updated are using the app to select a radio station for example and then how they select where they want that to play.

J Mosen put a posto on mastodon regarding this and I think comments by someone from them regarding this. Good luck to all of you.

Found this on the Sonos community which suggests accessibility improvements are coming but I really wish it had been considered from the start a bit more. What is done is done now I guess I just really hope the app is improved in the coming months. https://en.community.sonos.com/controllers-and-music-services-228995/new-sonos-app-and-accessibility-6892068

This really is a shame. I love my Sonos stuff. If you're in the UK, there are laws that (as a last resort) we would be able to quote at sonos. But I hope it won't come to that. I remember Barclays did something similar with their app a few years ago, so too did Ocado, but they quickly updated it to sort things out. I hope those people with the right connections to tech websites etc. will bring about a positive result in pressing Sonos on this one. I like to think that when I wrote to applause Group in my professional capacity as a higher education lecturer, pointing out how the higher education industry would perceive their antics with voicedream, I played a small part in the changes they made. I hope I don't have to write to sonos in my capacity as a barrister.

I almost forgot about the web app. Well, let's be generous here and say on the Mac it is a big improvement over the previous controller. I can open it in Safari then share it to the Dock and now it's like it's own app.

But let me just be clear, the previous Mac app was not accessible at all. OK you could maybe play/pause and change the group volume. But that was it.

This time it feels like it isn't a million miles away from being usable.

So there's a heading for search, and another for Your Services. Unfortunately the services list is entirely made up of icons labelled "content service icon". However, I think they can be re-labelled with VO+/. And then they seem vaguely usable.

The rooms at the bottom could do with a heading to make it easier to get to them, and there's a lot of noise as I navigate about. But it might make sense with a bit of effort.

So it's hardly a masterpiece of accessible design but at least I have a chance of using it which is better than before.

Thank you so much for posting that. I feel a lot better now that they have committed to fixing it.

I tried to add a reply to the topic but half way through, VoiceOver stopped speaking out what I was doing and then I couldn't seem to get the text cursor back working again. The forums do seem a bit weird with VoiceOver - think the text editor might be in an iframe or something.

I did want to ask if they were so committed to accessibility that maybe they could have someone reply to the emails sent to their accessibility email address.

I thought it strange that they said we could still use the Mac controller whilst the web one is being fixed, but as I said earlier, the Mac one is totally inaccessible. (Well, OK I've not used it in a while so maybe they fixed it but I would be gobsmacked if that was the case.)

It's not a great experience, but it sort of works. It's odd that the search box is above the Search heading, but jumping to it using find edit box works fine.

When you start typing it gives a list of services. I'm not sure what this is. Are they maybe toggle buttons? It doesn't tell me if they are selected or not and pressing one doesn't appear to do much, although it may be affecting the results.

But it is possible to get to the results. However, each one has a More button (again a little odd to have this before anything else I can press). Not sure it does anything. Then next to it is our old friend "button". I think this just plays. At least it started playing where my wife was trying to work, much to her annoyance and my amusement.

It's a bit hard to know where it's going to play. I guess the rooms at the bottom of the screen. It's a bit of a faff to get down there, and it doesn't seem clear to me which room is actually selected.

Anyway not going to touch it again or I am going to get into trouble.

The other thing I noticed about the web app is that Settings are noticeably cut down from the phone app, as they were in the Mac controller. So sadly the web controller is not sufficient on its own to do everything you might need.,

I agree with all the sentiments expressed about Accessibility and usability being an afterthought from Sonos. At the same time I’m highly feeling relieved reading the announcement by the Sonos representative on the Sonos community page about the new app matching the excellent excellent ES2 Accessibility and usability, by the end of June. until then I have taken the two steps shared by Jonathan Mosen to not update and will be super grateful for you all to post about your first-hand experiences with any improvements on upcoming Version updates now through the end of June.

I have decided to update on my phone and try - so I won't update iPad.
Alarm clock settings by Sonos are not working; you see alarms as button but do not know which is on or off.
I might have a contact going to Sonos on June the 15th, but this app really needs a serious accessibility assessment - something that can't be done for free at least from my part. Devs must be made aware of what happens.
My sensation is that they used a so-called "all-in-one solution", those frameworks coming out of the box with few customizations but that are used to deploy one app for multiple platforms all at once and these tools are often not optimized for accessibility from the scratch.
It's evident it's no longer a native app but rather some kind of React, Xamarin or Flutter I really don't know!
If it's flutter it might work better in Android environments - who knows

Given that they have set the bar so low with their desktop app, I am happy to take anything as long as it works with a screen reader. I presume the Windows app was as bad as the Mac one but I never used it.

On the other hand, if the Mac app had worked properly then I am sure I would be quite upset with the idea of moving to a web app.

I've tended to use Angular rather than React myself but I presume they are much the same with regards accessibility. If so, there is absolutely no reason why the web app shouldn't be perfectly usable with a screen reader.

if this app were this way for sighted users there is no way it would've been released. We are treated as second class users. Its bull Sh*t

From what I'm hearing, it is exactly this way for sighted users. Missing features galore, errors, crashes. I'm not defending the poor accessibility, but honestly, it turns out accessibility is as far along as the rest of the app. None of it was ready for release.

Blind Sonos users have an important and rare opportunity to make our presence felt and our displeasure heard about the massive #accessibility regression in the new mobile apps.

Next Tuesday 14 May between 2 and 5 PM US Eastern time, three senior Sonos staff are conducting an “ask me anything” (AMA) session in the Sonos community. In attendance will be Diane Roberts, Senior Director of Software Development, Kate Wojogbe, Senior Director of User Experience, and Tucker Severson, Director of Product Management.
These are the key people in the company who agreed to the app being released in the inaccessible state it’s in, and they are the key people who need to take fixing it seriously.
Many people want to take some action that makes a difference. This is something you can do.
You can bookmark the page for the AMA. It is, https://en.community.sonos.com/events/sonos-app-redesign-ama-6

Try to become familiar with the forum before Tuesday, because while it isn’t completely inaccessible, it’s not the best and a little quirky. You should be able to sign in with your Sonos ID.
Perhaps compose your question thoughtfully ahead of time and have it on your computer, so you can paste it into the AMA when it goes live. It will not hurt for Sonos to understand how upset and inconvenienced many of us are by what they have done. We can do that firmly while remaining polite.
They need to understand, the best way to make us go away is to fix what they broke. We won’t be quiet until we get back what they took from us.
Happy contributing.

I can't make this myself but I hope a decent number of people can. Firm but polite is the best way, I imagine.

Another thought - does anyone living in the UK (or with contacts at the BBC) know anybody from the In Touch team? It's the sort of story that Radio 4 programme might think worth a feature spot. A niche audience but still, on a mainstream national radio channel. I used to know the producer but no longer - and in any case I am not the best person to interview about this as I have not updated, nor am I quite as embedded in the Sonos system as some of you.

Hi All,
In antipation of the update to the Sonos app on 7th May, I contacted the UK Sonos customer service telephone number to ask about the accessability of the app to blind and partially sighted people using Voice Over. The response I got when I phoned a couple of weeks ago was that I should not worry as the app would be totally accessible . I therefore asked if it would be safe to download the new version of the app as a blind Voice Over user and I would be able to control my Sonos system with the new app. The answer was a definate 'yes'. So, I waited and read the online forums such as this and the one from Sonos and decided to wait and still use the old version until I was sure that it worked correctly. I'm glad I did and guess this is a leson for a while just to ensure apps are accessible to VO! However, I'm also sure that I'll have to wait a while for the headphones as I won't buy them until I can use the new version of the app myself and add and use the headphones as well! Perhaps somthing Sonos should take note of as the disability pound or dollar in a lot of cases on this forum is a big and important one, even to Sonos!

All the best,

Dr Steve.

If you are owner and have your account, suggest you follow instruction of Mr. Mosen poste. Participate in the meeting and have your questions ready. Good luck. Hope all do so.

Hello everyone,

Unfortunately, I read the information too late and updated the app. I'm incredibly frustrated. All the issues you've mentioned are happening to me as well.

The focus jumps after navigating a few items on most screens. Once you enter a specific service, it's practically impossible to browse it as the focus keeps returning to the top. Screen exploration doesn't work, as VoiceOver only emits an empty sound. The labeling of buttons is incorrect. There are duplicates in the buttons in settings, etc. The player also has a lot of strange descriptions.

Getting to the player is very difficult because it's at the bottom. Screen exploration doesn't work, and the focus jumps around.

I don't know who allowed such a version of the app to be released. It's terrible that having such a nice app, it could be ruined so badly in the next update.

I also don't understand why, when releasing an app with such major changes, it isn't released as a separate version instead of an update. This way, there's no option to revert to the previous version.

I hope they will be able to make it usable again soon.

It does seem that there is a lot of negative feedback about this app beyond those of us needing accessibility. I'm presuming it was rushed out so it could have time to bed in before the big headphones announcement (which I think is next month).

I was glad to see that when the Verge reported on this they mentioned the accessibility issues and linked to Jonathan's blog post.

I'm not sure releasing a separate app would have been the right thing to do. This would be like admitting the new one is crap before anyone even has it. The problem is not considering accessibility up front and releasing an app that isn't really finished.

Anyway, we can't change what has happened and at least they have committed to fixing the issues. As long as they follow through with this then I will look back at this as a blip and nothing else. Unfortunately I think I will be unable to join in the session next week as I am on holiday but I hope some voices from here make it and I'll be interested to learn the response.

agree with the immediately preceeding comment. If you have a look on the sonos Facebook page, you'll see what people are saying about this app: in summary, it's landed catastrophically (unless, of course, this is all part of the plan and they're taking the hit now in anticipation of everyone's eternal grattitude when the app is updated and becomes usable). Reading the comments it's very clear that some of what we thought were accessibility bugs are just general cock-ups. Mind you, there are some good comments from blind people on there too.

I got an email from sonos last evening, crowing about the new app and urging me to stop whatever I was doing straightaway and get downloading! Well, it was something like that. I found the email, not to put too fine a point on it, sickening. Mayhaps not enough people are downloading it from their perspective? If that is indeed why they're doing this extra push on it, so much the better.

When I got my first Sonos product years and years back, I did so as a test. I wanted to know if it would work with VO, and was pleasantly surprised by how well it functioned straight out of the gate. I now have six Sonos products and use them all the time. Until now.

Sonos should be ashamed of this release. I've played about a bit with a Bluesound product and have found it to be quite accessible. Perhaps it's time to ditch my Sonos products and switch to Bluesound.

-- Howard

I was hoping the 3 Sonos reps would be speaking into a mike to respond to typed questions however ended up with such an inaccessible unusable typed chat only interface that just could not participate with my screen reader. Only useful thing I found on the AMA page was the link to their page on Sonos app update fix progress and the updates promised there through mid June the most recent post from Sonos 3 days ago seems so underwhelming and grossly inadequate from voiceover usage perspective on IOS.
https://en.community.sonos.com/controllers-and-music-services-228995/the-new-sonos-app-and-future-feature-updates-6892942

I was considering the headphones they are bringing out next month but, like many others I think I'll give them a pass. If their hardware has the same effort put into it as their software, I'm out.

an update shipped today. Did it fix anything?

The update just pushed after a quick poke around seemed just as broken as before. Maybe some specific things were fixed but I just poked around the main screen and closed the app out of frustration.

Many of you including me have not updated to the May 7 release. New Sonos speaker firmware update is available. Have you updated to the new firmware and if so are there any disruptions to iOS voiceover experience with the pre-May 7 Es2 app?

I have not. I would not put it past Sonos to require you to update the app before using the latest firmware.