Question about Braille displays

By Callum Stoneman, 8 September, 2013

Forum

Braille on Apple Products

I've recently got a braille sense on-hand, and it has an option to use it as a braille display for your Mac or iOS device. Now this sounds quite interesting to me, and this might sound a stupid question but what is the benefit of using a braille display? Before the comments start, I'm not saying it's a pointless function in any way, but the way I look at it at first it means carrying 1 more device around and surely it takes longer to read rather than listen? As I said these are just my first impressions of it so, what do you find are the benefits of using your braille display?

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Braille Advantages

First off, this should be apparent to most that this is going to be quite an objective question. A lot will depend on a user's comfort level and proficiency with Braille. And/or learning a new way to work with a device. That said... My views since you asked. The advantages of Braille: * Can read silently, which is great where speech is not appropriate, from anywhere from a meeting to a noisy restaurant environment where you can't hear it. * More accurate than speech output, especially for, in my experience, text messages where family and friends use many texting acronyms or typos that speech mangles, but looking at the braille you can figure it out. You can also read character by character with speech, but this is a case where Braille is much faster. * When using a braille display with a keyboard and an iOS device, it is a superior data input method to type on the braille keyboard to using the touchscreen keyboard. Faster, and again has the advantage of being able to use it when speech is not appropriate or difficult to use such as the noisy environment. * Again, personal preference. Some users prefer to read Braille, perhaps the content is more clear to them than if they hear it. Some users may not like the voice, or find the voice difficult to understand. Or not be able to hear it in the first place. The best, in my opinion, is to be able to have the option to use both, and then use speech or braille depending on the situation and preference of the moment. Yes, the biggest disadvantage at present, to use Braille with an iOS device, is you need an external display which adds another device to carry, and charge, and take care of. Until touchscreens get the ability to also provide tactile feedback I am afraid this is the price to pay for the other possible advantages. If you know Braille or are willing to learn, and have access to a braille display, I encourage you to try it and see for yourself what you like and don't like. At first you will definitely tend towards speech if that is what you are familiar with using. So I encourage you to choose a day, or a week if you can, and say: ok for this time period I am going to turn speech off and see how it goes. With this experience you can then decide what works the best for you.

Can I just say that I totally agree :-) ?

Hello ...

Sorry for responding to such an old post :-) , but I just want to say that I agree 100% with what you said there. You provided a comprehensive summary of the advantages of braille :-) . When I only listen but don't read, I always feel 'things are not quite visible to me'.
But can I add one thing? When you have a small, portable braille display like the Refresherbraille, the 'price to pay' is insignificant, since it's so light you don't really notice that you're carrying two devices. Don't you agree? And if it were possible to use the braille display to 'wake up' the iOS device from its standby mode, one wouldn't have to touch it, and could almost 'forget' that it's there :-) , since one could then do everything using only the display.
So if anyone here wants this to be changed, please e-mail accessibility@apple.com . I've done that already of course, and I hope others will too, so that Apple will do something about it, and 'make our lives easier'. It could be changed easily, so I'm continuing my 'campaign'.
Please join me :-) !

Just talked to a couple representative.

It was a person from the Apple excessive accessibility group. They told me that it is theoretically possible to have April displaying send a wake up or unlock command to a phone. It has not been done before by the braille display manufacturers but it could be done. They would just have to integrated into their system. This is what he said.

Thanks so much for replying!

Thanks so much for replying!
And thank you so much for your effort! You have actually talked to someone from Apple about this! That is great! Thank you so much!
So this would mean that it's not 'the fault' of Apple, but 'the fault' of the manufacturers of the braille displays. It works with bluetooth keyboards, so why not with braille displays? It's not fair! Why can you 'wake up' an iOS device with a keyboard, but not with a braille display?
I've actually written to APH (the manufacturer of a display I have) as well because I wasn't sure if it was something they could fix. So shall we continue to raise this point with the manufacturers of our braille displays? If it is 'their fault', I don't understand why ALL of them haven't fixed this! No braille display can be used to 'wake up' any iOS device from its standby mode, and that just isn't fair! Don't you all agree?
So who/what should be 'the focus of our campagne' :) ? Apple or the manufacturers of our displays or both?

I think.

We should phocus on both that way we can get more info on apple and on howthey work and how the braille display companies work.
I haven't bought a braille display yet but intend to do so quite soon.

Yes, I'd certainly 'recommend

Yes, I'd certainly 'recommend' you to buy a braille display, though they are expensive (but of course usually one can get help from some government institution or something). I always feel things are 'not quite visible' to me when I don't read but only listen. And when one can read, one can also check what one has written much better/faster and so on, and one doesn't always have to listen to the speech.
Especially when you have a small, portable braille display like the Refresherbraille, it would be so much easier if you could use it to 'wake up' the iOS device instead of having to press the Home button or something. Don't you all agree?

deleting music from itunes library using braille display

I would like to delete sGs using my braille display paired with my Irhone 5 S. After opening music, I find the song to delete, but how do Actually delete it?

In reply to everyone

I did try out the braille display a few times, but because the braille sense is used for school I can't really use it that much. I can see the uses of it though and its a lot easier and quicker than I thought it would be!

To the person who asked how to delete music, what you'll need to do is find the song you're looking for, press dot 6 and space together and the word delete should flash up on the braille display and the device should say it if speech is on, then just press whatever the command is for double tap is on your display.

sorry, but apple needs to change something before the manufactur

Unfortunately, the manufacturers can't change anything until the connection is maintained. If you look at the braille display, it will disconnect and show the startup or terminal message when the phone locks. As far as I know, this is the result of Bluetooth being disconnected on the screen lock, which is apple's deal. I will attempt to simulate this environment with a virtual device I will write to see if this hypothesis tests out. So far, I think we should direct our idea to apple.

Great for the professional environment

Perhaps there is a certain degree of recapitulation of what has gone before, but please indulge me a little here: the wonderful (and I truly mean wonderful) thing about having the Braille display hooked up to the iPhone is that you can read books in Braille very easily indeed. it's a matter of downloading a Kindle title, or an iBooks title if you prefer, and reading it almost as if it were a Braille paper title. True, you can do that on your PC too, but you can't very well take your PC on the London Underground; there just isn't room. That's a feature which makes carrying the extra device around worth it, for as long as I need to. In addition, the text entry capabilities are significantly increased by a Braille device. Your disadvantage is of course the relatively prohibitive cost of even the cheapest of Braille displays, but it's worth saving up for if you are able.

One more thought

I have an Apex, not an on-hand, but if you are anything like me your on-hand will become a pretty indispensable part of your kit for a large number of trips. So really, if you're going to take it with you anyway, the carrying it around issue don't signify.

Yes, that would seem logical ...

Hello ...
Thanks so much for replying, for all your effort, for responding so positively to my idea, and everything!

I do think you're right. If it were something the manufacturers of the braille displays could fix, then why does the same not happen with bluetooth keyboards? So yes, I do think it is Apple that needs to fix this. Your 'hypothesis' makes a lot of sense! I'd be very surprised if you were wrong. You clearly know much more about these things than me :-) .
Another reason why I can't really imagine that it's something the manufacturers of the displays could fix, is that when I talked to people from the company that makes one display I have, they thought there would be some command or something. They clearly knew nothing about this, they weren't dishonest or anything, they just had no idea this isn't working. And since it's exactly the same with all braille displays, the likelihood is high :-) that it's Apple that's 'at fault' here, not the manufacturers.
So I'm hoping that all who want to be able to fully control their iPhone with their display will write to accessibility@apple.com . I'll send them another e-mail today.

And yes, the combination iPhone + braille display is great for working, reading, to take on holiday, to use on the underground/public transport/noisy environments, and it's definitely worth carrying the display around (at least if it's small/portable enough). But (sorry for repeating this over and over :-) ) it would be even better if we could use the display to 'wake up' the iPhone when the Screen is locked, instead of always having to press the Home button or something. Don't you all agree? So let's (continue to) ask Apple to PLEASE fix this!

Thanks for replying, and thanks so much for supporting my 'campagn' :-) !

I'm not sure I agree with you on this last point

I actually quite like the fact that, when the iPhone locks, the display disengages from it. It's very quick and easy, particularly when you have to get off the train in a hurry. I don't see how you could wake up the iPhone using a braille display if the display was not connected, and of course when the iPhone locks it becomes disconnected. To be honest, it's not one of these issues as I'm particularly bothered about. I'm not bothered enough to rights to Apple accessibility I'm afraid.

Trying to convince you :-) ...

I thought I had posted this, but now I don't see it :-) . So sorry if I posted this twice ..

Well, as you of course know, this works with Bluetooth keyboards: When a keyboard is paired with an iPhone and the phone locks, one can 'wake it up' by pressing some keys on the keyboard. And the same should be possible with braille displays: When a display is paired with the phone, one should be able to 'wake up' the phone by pressing some keys (for example dots 1, 2, 5 + Space to activate the Home button). One could then unlock the screen with the display, and wouldn't always have to reach for the phone just the press the Hoem button when the screen is locked.

The main reason why I think this would be so much better (and really is worth writing Apple a quick e-mail about) is exactly that: It would actually be quicker and less 'complicated'.
So for example, when one is in the bus/train/underground and realises one has to get off at the next stop, instead of reaching for the phone, locking it and putting the display and the phone safely in one's pocket/bag/purse, one could just switch off the display, so no keys would be pressed accidentally. And when one wants to control the phone, one could simply take out the display, without having to reach for the phone, take it out of the pocket/bag or anything.
Does that make more sense now? I do hope so!

(And sorry for that rather silly username :-) . And apologies for any possible typos/errors! Clearly, English isn't my native tongue :-) .)

A strong argument

A Woman, I'm afraid you flatter me by assuming too high a level of knowledge of bluetooth keyboards on my part! I now know that what you say is correct and you have convinced me that it could and probably should be achievable. I'm probably not excited enough to write to apple about this though. I think there are more pressing Braille issues e.g. the back translation problems.

Ideal :-) ...

Wow, I'm surprised that I convinced you so easily :-) .
It may sound ridiculous, but, as far as I'm concerned, this is quite a 'pressing' braille issue, especially because it should be relatively easy to fix, but would make a big difference to us. If it does get fixed, you will see how much more convenient it is that you don't have to 'search' for the phone just to press the Home button :-) .
I must say I'm quite satisfied with the 'result' when I pair a display with the phone. But (unfortunately) I read only uncontracted braille, and from what I can tell, there are 'less issues' with that than with contracted braille.
But I should say clearly: If you want to get Apple to take note of a certain issue, I expect you would let us know exactly what it is, and I would of course write them about it too. After all, we are so few, so we should support each other when we want to bring something to the attention of Apple. Is that not so :-) ?

Thanks for replying (and for being convinced so easily :-) . And sorry for that silly username, I just don't like giving myself some 'fancy' name, and I don't really want to give my real name either :-) .)

I've emailed Apple

Hi everyone,

As I said before, I don't use the braille display function because the braille sense was only for school and I can't afford one of my own, but I've still emailed Apple about why braille displays can't wake up the iOS device from the standby mode. It doesn't sound like such a big deal to me, but if others think it is, the more people that get in touch the better.
I think the reason it works with bluetooth keyboards but not braille displays might have something to do with braille displays having to display whatever VO is saying. Bluetooth keyboards are only used to control the device, whereas braille displays control and show the content. Maybe when it is connected to something that displays whatever VO is reading means that it can't go into standby mode for some reason, therefore it would mean the display is draining the battery.
I could be completely wrong, but this is just what I thought.

I want to give you an AWARD :-) ...

I want to give you an award for e-mailing them :-) ! Ideal :-) !

I do understand why it doesn't seem important. And yes, it is a small thing, but it would make a big difference to us if it was fixed. I'm sure about that.

Yes you may well be right. Who knows :-) ? I've no idea if the reason is that the phone disconnects from the display when the screen is locked, if braille displays don't work in the same way as keyboards (as you're guessing), or whatever :-) . But I cannot imagine that it would be difficult/technically impossible for Apple to fix it. And it's great that you e-mailed them, even though you think it's not a big deal. Thanks so much.
Please accept your award :-) .

Certainly more important issues

While I agree that it would be nice to be able to unlock the screen with a braille display, we have a few more pressing concerns. One of them is having a keyboard equivalent to the double tap with 2 fingers gesture. More and more apps are using this for specific VO functions, Apple has actively pushed this in their accessibility guidelines to developers, yet no braille command. Also, double tap and hold has a bt keyboard equivalent, but not one in braille. Further, I see no reason why turning pages automatically while panning can not be implemented. The only app this can be achieved on at present is the BARD Mobile app. Do I agree it would be nice? Sure. But I think there are some more important things that need to be addressed first. This is just my opinion, nothing else. Thanks for reading.

Yes, you are right, I agree ...

Hello ...

Thanks for joining this discussion :-) .

I certainly didn't intend to make it sound as if I believe this was 'the most important' or 'the only' braille-related issue! Of course that is not what I think! I hadn't really found any posts mentioning this though, so I registered to start 'campaigning here.

All the things you mentioned are of course extremely important! I agree 100%! Another important issue, for example, is that in some apps (I've found this only in the Message app when you open a video or recording that you sent), there are windows one cannot 'reach' using only a display, one has to tap the screen to get there.
I'd say being able to 'activate' the phone with a display when the screen is locked is about 'on the same level of importance' as turning pages automatically while panning (which I wish was possible with iBooks). Both may seem unimportant, small issues, but I think it would make a lot of difference to us if they were fixed.

So, I'd say the fact that there are more important issues doesn't mean that this is not important. So I think we are both right :-) . Our views are not 'mutually exclusive' :-) . Perhaps we can agree on that?

using a Braille display with iOS

I have not been using a Braille display with my iOS devices for very long, and there is still much more I can learn on the topic. Thus far though, my opinion is that I enjoy reading on the Braille display, but entering text from the Braille keyboard on my display does not work as I hoped it would. I am using the Braille Pen 12T and I have to say that typing on my Apex in KeySoft applications is a much smoother experience. I will hopefully be getting the new Vario Ultra soon, so hopefully it will work better with a different device.