At a time when audiobooks are becoming increasingly popular, people are discovering the convenience of being able to listen to their favorite stories or academic texts while on the go. But for many blind individuals, audiobooks are not just a convenience—they are an integral part of life. Through decades of experience, blind people have learned to appreciate and engage with audiobooks in ways that sighted people are only just beginning to discover.
A World of Sound: The Blind Experience with Audiobooks
For blind people, audiobooks have long been the gateway to accessing information, entertainment, and education. Whether it’s a fictional story or a dense philosophy textbook, the audio format allows the visually impaired to experience books in a way that would otherwise be difficult or impossible. But there's more to it than simply being able to access content. The relationship between a listener and an audiobook is deeply shaped by how the book is delivered—whether through a neutral text-to-speech (TTS) system or a professional narrator who brings a story to life.
In essence, blind people are experts in the audiobook experience. They’ve spent years fine-tuning how they listen, how they engage with content, and how the voices they hear shape their interaction with what’s being read. These insights offer valuable lessons for everyone else, especially as audiobooks become a mainstream form of media consumption.
The Role of Narration: It’s More Than Just Sound
One of the most significant distinctions that blind individuals can teach others is the critical role that narration plays in the audiobook experience. This isn't just about having a voice read aloud, but rather how the voice affects the listener's emotional and intellectual engagement.
Take, for example, the difference between listening to a professionally narrated audiobook versus using a TTS system to read academic material. In one case, you're experiencing an artistic performance that enhances the material. In the other, the voice is simply a tool for delivering content in a functional way.
Recently I was listening to two very different types of audio content: a university philosophy textbook and The Road to Roswell by Connie Willis, a humorous fiction book. The philosophy textbook was being read to me by ElevenReader, a high-quality TTS app, while the novel was professionally narrated by Jesse Vilinsky. The experiences couldn't have been more different.
ElevenReader’s TTS voice was exceptional for its clarity and precision. It was neutral, designed to communicate information without adding emotional nuance. This made it perfect for academic reading, where the goal was to focus on absorbing complex ideas. Even though I appreciated the high quality of the voice, it didn’t change how I felt about the material itself. The focus remained on the content, not the delivery.
In contrast, Jesse Vilinsky’s performance of The Road to Roswell transformed the story into something much more engaging. The novel pokes fun at UFO enthusiasts and brides-to-be, and Vilinsky's playful narration heightened the humor and made the characters come alive. Her tone, pacing, and inflection shaped my emotional response to the story in ways that simply listening to the text wouldn’t have done. The performance became an essential part of how I experienced and enjoyed the book.
Narration as Performance: Why It Matters
This difference between neutral narration and professional performance is something blind people have long been attuned to. When listening to audiobooks, the quality of the narration can make or break the experience. A narrator who understands the tone of the book, who can bring characters to life, or who knows how to convey the subtleties of humor or suspense, makes a significant impact. Blind individuals, who rely heavily on auditory information, are particularly sensitive to these nuances.
In fact, many blind audiobook listeners develop preferences for certain narrators. They know which voices to seek out and which to avoid, much like sighted readers might follow their favorite authors. A narrator isn’t just reading words off a page; they’re offering an interpretation that can add depth, emotion, and texture to the text.
For sighted people, who are used to engaging with the visual format of books, this level of reliance on a narrator’s performance might be a newer concept. But as audiobooks become a more prevalent part of popular culture, everyone can benefit from learning what blind listeners have long understood: narration matters, and it’s not just the words that count—it’s how they’re spoken.
Workflow Differences: Learning vs. Leisure
Another critical lesson that blind audiobook users can share is the difference in how audiobooks are used depending on the context. When listening to an academic textbook, the goal is often different from listening to a novel for entertainment. Blind individuals often make use of both TTS systems and professionally narrated audiobooks, depending on the purpose.
When I was listening to my philosophy textbook, I needed efficiency. ElevenReader provided that—it allowed me to navigate through the material quickly and with focus. The voice didn’t need to engage me emotionally; it simply needed to deliver the facts so I could absorb them. This is in stark contrast to how I approached The Road to Roswell, where the leisurely pace and humor required a different kind of listening. There, the voice of the narrator enhanced the enjoyment of the experience.
This distinction between workflow and leisure is something sighted people might not always consider. For many, listening to audiobooks is purely a recreational activity, often something to do while multitasking. But for blind listeners, it’s not just about entertainment—listening is a method of absorbing all types of content, from academic to creative.
The Future of Audiobooks: Learning from Blind Listeners
As audiobooks continue to rise in popularity, the world can learn much from blind people’s deep and varied experience with this format. Blind individuals have long been at the forefront of recognizing the power of narration, understanding how different voices and delivery methods affect engagement with the material, and tailoring their listening experiences based on their needs—whether for education or entertainment.
For everyone else, this means becoming more aware of the art of audiobook narration. Instead of passively consuming spoken text, listeners can begin to appreciate how narration changes their relationship to the material. Should a textbook be delivered in a monotone? Maybe, if the goal is just to retain information. But should a novel be given the same treatment? Absolutely not—blind audiobook listeners already know the answer to that.
Ultimately, the power of the audiobook lies not just in the words, but in the voices that bring them to life. As the world of audiobooks expands, it’s time for everyone to tune into what blind people have known for decades: listening is an art form, and the right voice can make all the difference.
Comments
As a voice actor
"I’ve had the privilege of witnessing firsthand how much a performance can elevate an audiobook experience. Narrating isn’t just about reading words; it’s about creating an emotional connection between the listener and the material. Blind listeners have always understood this more deeply than most because they rely so heavily on auditory experiences. They can immediately tell when a narrator breathes life into characters or when tone and pacing transform a scene from flat to unforgettable. Audiobooks are storytelling, and as voice actors, we have the power to immerse listeners in worlds, evoke emotions, and make each book a unique, lived experience."
Very Well Said
I couldn't agree more. I've been a registered NLS patron here in the US since the mid-80s, and have seen them evolve and grow over time. It'd be interesting to find out the exact number of books/magazines I've read in total via audio. I'm currently reading Anthony Doerr's novel entitled "All the Light We Cannot See" and really enjoying it. Ironically enough, this one features a young girl who is losing her vision so I can sort of relate to her. I've been blind since birth, but we both read Braille. The narrator of this one is Jill Fox, and she definitely did the book justice. I don't think I've ever come across an NLS narrator I didn't like, and this is true of their commercial narrators whom I've heard. I've only heard a few of those, but even recently-retired Coach K did a nice job narrating his own book! I'm curious to know if the Scourby awards are still being given out.
Unblind People
I'm not a fast braille reader, for what ever reason, and tend to use audio much more. I like reading books on a computer with a screen reader because I can look at the spellings of words and also navigate the structure of the writing.
Back when I was among the unblind, I ended up in a lot of remedial classes in school. Reading print wasn't really an issue for me, but because there were also students with dyslexia and other reading issues crammed into the same low-budget, remedial classes, we listened to a lot of audio-type books and instructions, sometimes on actual vinyl records. It wasn't a big transition for me.
I Read/Write Braille Too
I learned EBAE at a young age, and currently own one of the NLS HumanWare eReaders. I've used it a bit and like it. So there's definitely a time and place for Braille. I certainly agree about being able to see how names are spelled, as well as getting a feel for the writing layout.
couldn't agree more with you…
couldn't agree more with you on this!
loved reading this
This is not a blind thing.
There's a huge amount of talk on r/audiobooks, r/audiodramas and so on.
Yes I like accents, yes I will listen to a book with people that are very good at accents/voices but I don't feel this is a blind thing at all, it's just a me thing.
I think you're giving us a bit to much credit here, yes we have good hearing but we're not the be all and end all when it comes to audiobooks.
Having said that, perhaps I'm a bit more of a snob than I think, I did grow up on the BBC radio 4 plays, after all.
I'll tel you something, I'm not a fan of the archers, mainly because I can't start from ep 1, but when i do listen, oh the acting is amazing! The accents, the music, the sound effects, they're amazing!
I'll stop or I could go on about sounds and soundscapes for a while :)
I have 2 things to say...
Sound Booth Theater.
&
Graphic Audio.
Thank you for listening. 🙇
OK, I am giving up on trying to understand people!
Brad is an Archers Nut. I would not have guessed that for all the T in India!
Stephen Fry reading Harry Potter
Subject says it. I first tried reading Harry Potter in braille and didn't like it, and then I heard Stephen Fry reading the Philosopher's Stone on radio 4 on boxing day 1998 I think it was and was hooked. I ended up reading the whole series read by Stephen Fry in the end. I'm really fussy with narrators though, and I mostly read books on Kindle. I use the Daniel voice on my iPhone, and Eloquence on Windows, even for most fiction. I've never read Game of Thrones and probably never will because of the absolutely awful narrator. How anybody can sit through that is beyond me. I grabbed the Kindle version but just don't fancy it. I'm not much of a fantasy reader anyway. I'm more of a crime and thrillers kind of person.
Can you mix formats? I can't...
If I start a series on Kindle I have to finish it on Kindle. Same for Audible books to. Once I pop I can't stop.
I don't know why, but it just spoils the entire thing!
yes I can
I read the Seven sisters series by Lucinda Riley on Audible, each book has a different narrator because each book focuses on a different character. Most narrators are fantastic, but when you get to book 7 I think it is, one of the narrators is just awful, so I switched to Kindle for that one, then went back to Audible for book eight. So yes, I can switch formats if I need to. The problem I mostly have with audiobooks is that they're too slow, and I don't like listening to human voices sped up, it gives me the creeps. I finish a book a lot quicker on Kindle than I do on Audible. I have my speech rate at sixty percent for that, like I do for most things. The quality of the narrator can make or break an audiobook. Sighted people feel it too. I've seen plenty of negative reviews on Audible for certain books because of the narrator or narrators.
Adapting
I agree with this post. I think as we have always had to listen we do pick up more. The really interesting thing is it isn't specific to us. Me and my sighted partner listen to audio books and when we first started she wasn't fussed about who or how the narration was presented. Now, she is as fussy as me. Indeed, for those who may remember Stephen Pacey read all the department Q books. Then a new narrator did book 6 and the chaos that caused was madness. In the end a couple of years later Audible or whomever got him to read book 6 as anyone else reading the books just didn't work.
Oh god...
Look, ok,? I've just got to know what happens to archer woman number 7, who is going through a divorce, then there's number 5, she's running a bakery, will it work, who knows...
And ok, I won't deny, the theme tune is very... I dunno,, you know it's the archers though once you hear it. Or at least a lot of UK people will.
Now I'm off to settle in a little village somewhere and have homemade butter and stuff like that.
For anyone wondering, here's the theme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNEawM6vZf4
I won't deny, the voice acting is good, bbc always have the best of the best when it comes to voice actors, but nah, i'm not a fan, if it's on I'll listen to it but honestly, i've not sat down and truely listened to radio for years.
Oh the good old days, when you'd get a tape in the mail and would pop it in your tape player, or the huge bulky tape player from the RNIB that played masiv video tape like cassettes.
OH, those were the days my children, those were the days.
Swapped Narrators/accents
Ya, I remember I had some "James Herriot" books, commercially narrated on tape for the unblind, back in the 80s. They might still be around here somewhere. All but one book were narrated by an English sounding guy, and, they had a guy with an Irish accent on that one book, which happened to be the last one I listened to. It was a shock to my system, and just didn't feel right. It could have been the other way around in accents with the same effect. I don't seem to have that issue when I computer-read a book, and switch between Espeak on Linux and Samantha on my iPhone.
Recently, I switched from reading Daisy format computer books to Epub, either format in my web browser on my main system. I haven't bothered to look for an Epub thing for the web browser, so I just extract all the files and read them, makeshift, one chapter per file. You get used to doing makeshift if you use Linux. I kind of like having the abrupt stop for each chapter, instead of continuous reading. Kind of the feeling of the blank page between chapters in a paper book.
Audiobooks
I love audiobooks for sure, but, sometimes, it's too slow for me. I can finish more books on Kindle, then I can with audio. Plus, e-books are generally easier to get than audiobooks, at least, ones that are professionally narrated. If you know, you know. I use the Samantha default voice on my phone, and it works well enough for me. I don't like over the top accents, or too much emotion, where someone is reading the book, and it just goes over the top. I feel like it doesn't work, so, yeah. Besides, Kindle unlimited is cheaper than audible, and you're able to switch between both formats. Audible is more expensive, and not every book has an audio version.
I wish there was a way to pay for the Amazon Kindle unlimited program without needing to add a card on file. I reached out to them to ask if they would consider implementing a policy where we can pay for a set amount of time, for example, two months, for a $30 Amazon gift card. I even told them that, if refunding was an issue, they could say that there's no refund if you use a gift card, or give you back half of what you spent. So, you would get back a $15 Amazon gift card, if something goes wrong. I just can't afford to pay for the program every month. US$12 is about $1200 for me. I've been competing in the Microsoft rewards program for free, even though it's slow to try to earn an Amazon gift card at the end of the year. The only thing I can do now is to try to get enough points for even a $15 Amazon gift card. If there are any sales around the holiday, I might be able to buy four or five books, with the gift card balance, depending on the prices. Other services like Netflix allow you to pay month by month when you have a gift card. I don't know why they can't do the same thing here. From what I understand, you can pay with your gift card, but you need to have a card on file. That makes no sense. I told them that if they did not want to include paying for Amazon gift cards, alone, on the subscription based plans, to give us prepaid plans. Just like I said above,
& Graphic Audio
Have all the justice league stories. Flash, batman, wonder woman, superman green lantern. Also listened to books done by AI and do not care, humans are not replaceable in audiobooks.
@Brian
Actually there are three things and Jeff Hayes is the third.
Dungeon crawler Carl could also be the fourth.
Correction
Jeff Hays is God. Right next to Chuck Norris. . . and Batman!
Interesting BookShare snipip
I just saw a Toot that said they (BS) are using "Talking EBook."
Re: Interesting BookShare snipip
Is "Talking EBook" a brand or format? I've seen quite a few human narrated books listed, but I've never tried one. They also generate computer narrated versions of the books, I think in MP3 format. I guess either would be usable on the NLS book players we have over here if you copied them to a USB flash drive.
I don't know, people were being silly about it!
It could be a good name for books read by AI/TTS though?
The second part of this article was going to be a discussion of what to call AI-narrated EBooks, given that I was arguing they are different..
talking EBook is as good as anything I've heard.
Talking AI eBooks
That could get a little weird. Like having different AI voices for each character, and injecting AI-interpreted drama into the performance. Then you have to get silly in the discussion with not liking the AI voice they used for such and such character, or how one of them sounded fake or too dramatic etc...
I think they were probably just referring to their computer generated audio books.
Maybe, but to be serious...
What really gets my goat is the likes of Apple charging the same price for an AI-narrated audio book as one read by a human. I'm OK with AI reading some books, but it costs over 90% less to produce, so should cost 90% less.
AI Audiobooks
I've been thinking a lot about audiobooks lately. I try to get them whenever possible. Sure, not every narrator is perfect - whether they're human or AI - but that's just personal preference, right? What really matters to me is that people are listening and absorbing information. Stories have been shared audibly through word-of-mouth, around campfires, ever since the beginning of time. I'm happy when folks are engaging with them, regardless of the medium. I know the system needs improvement, but I work with what's available. It's funny how people are quick to point out what doesn't work, but you don't hear as many suggestions for solutions. Like, where are all these people with "better voices"? Have they volunteered their talent, or are they just complaining for the sake of it? Look, AI is going to be everywhere whether we like it or not. We need to make peace with that fact. If humans can't step up, they'll eventually create AI that's better at being human than we are. OK, I totally scared myself with this thought, but, if you're losing your job to a program, it most likely wasn't your job in the first place. Some of the people complaining would've never gotten these jobs, and it's not because of the Secondary competition on the market. There are many authors out there who would love to share their stories, but they simply can't afford to produce an audiobook. Some of them have recorded their own books, but, again, sometimes due to the limitations of book platforms, like, Amazon, for example, they can't share their work as freely as they would like to. Yes, they need to make their money to survive, but many simply want to share their work on YouTube without all the restrictions. My point is, I support giving people options and control over their work. If that means being able to produce an audiobook with the tools they have available, once they're not hurting others, then more power to them. You can listen, or not. Capitalism, greed, and inflation are some of the massive problems Plaguing our world. I think people often make life harder than it needs to be. Personally, I can't wait for the day when I can just interact with AI and get stuff done without all the hassle. This might be a bit off-topic, but the other day I saw a post where someone said people want self-driving cars because they're lazy. I couldn't help but think, "Wow, I hope this person never goes blind." I wonder if they'd still have the same attitude if they couldn't drive themselves. It's sad, but that's reality. Anyway, don't come for me, this is just my opinion and I'm one stranger on the Internet, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. Happy reading, everyone!​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​
Virtual voice
I said this in another thread, but Audible has this new thing with books being narrated by TTS/AI, called “virtual voice”. The nice thing about this, is that you can get a lot of these “audio” books for free.
To give an idea, here’s a sample of a book from the author Bianca D’arc titled, “Loaded for Bear”. The link below will allow you to sample the title and check out what virtual voice is like. You can also increase or decrease speed rate. Enjoy!
https://www.audible.com/pd/Loaded-for-Bear-Audiobook/B0DJH8QXB6
Excellent Post
This discussion about audiobooks got me thinking about their value anew. As an exhibit, I'd suggest The Diving Bell and the Butterfly. The author recalls what happened to him after a massive stroke and relates how he feels about it. It's a bit strange, but I think that's its attraction.
But the voice talent steals the show. René Auberjonois gives the narration a light French flavor that I don't think AI could replicate with any kind of nuance.
Star Trek fans might check out The Autobiography of Cathrine Janeway. Who better to narrate this than Kate Mulgrew, the actress who inhabits that chatacter. That book isn't in the National Library Service program here in the US, but it's offered on the commercial audiobook sites. It's just that good.
Finally, I bring up Star Trek Voyager, Pathways. Robert Picardo's warm and intimate narration brings this one alive. I sense he truly cares about the text. Sure, he played the AI on Voyager, but with this book, he brings his skills and training as an actor to the table. Using his understanding of the text, along with knowledge of the language and his own intelligence, he makes the text come alive. I feel engaged.
I shared this book with a friend who heard some of the AI narrated audiobooks and felt they sounded fake. This one doesn't.
I know that many outside the blindness community feel that listening to an audiobook isn't reading. I disagree. To me, you're comprehending the story and engaging with it. It's much different than watching a TV show or movie, since you get to use your imagination. You still make connections, can infer things not stated in the story, and you're actively involved.
True, we can't ignore AI and we do need to recognize its strengths and weaknesses. But I also believe those outside of the blindness community can learn what we know about the value of well-narrated audio books. Thanks.
@Tina
You write, "I know that many outside the blindness community feel that listening to an audiobook isn't reading."
There are a few inside the blindness community who think all reading should be done in braille, and that audio information causes people to fall asleep, or so I've been told...
I read braille, but not anywhere as fast as I can read with audio, and not as tirelessly. It takes about a day for me to read an interesting novel on my computer with a screen reader, and sighted people are like, "what!?"
I asked a resource teacher in high school if someone who mainly or even exclusively read with audio information, like with the screen readers or taped books, was considered illiterate. I was told comprehensive reading with audio material, if one has a disability, was considered a reading skill, so wouldn't fall in that category.
Yeh OB, I saw that to
It is a very dangerous position to take. This has been a slur based in ableism for years. Seeing someone who others say is a 'leader' in the Blind Community pushing this position is so very 2024!
Is it blind community or braille community? why would anyone want to divide us?
How long before we have Blind with a capital B as a ting?
If listening isn't reading, then audio books aren't book. Maybe we should call them podcasts?
Reading WITHOUT Sight: Challenging Ableist Assumptions
In today’s world, where accessibility is supposedly ever-expanding, comments on how blind people read – or rather, whether we “really” read – reveal a significant amount of latent ableism. When someone remarks, “You’re not really reading because you have to listen to it,” they are unwittingly touching on deep-seated biases that marginalize blind people and our experience. For me, as a blind person, these comments feel aggressive, like a slur that undermines not only my intellect but my very existence within a literate society. The underlying suggestion that my method of consuming literature is somehow less legitimate than traditional reading reflects a lack of understanding and a failure to appreciate the richness of alternative literacy.
At its core, this statement implies that visual reading is the only valid form of reading – an attitude deeply rooted in ableist assumptions. Just as the sighted world learns and adapts to new ways of accessing information, blind people, too, use technology to bridge gaps that were once insurmountable. By suggesting that listening to an audiobook or using a screen reader is inferior to reading with one’s eyes, the speaker perpetuates a narrow view of literacy that excludes anyone who does not fit their narrow definition of a reader.
The Emotional Impact of Dismissive Comments
Hearing such remarks can be hurtful. When someone tells me I’m not “really reading,” they trivialize the effort, love, and passion I pour into every book. Reading, in any form, is more than just a mechanical process; it’s an engagement with ideas, narratives, and emotions. Denying my capacity to “really” read is akin to erasing my agency in choosing to explore literature. It dismisses my experience and can feel like a personal attack, minimizing my intelligence and curiosity.
Moreover, these comments strip away the nuances of my identity and life experience as a blind person. They ignore the reality that many of us navigate systems not designed with us in mind, yet we adapt with resilience and creativity. Listening to a book, for me, is as much an engagement with its content as sighted reading is for others. This medium allows me to dive into narratives, to imagine worlds, and to connect with characters just as vividly as if I were reading visually. Such a remark does not just invalidate my experience, but it also points to a societal failure to recognize and celebrate the diverse ways people interact with literature.
Understanding the Roots of Ableism
Ableism, at its core, stems from a belief that certain abilities, like sight, are inherently superior. This mindset manifests in the way sighted people sometimes view adaptations like screen readers or braille as substitutes, rather than as equally valid methods of accessing information. This thought pattern diminishes the lived experiences of blind individuals and subtly implies that we’re only half-participating in the world of literature. The comment reflects an ideology that upholds one mode of experiencing the world as ideal, while relegating others to second-class status.
Furthermore, literacy is a concept that should not be defined by sensory modality. Whether through braille, audio, or screen readers, blind readers engage in the same cognitive processes of understanding and analying text. These methods are not merely compensatory but rather alternate pathways that lead to the same destination.
Responding Constructively
Addressing this kind of ableism requires a blend of assertiveness and education. In responding to these comments, I could say something like, “When you suggest that I’m not really reading, it feels as if you’re diminishing my engagement with the text. For me, listening to a book offers the same intellectual and emotional journey as sighted reading does for you. It’s not about the method; it’s about the experience of connecting with the material. I’d appreciate it if we could acknowledge that there are many valid ways to be a reader.”
By framing the response in this way, I affirm my own experience while gently inviting the person to reconsider their assumptions. Another approach could be to highlight the diversity of literacy methods available today: “There’s a wide range of ways people can read now, whether through audio, braille, or text-to-speech technology. These methods open up the world of literature to more people and should be celebrated rather than diminished.”
My hope is that, in responding to these comments, I can foster a moment of reflection for others. Reading is about engaging with ideas and stories, not about the medium through which we access them. Ableist remarks about non-visual reading, though sometimes spoken thoughtlessly, present an opportunity to open minds and broaden perspectives. By sharing my experience, I contribute to a more inclusive understanding of literacy and help to dismantle the harmful stereotypes that still persist.
Conclusion
Reading is not an act confined to the eyes; it is an intellectual and emotional endeavour that transcends sensory modality. For many blind people, it is the ultimate expression of our love for stories, our curiosity, and our intellect. When someone diminishes my experience as “not really reading,” they underscore a fundamental misunderstanding of what it means to be a reader. As we continue to expand our understanding of accessibility, it is crucial to challenge and reframe such biases. Only by doing so can we begin to recognize and respect the many ways in which people interact with the written word, enriching our collective experience of literature in all its forms.
The Blind Criticizing the Blind...
To twist an old Cliche.
I've met plenty of blind people who have lost their senses of touch in the places one might read braille, like from MS, and it's not an option. The other way around is also true, and audio books are not an option. Not my place to criticize how information gets into someone else's brain.
OB, can you tell?
Lottie is annoyed.
You are right, I've worked with dozens of people who have lost their sight due to diabetes who had terrible neuropathy.
totally agree with Lottie
If you listen to an unabridged audiobook, you're getting exactly the same output as somebody reading a print or Braille book. You're just digesting the story in a different way. And what about reading using the Kindle app on your iPhone? You're still listening to the book with a synthetic voice, the only difference is you can see how words are spelt if you want to. Consuming an audiobook or ebook is the same as reading a physical book, you're just not using your eyes or fingers to read it. Why does reading have to be done with your eyes or fingers anyway?
More thoughts
First off, I'm a huge supporter of literacy, especially in underserved communities. I'd never discourage anyone from learning to read and write. The thing is, blind people, wherever possible, do need to know how to read first. At the end of the day, it helps with grammar, spelling, and punctuation. I don’t think you can fully grasp all of that by using audio alone, so I’m all for literacy when it comes to this. But I also recognize that learning to read Braille takes time, patience, and the right temperament, and I can imagine it must be especially difficult if you went blind later in life. My point is that there need to be more options on the table. It’s not about taking shortcuts or people not wanting to learn. That’s not what I mean. I think that when you have a disability, so much of your time is taken from you—time spent waiting, learning, adapting. And you can’t get that time back. It can feel like you’re doing twice as much work in a single day, but still only have 24 hours to get it all done. So when it comes down to it, it’s not about people feeling entitled. It’s about recognizing that you’re already going through more challenges than many people—even those within the blind community—may ever truly understand or empathize with. The more options on the table, the more you’re able to develop and spend less time catching up to a world that wasn’t designed with you in mind. It's about developing your skills, for example, public speaking, and helping to build your character. Did you know that blind people who know Braille are more likely to be employed? I wonder if that's partly because knowing Braille is seen as a sign of capability in the blind community. It's an interesting connection between a specific skill and perceived independence. Now, here's where it gets a bit tricky. I believe understanding concepts is key. If you're just plugging things into an AI program without grasping the core ideas, that's not ideal. But if you truly understand the material and can articulate it, does it matter if you use technology to help present it? Like, what if you could synthesize your voice or have slides read for you? If you know the material, why not use tools to make the process easier? I'm all for creating a more inclusive world. Not everyone fits into neat little boxes, you know? There are people with all sorts of abilities and disabilities. Some blind folks can't hear, others might have additional disabilities that make reading tough. We need to consider all these different situations.
Oh, and about audiobook narrators - I get that a bad narrator can ruin a good book. But here's the thing: AI isn't meant to replace or perfectly copy human speech. It's about having more options, maybe even cheaper ones. And hey, maybe sometimes we want AI creativity instead of human creativity. Have you ever thought about that? Sometimes the human touch just isn't enough anymore. At the end of the day, everyone has a story, and no story is more or less valid than another. I'm all about having choices. It's your choice, after all. Don't get me wrong - I'll always advocate for learning to read and write first. But life doesn't always go as planned, right? Sometimes you try your absolute hardest and still can't meet certain standards. Should we really judge people harshly for that? I don't think so. Everyone deserves a place in this world. Or at the very least, they shouldn't face so much hardship just for being different. Maybe it's our mindset that needs to change, not the people who don't fit our expectations.
Are blind people illiterate without braille?
No discussion about work Etc. just the question. that is what I have just ben told, that it is a 'verifiable fact' - there's some other stuff, but it goes a bit wild.
@lotty.
These days I do feel you can go it alone with a screen reader but I think being able to read braille at a young age, even the basics, would be adviseable.
I prefer computers to braille and always will but for example; frend,, friend,, one is correct and one is not, if I just hear that and have never come across the word before, I'd probably think that friend, f, r, i, e, n, d, is incorrect and that frend, f, r, e, n, d, is the write way to spell it.
If I can read the speling with my hands it will probably imprint on my brain a bit more.
Having said that; that's me,, others will learn differently.
Teachers really should give the student the chance to choose what they want to learn, i think 99% will go with the computer as it's easier, and is fun, then again; a brailller only has 9 keys so perhaps not.
Also, you seam to care so much about what others think of you, perhaps it's how I was raised but I just don't, they don't know me so if they don't want to call me listening to an audiobook reading it, so be it.
Life is what you make it, if you put so much energy into others, you won't have time for yourself.
Oh Brad
You are right about the braille, I love braille. I just don't like blind people discriminating against other blind people - we get so much of that in our every-day lives.
And that's the problem with Ableism, it stops us geting opportunities, to work and play and be successful...
Literacy in the blind community
So, I’m going to attempt to answer the question about whether or not a blind person who doesn’t know Braille is the same as being illiterate, and what that really comes down to. This isn’t a personal attack on anyone; if you’re blind and you don’t read Braille, I completely understand. Especially for those who went blind later in life, the comparison isn’t entirely fair. A sighted person fundamentally needs to learn how to read and write because they engage with written material every single day. In many places and contexts, being literate is increasingly essential, and there’s always a learning curve. Moreover, sighted individuals benefit from visual cues in their daily lives, such as pictures, images, and arrows, which provide additional context and understanding beyond just reading or writing. They can often glean information from their environment that a blind person cannot, giving them an advantage in interpreting the world. Unfortunately, a blind person doesn’t have those same advantages, as they rely on auditory information and tactile feedback.
Take me, for example. When I was learning Braille, I not only picked up the rules of grammar but also got a solid understanding of sentence structure, syntax, and spelling. You know, a question requires a question mark, and commas have their specific uses. It’s a bit like navigating a map; there are rules, and while some parts have exceptions, others are pretty straightforward. If you’ve only ever heard a word, like “psychology,” you might not know there’s a silent letter at the beginning if you’re learning through audio.
I always advocate for individuals, at least initially, to learn Braille rather than depending solely on audio. Braille provides a tactile connection to the text, which is essential for grasping language, grammar, and punctuation in a way that audio alone can’t fully convey. It’s not just about a child learning to read through audio; it’s different from a child learning to read in print or Braille. Some of us need to visualize punctuation marks and their structures in our minds to understand where they go. Being part of the blind community, I know how crucial it is for us to grasp these concepts as we engage with language. Even when I learned Braille, I noticed that the older I got, the less I tended to use it. I primarily relied on Braille during school for conducting presentations and taking notes. However, when it came to assignments, those were read by someone else who would type them up and print them for submission to the school. Essentially, the work I did in Braille was mainly for my own understanding, but it still had to be translated back into print for me to engage with the world fully. This shows how important it is for blind individuals to access print materials and participate in society. There are also practical challenges to consider. Braille materials can be bulky and heavy, making them difficult to transport. It’s not always easy to take a bunch of Braille books with you, especially when you need to access a variety of resources quickly. If the materials you want to read aren’t available in Braille, that limits your access to knowledge. If you don’t have access to the materials you need or if those materials aren’t available to you in a timely manner, it doesn’t mean you’re physically illiterate, but it does mean you’re theoretically illiterate in a sense. You know how to read and write, but if you can’t get the tools you need, it makes everything so much harder. And here’s the thing: some aspects of this literacy debate are nuanced. There’s common sense and general knowledge that comes with age and experience. Just because someone doesn’t read Braille doesn’t mean they can’t think critically or apply knowledge. If you can understand and interpret meaning based on context, you’re still literate. It’s crucial to recognize that the rules for teaching a child who learns primarily through audio differ from those for a child who learns through print, or braille. This doesn’t imply that the child isn’t capable of thinking critically or applying logic; it just highlights the need for tailored teaching strategies.
Braille.
I'm ok reading it sometimes but 9 times out of 10 i'll prefer an electronic thing.
Haha, I was going to right it exists on some things in the UK and my mind went, wait,, why aren't you writing x? Then I realised, oh yeah, we're not riting in braille.
Who decided x was it anyway?
Oh yeah and now they've changed it to UEB, I've not caught up on that and probably won't.
Braille and spelling
For me, while I am functionally fluent in braille, I've found that I can synthesize information more efficiently using a screenreader. For example, when I learned braille, I first learned the basics of letters and numbers, and then as time went by, learned and was strongly encouraged to use US braille contractions.
This, while allowing me to write in braille more quickly and conserve space on a page, confused me regarding spelling and grammar, as with the word "Friend," for example, I became used to feeling the letters F and R, and not knowing how to spell it whether I was hearing it spoken or feeling it written in contracted braille. A similar thing happened to me with punctuation, where I'd read and write commas, periods, question marks, etc, but until I heard something read to me with punctuating pauses, the sort spoken with the familiar voice and consistency of a screenreader, I had a hard time effectively and consistently parsing the meanings of such symbols when feeling them on a piece of paper. While this relative deficit may have been due to the recommendations of those who educated me, I can't say with any kind of certainty what would or wouldn't have made a difference, as my perspective on this topic is solely based on my personally lived experiences.
All this to say that from what I can tell as someone who's been blind since birth, there is no "One size fits all" strategy for teaching and exercising literacy among blind people. There are simply too many variables, such as other disabilities and lived experiences, access to resources, educational and social environment, and personal preferences, to form one comprehensive recommendation. I'm not an educator, but my layperson's opinion is that someone who is blind or has low vision should ideally be exposed to both braille and auditory modalities, and should be informed of the advantages and disadvantages of both as it relates to their personal circumstances.
Braille and Audio Books can Complement Each Other
The subject line says it all. I happen to be an OK Braille reader, but I also appreciate audio books. I love this both/and concept, and I recognize that if you assume it's got to be one or the other, your view is too narrow. Thanks.
Final question
In the post that we have been refering to, it was said:
"a blind person who listens to an audio book has no more read the book than my six year old granddaughter has read a book read to her." Maybe that wasn't exact, but it was almost that.
Would you like your teacher, professor, boss or friend saying that about you? It is almost like the person is equating us to cihldren, is infantilizing us - something that happens a lot and is very dangerous.
I saw that
Hi Lottie,
I saw that, and I don't agree at all. If you've used an unabridged audiobook to digest a story, then you've digested the story and got the same information from it. How you consume a book, fiction or non-fiction, is irrelevant. There's a lot of snobbishness surrounding this issue. The problem is that some people seem to believe that audiobooks are inferior to the written word, even though the written word is used to produce said audiobooks. I'm a member of a local book club, and we were discussing whether we'd read the book for the month and what we thought of it. Somebody made a comment like, 'I hope nobody read this on audio, that's cheating!' I thought about responding with a huge rant but didn't want to start a war. I probably should have stood for what's right, maybe I will next time.
Hey Tara, I agree
It's not worth challenging that sort of thing in a book club that you go to for fun. But it is casual Ableism and eventually we will have to have those ideas challenged if true equality is to be achieved.
That is why I object so strongly to someone who is seen as a 'leader' in the braille community propigating these ideas and then seeing them reinforced by his followers makes my blood boil!
Narrowmindedness is alive and well…
Narrowmindedness is alive and well in the world we live in. My ideology, and approach to reading, is the same as my approach to technology, whether it is accessible, or otherwise.
Whatever works for you.
Thank you, that is all.
People are exhausting
You know, I hear a lot of people say, "If you listen to an audiobook, you haven't really read the book." But honestly? I think that's a load of nonsense. I mean, come on, the audio comes from the written word, right? And even if you only have the audio version, there's still a written record somewhere. But here's the thing - even if there wasn't, who cares? Once you can read, write, and understand the information, does it really matter how you got it? We're still getting the same story, the same ideas. Some folks learn better by seeing, others by listening. Why should anyone look down on someone else just because they digest information differently? My philosophy? Live and let live. I still say I'm "reading" a book even if I'm listening to it. Just like I say I'm "watching" TV, even though I'm blind and can't actually see it. In the grand scheme of things, does it really matter? I'm all for reading in whatever form works best for you. Imagine if someone told us we needed to read from stone tablets or papyrus scrolls for it to "count" as reading. Or if they said, "Oh, reading on a screen doesn't count. It's not real reading unless it's a print book." Or writing - what if they said you're not really writing unless you're using one of those old-fashioned pens where you dip it in ink? Or a typewriter? Heck, why not go all the way back and say it only counts if you're carving on a stone tablet? Come on, that's ridiculous, right? At the end of the day, I'm all for getting information in whatever format works for you. It's about the content, not how you access it. Let's focus on what matters - learning, enjoying stories, and understanding each other. Everything else is just noise.​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​ It's sad because if you're saying audiobooks are inferior to reading, aren't you basically implying that people who prefer or need audio to learn are somehow less than others? That's the last thing anyone should suggest - we don't know what tomorrow brings, and this argument doesn't need to exist - people seem to find anything to argue about, valid or not, but I'm all for celebrating stories, diversity, and the different ways people learn and consume information.​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​
Agreed 110 Percent
I, too, have heard the argument that if you're hearing/listening to an audio book, you're not actually reading it. I strongly disagree with that sentiment. There are people who for various reasons cannot read Braille. My late former roommate was legally blind, and had neuropathy due to lupus. He tried to learn Braille, but just couldn't. I think it's very important to have an open mind on this and other issues.
It doesn't bother me.
But I get where you're all coming from.
My feelings
I think taking in information isn't necessarily the same thing as reading.
When I was a child, my Mum would read me bedtime stories. She was the one doing the reading and I was listening. It broke her heart when I told her one day that actually I could manage myself, thanks. At that point it was me reading for myself.
Now I'm blind, there are a number of ways I take in information, or listen to stories or whatever.
There's my screen reader, or other TTS. There are audio books. But it's not a huge leap from an audio book to a radio play or watching TV with audio description.
I think it all boils down to how you define reading.
If I read a book visually, everything happens in my head. The way the characters sound, any nuances in the wording, it all comes from me. I'm also seeing how the words and sentences are formed. I get the spelling of words and I'm invested in them.
Listening doesn't really give you this. If it's an audio book, it's a performance like a radio play. I loved the Steven Fry narrated Harry Potter books, but he is an actor. delivering linesI'm just sitting back and letting it wash over me.
If two of us listen to those books we get the same outcome. If two people sit down and read those books visually they will likely have very different experiences.
I think using a screen reader is closer to reading because it's just a bland voice that conveys nothing other than the sound of the words.
But I can understand why braille is considered to be how a blind person reads, because you are feeling the shape of the words and the work in interpreting them is up to you.
I didn't realise that blindness was even a possibility for me until I was in my early 20s so I would never have had the opportunity for braille. I sadly never really recognised it as a thing that would be useful until a year or two ago at that time I was in my late 40s and facing the overwhelming barrage of stuff you also have to re-learn when you go blind.
I wish I knew braille. I'd love to be able to pick up a book and be able to read it without having to listen to the constant barrage of voices in my head. Personally I find listening to a screen reader a really challenging way of learning anything. It maybe gets easier over time, and it's just another thing you need to get used to. But re-learning how you learn is quite tricky I think.
But anyway, whether a TTS or an audio book is reading or not, or whether me listening to TV is watching or not, is all just semantics. If you take in the information, however you do it, it doesn't really matter, and it's no one's place to judge someone else for how they do it.
I do wonder how someone starting out blind would learn how to spell or use proper grammar if they only ever listened to audio.
But then I'm always amazed at how other blind people do things, so anything is possible. Even Brad liking the Archers. The theme tune was always a big part of my childhood as my Mum was an avid listener.
As usual MrG, you cut straight through the nonsense!
Books from Audible, performed by actors are performances, more like radio plays than books. Listening to a book via TTS is more akin to reading - you have to add much more to it.
MrG, I'm not going to go into detail, but there are people who listen to everyting with JAWS. They say they get ful enjoymnet out of everything they read.
Like you, I've rather be a braille native, but I'm not, for many reasons. I have never and wil never try and stop anyone from lerning braille, but I also won't tolerate abuse and discrimination in any community I am a part of.
On a totally different matter, Brad is an Archers nut! Love you realy Brad!
One small thing...
mr grieves writes, "If two of us listen to those books we get the same outcome."
I'm afraid that is not the case. A person's brain is still doing a lot of processing and simulating or modeling between stimulation of ear parts and conscious awareness, and that doesn't even include any physical hearing issues. In all that processing, all kinds of things, including one's own personal and cultural experiences, influence the awareness end of the outcome. Fore example, the voice actor might remind me of a person who was mean to me, so I have a bias that you do not when we both listen to the same recording. Who knows what might be triggered for any individual.
And just for an extreme of how a person's brain can monkey with sound and voices, I remember some sort of documentary or something about a guy with a speech impediment, and his brain auto-tuned his own voice. He perceived himself to have a good singing voice, and I think also talking too, until he heard a recording, then he freaked out and, if I remember correctly, almost didn't want to speak anymore. His friends digitally reworked recordings of him singing to sound like what he perceived, and that was the twist of the story.
Who knows, there might be people out there who perceive certain fonts in print to make novels boring to read. *Shrugs*