Third-Party Braille Computers: Their Viability Today

Oh dear... I remember when those first came out back in the 80s. There were actually two competing types of those braille with speech output devices, I don't remember which was which, and I don't remember the name of the other one. They were almost completely word processors at the time. It's cool they have kept it going and modernized it along the way.
I have to say, having an off-the-shelf phone kind of just makes the Braille n' Speak an interesting curiosity, but I absolutely would use one, if I didn't have to fork over the cabbage for it.

I actually own an ElBraille. It is a Braille note taker that actually runs full Windows. I had one of the very first ones, with the Focus 14, but that one only had 2 gb of ram, so wasn't very usable, even though it did have full Windows. I sold that one, but several years later, I had the chance to trade a 2018 macbook air for one that a friend had laying around that he swore he didn't like and would never use it again. So, no money out of pocket. I wanted it mostly for the Focus display. One of the first things I did was remove JAWS and put on NVDA, which I find works better for Braille, the commands just make a bit more sense to me. This is the model with 8 gb ram and the Focus 40. Still no powerhouse, and the fan is kinda loud when you're used to an m1 mb air, but it does come in handy.
I used the Braille N' Speak as a kid, as well as the BrailleNote, and those devices were nice. I think the ElBraille is a nice continuation and evolution of those products. Being able to type in Braille really is good. While the ElBraille can technically run any Windows program, performance isn't anything to write home about, but I'm glad I have it, and I have pushed it to its limit a time or two. I will say, the devices of the past had much simpler menu navigation, since their operating systems were made specifically with those devices in mind, where Windows runs on so many different devices, and there are times where even though having Windows is nice, because you have the freedom to run any program, having a shell running over top, like keysoft, would be good because it made everything so much easier to access. Windows on a device that is navigated with only a Braille keyboard has its pros and cons.

I wouldn't go with any of these. With my Windows laptop, I do give up on braille, but secure a main-stream cutting edge machine, with best of power and performance. These main-stream machines would be also supporting latest standards, and have scope for upgradability.
All I want is a super cheep, super simple, no brains inside braille display. The brain should be my phone or laptop, the job of display should be to display what the other devices tell it to display via USB or Bluetooth or Wifi.
That way, may be the braille display won't need that much of charging, and it might as well be less bulky.
I am use to qwerty keyboard, and don't care about Perkins style controls.
May be the display can have magnets etc to mount it to my laptop's body, or, may be, magsafe it to back of iPhone.

I heard an interview about the Optima on the Double Tap podcast
https://www.orbitresearch.com/product/optima/
I wonder when it'll be released. If I were a braille user, I would want this. The ElBraille Justin describes is closer to a computer. I had a Braillelite M20, but I wouldn't describe a notetaker as a computer. But this Optima, from the description, it has the latest version of Windows 11, plus it can be updated. This is from the above page. With Optima, users no longer have to use out-of-date versions of operating systems or wait for the device vendor to push updates to them. They can always stay secure and up-to-date through Microsoft’s upgrade facilities. I mean, how cool is that? Serious question: Do any of you braille users want this? Who knows how much it'll cost though.

I don't like the keyboard, it's got concaved keys and there's no home row.

You have to use the function key with the up down left and right arrows.

The idea is interesting but I've never seen the apeal of pressing a button, having to read the display, and so on. Give me TTS anyday.

Also, it wasn't that loud, site villlage was loud but you could hardly hear the thing.

I also had a fleeting look at the Optima at Sight Village. It was weirdly thrilling to fin a laptop with no screen - you reach back for it and it's not there. I guess it must have some other kind of cover to keep it protected.

I think because it's being made in Israel the conflict there has had some major implications on some of the products.

Having said that, I think it probably makes more sense to go mainstream and plug in a braille display. That way the laptop and the braille can be replaced separately as needed. I don't know how long a braille display will last but certainly a laptop becomes old pretty quickly. If braille displays weren't so crazy expensive I'd love to try one, but I don't think I would go for an all in one device.

Given how small the Mac Mini is now, if they could make something like that with a battery then it would be much smaller than a laptop and you could use whatever keyboard or braille display you liked and just put the computer in your pocket.

I remember the interview on Double Tap with the guy talking about the Optima. He came across as really passionate. I liked how he was talking about how important he thought it was for blind people to be operating in the mainstream world rather than just being in their own bubble. Then skills become transferable. It made a lot of sense to me.

* Edit: Never mind, that probably doesn't make much sense.

The first notetaker I got was a BrailleNote MPower in fifth grade. For me, exploring and using it was largely a novelty that wore off over time.

While I thought refreshable braille and the various KeySoft applications seemed neat, I found that using it for school work, particularly as I got older, was more of a hindrance than a help. For example, that model of the BrailleNote required an external wireless card to connect to Wi-Fi, and thus if I wanted to send an assignment to a teacher, I had to either print it on paper or convert it to a mainstream format like Microsoft Word, put it on a USB flash drive, plug the flash drive into my computer, and then email it. Furthermore, if I had to perform any kind of research or other Internet task, I'd need a computer anyway, making use of the BrailleNote for word processing quite cumbersome in my overall workflow.

In High School, I upgraded to a BrailleNote Apex, and while it offered several improvements over the MPower, like a sleeker build, a scroll wheel, and built-in Wi-Fi, it still could not keep up with my increasingly demanding academic workload, particularly when collaborating with sighted peers, as many of the tools they used could not be used with my Apex. Factor in the numerous compatibility issues I faced when trying to use the Apex with printers, flash drives, and websites that rendered in the increasingly antiquated basic HTML view, and it became clear to me that it could not realistically fulfill my academic or personal productivity needs.

In short, while I found the BrailleNote MPower and Apex fun to explore for a while, their failure to allow me to be even somewhat competitive in a sighted world with rapidly evolving technological standards and expectations significantly reduced their value proposition for me over time. Increasingly in high school and then college, I just used my iPhone and computer, and honestly haven't had the desire to get another notetaker since. I roughly equate it to the experience of using pre-iPhone smartphones, where you could check email and use the web to a point, which were revolutionary ideas at the time, but their ultimate execution left much to be desired for many every day users.

Tara, the ElBraille is also on Windows 11. It came with 10, but I was able to upgrade fairly easily. I would say you are right in saying this is closer to a computer than a note taker. But the form factor is still pretty much that of a note taker. Perhaps a bit bigger than the old note takers though.
I have heard very little about the Optima. The only experience I have had with Orbit products was with the Orbit 20, not the smart version, just the classic. With the way it worked, I found the Braille to refresh much slower than with other displays, and also it was much louder. This was a problem, because I was using it for two things, my online radio station, and it could clearly be picked up on the mic, even though I did find using it in short bursts to be better, but I also used it for teaching Bible class at the church I was going to at the time, and the over all clunkiness of the device often seemed to make my job harder not easier. With just about any other display, it is less obvious when I am reading notes, and when just speaking, and it is a lot easier to flow through any kind of lesson or presentation, but as loud as the Orbit was, you could hear every refresh of the display, and with a 5 print page lesson to get through, it was not pretty! I would go through each lesson beforehand and try to trim it down, but using the Orbit made each lesson seem eternal. So, I hope their displays have gotten better since then, because if they are anything like what is in the old Orbit displays, I wouldn't want to use an Optima, no matter how good the rest of the software is. I respect what Orbit did, because they were able to drastically lower the price of a Braille display, and had I never used a BrailleNote or anything like it, that would've been fine, but after having used other refreshable Braille products, it just wasn't a good experience. The ElBraille, with that Focus display, is much better. The nice thing is, I can detach the Focus and just take that with me if it is all I need. But, if I find I need the actual computer, it's there, ready to go.

You're completely correct, with it being made in Israel, things are slower. I spoke to the woman there and she told me a lot about what was going on and how it affected her and her team.

re: noise. From what I remember you could still hear the noise over the croud at sight village but I'm not completely sure of that.

I understand they want to keep costs low but if you're paying for a computer then you should not be able to hear the pins moving.

The idea of orbit is nice for those who like braille displays but for me, I'll stick with my laptop and NVDA.

I still love those devices even though I can't afford one, Lol. I have a BrailleNote Touch Plus from 2019, but it has plenty of issues. The main one being that when reading books on BookShare, many of the books have no actual spaces in them, so everything runs together. Other people have had this issue on the Touch Plus but it was never addressed by HumanWare, making a really expensive piece of equipment, partially useless. I've always been fascinated by the ElBraille, because I'm so used to Windows.

Hello,

I personally would bennifit from one of these devices, but I honestly don't know which one to get. I do a lot of traveling for my work, and I feel it's necessary to have a all-in-one device so I don't have to cary multiple devices and multiple cords. I'm conflicted between the Braille Sense 6 and the Braille Note touch plus. While they both have their pros and cons when thinking about these devices, I do love the Braille Note's structor, but the android system is running android 8.1 while the Braille Sense is runny android 12. I also like the feel of the keys on the Braille Note. They're clicky and sound awesome! The Braille Sense however doesn't have very much click to the keys. I like the fact the you can use Touch Braille, sort of like BSI on the Braille Note touch, but with the Braille Sense you can't do this. There are other things I like about both products, but I won't go into much detail here, but the long and the short is I'm trying to choose which one to have my state help me purchace but I don't know which one to go with, and I'm also afraid of buying something, and the technology will fail out in the next year or so, so then I'd be investing in old equipment. I don't know how many of you use Sales force or quickbooks online, but I use them both on the daily and need something that works well with these websites. Yes, I agree a computer and a braille display works well but my point is I need something that's easy to cary, and something that I don't have to cary multiple devices and cords just to get the job done.

Hi Justin,
Thanks for your explanation. The ElBraille isn't available here in the UK at the moment because of the Russia Ukraine conflict. I do like the idea of having a braille device with an up-to-date version of Windows on it, and you can install anything you would install on a Windows machine. However, I'm so used to using just my phone and laptop for everything, I just wouldn't have any need for a braille device. And Tyler your comments about braile notetakers struck a chord with me, no pun intended. I had a Braillelite M20 for university, and I always used it to take notes in class and nothing else. My real work like assignments and so on was done on my laptop anyway. After university I never used it again. It wouldn't have been any good for me in a work environment, and I've just used my laptop for work ever since.

I'd be extremely surprised if either the Braille sense or BN Touch + would actually provide an efficient method for accessing platforms like Sales Force and/or Quickbooks. I recently had a client working in the financial investment field using a BrailleNote touch Plus, after just one week using SalesForce, we moved to a laptop with Jaws and a focus 40.

I know very little about the Braille Sense so can't comment on that. I would definitely advise against the Touch Plus. Its OS is antiquated, and updates don't actually fix ongoing issues.

@Tara
I completely understand. If it wasn't for some of the things I do for online radio, having show notes I can read, and not have to listen to a screen reader which can be a distraction when I am talking, rather than a help, I probably wouldn't need Braille either. Same for when I was teaching Bible classes. There's no way I could have done it with just a screen reader.
Sounds like you don't need a Braille device at all, but if you ever did, I would recommend just grabbing up a display like the Focus, that can be paired with multiple devices, and you'd be good to go. Like I said, the reason I traded for the ElBraille in the first place was the Focus 40, not the computer piece, as that hardware is already somewhat outdated.

the Optima is intended to be quite customisable, so the plan is to offer both piezoelectric and Orbit-type cells among many other options that can be customised.

Interesting. I am glad to have the ElBraille, but could have never paid for it outright, and would expect the same would also apply to the Optima, as it would probably be far outside my budget. But it is good to know it can be customized.

I didn't know they were going that far, i'd still not want it personally but wow, that's pretty cool.

So, what is the ideal size of a braille display? In my head, I imagine something about the size of an iPad Pro, only instead of touchscreen, it's a braille display.

I have the ElBraille with the Focus 40, which is good for reading long portions of text, not quite as nice for portability. The Focus 14 is great for portability, but of course you have to do a lot more scrolling. If I could find someone who had the same ElBraille as me, only the 14 cell version, who wanted to trade, I'd be all over it, for the extra portability. Like you've said before in threads of Mac OS vs Windows, the ideal setup is what is ideal for you. Would you rather have something small that you can almost fit in a pocket, or that doesn't take up much space in a bag, or something that is a bit bigger, gives you more cells, but isn't quite as easy to pack? Not that the 40 cell is a monster by any means, but when you fit the Focus and the ElBraille together, it's slightly unwieldy to just carry around if you don't use the included strap, which I don't, because when I have it on my desk it gets in the way and is just a bit annoying.

Hey Tara,
Just wanted to correct something I had said previously. I mentioned that I have the ElBraille running on Windows 11, and that is true, but I'd forgotten that the processor in it is just on the cut off point so not officially supported, requiring me to do a bit of hacking to get Win 11 up and running. Still very doable, and it was easy for me, just followed a guide online, but each person's skill set will be different, and while based on our discussion thus far, it doesn't seem like a device like this would be the right fit for you anyway, I still wanted to come back and clarify my previous statement regarding Win 11 on the ElBraille, and ease of upgrade.

Hi Justin,
Thanks for all your comments. I've got pretty used to listening to people in calls and my screen reader at the same time. I just have my screen reader's volume a bit lower than Teams or Google Meet.

Ah listening to people at the same time as NVDA isn't quite as bad as trying to listen to NVDA and talk at the same time. About as bad as trying to walk and chew gum. lol Even if I were to put headphones in so nobody else could hear NVDA, I would be totally lost trying to talk and listen to NVDA at the same time. So in that case, it makes more sense to mute speech and just use Braille, but if I'm not on air or doing something similar, I do find speech much faster.

Friend has one, She knows Braille but she still have issues with the machine. She got the mini. Over $4000, nuts. That would be 7 payment of my mortgage. Have a PC with a wireless keyboard and headset. It is better. Also JAWS 25. Now typing from my couch relaxing and the cat on top of me.

For those of us in the US, how are the devices that are available from the National Library Services? Are they viable in today's market?

To tell you the true. I had not got one. I suppose I should but more likely I probably would not use it. What I have and use works for me.

Hats off to the creator of this topic! This is a very interesting read and I'm delighted it hasn't turned into what these threads sometimes do - namely, a thread about how rubbish these braille notetakers are. I have several things to say:

1. I think the problem with the third party notetaker is its identity crisis. If you have something like the Touch Plus, for example, it seems to want to be a notetaker and at the same time a laptop replacement. it has a whole load of connnectivity options, is compatible with Cloud services...the list goes on; but it doesn't do most of that very well. So it pleases neither constituency. For folk like me, it has loads of stuff I don't want in a notetaker. For folk who want to use their notetaker to help them compete in the mainstream world, perhaps as a fully-fledged laptop replacement, it doesn't do lots of things well enough to pass muster. that's the identity crisis I'm talking about. In my view, a proper notetaker is something like the brailliant Bi20X or BI40x from Humanware - a true notetaker that does not very much but does it superbly. It's just a basic wordprocessor, book reader, and Braille display for your iPhone. It leaves the other stuff to your laptop or smartphone. It's a great product.

2. but, Bingo, why would you want something that does so little? Well, sometimes owning a device that can't go online and be mucked about with by hackers etc. is a huge virtue. In my job as a line manager I have to have plenty of confidential conversations. I have to take plenty of confidential notes. My sighted colleagues who are line managers have to handwrite these notes owing to the strict data protection regime in the UK. On no account can they store them online and they must be got rid of as soon as no longer needed. The fact that I can take these notes in BRF format (which only a Braille-reading thief could read), allied with the fact that these documents go nowhere near an active internet connection, means I can use my Brailliant in a data-compliant way to do my job. So for that use case, it's the perfect product. It's an electronic pad and paper - no more, and no less - and because it's so simple it's indispensable.

3. I also listened to Adi's various interviews regarding the Optima. I found his initial stance about some of these products rather dismissive, and I say that as someone who has been in a professional mainstream occupation for 19 years now, but to be fair to him when I wrote to him about that point he did confirm that he subscribes to the Bingo's pad and paper theory. I think the Optima is aimed at professionals and as a professional I'm delighted they are lookign at that market rather than trying to serve all markets. I might be interested in the Optima, not as a pad and paper but as a laptop. I've not seen it yet.

4. I do miss my MPower and my Apex. The former, in particular, was very good. If only I could have an MPower with a slimmed down form factor and wifi for receiving software updates I think I would be very pleased. One of the great things about the Braille translation on that machine was its loyalty to paper Braille. I'm talking about little things like marking the beginning of a new paragraph with a two-cell indent. It could also do text to BRF translation very well. the Apex had all that too, I suppose, but for some reason I always thought the MPower did things just that little bit better.

5. Optimum size? I would say 14 is too small, 32 or 40 is reasonable for a Braille display that's not going to be following you about that much, but 20 is really good both for portability and readability. I find reading novels on the 20-cell a breeze.

6. Types of cells? The problem with these more expensive cells, I find, is that the pins are less durable. Orbit cells are noisy but the Braille is superb. I wish one could have the Orbit durability with the quietness of the other type of cells.
So the conclusion from bingo Towers is: I'll always use these third party things, but no bells and whistles, please. Just stick to the pad and paper theory and do that very, very well...with a book reader thrown in, plus bluetooth for connecting to the dear old phone. Nothing else.

I realise I've only talked about computers with a Braille display here. That is an indicator of my use case and preference. I can't see myself wanting something like the BT Speak. NO Braille, and a bit of the identity crisis bundled in. That said, they do seem to be walking off the shelves, so there must be some jonny out there who likes them. Bravo, Jonny, in that case.

I think I like your idea of the "pad and paper" theory. Something that does the basics, but does it very well, seems like an ideal accessory for my mainstream device. Personally, I would never, never replace my laptop and/or iPhone with an all-in-one braille device, but that's just me.
You say a 20 is a good size for both functionality and portability? I think I will have to look more into these NLS loaners, and see what they're offerings are.

The notetakers of today I think Bingo describes well. They really just can't keep up with the rapid evolution. Phones get bigger chips every year, Android grows, so even the theoretically Android OS powered notetakers fall behind to fast for a Braille device. I feel some of these "tweener" devices like the Brailliants or Orbit Reader also suffer a bit in the identity crisis area. For the most longevity, all my display needs to do is be absolutely excellent and displaying Braille, offer enough navigation keys, and be excellent at connecting to a host device aka be a dumb terminal.
I would love to have a Windows 11 laptop with an included Braille display instead of the useless visual screen. The form factor would be great. Using a laptop and a 40 cell display on the go is really kind of hard. They just don't fit to hold them both! But as someone else pointed out, laptops are replaced more frequently than Braille displays typically. And that would be a big concern for me. Now, Windows laptops are more stable than they used to be and you can get 4-5 years out of one now much easier than 20 years ago. (Assuming you don't drop it.) Nevertheless, I'd have to classify something like the Optima as a splurge purchase versus being entirely prudent. Doesn't mean I might be tempted though depending on what it offers. I think in part, though not easy to do, a company would need to offer a replacement/upgrade/reuse plan. I mean the notetakers of today should be doing this now.

So there are 2, and unfortunately, Pennsylvania was given the Zoomax. Almost everyone I know who has a Zoomax, had to exchange it 2 or 3 times in order to get one that worked and held a charge. I'm on my third, and this one seems to be holding up OK. But the devices themselves are buggy, lots of battery issues, issues at startup. The only thing I like about it is the layout; there are keys to scroll on the top of the machine instead of the typical thumb keys that most displays have now. I know most people like the HumanWare thumb keys, but I never have, I feel like my hands get in the way of each other somehow. So at least there's one thing the Zoomax has going for it. I literally can't imagine how it would do pairing to a phone or computer; it's so clunky without being paired that I'm afraid trying so might kill it and I'd be in the market for number 4.

Apart from the ElBraille, which is no longer being sold, there are at least two other commercially available braille notetakers running Windows 11, namely the insideONE+ and the b.book. Both of these devices can be purchased around the world, including in the US.

Both of these devices lack QWERTY keyboards, which undoubtedly limits them as a productivity tool. However, the reason why I'm unwilling to purchase them—as well as the Optima—is the frequency with which I would need to connect peripherals. I sometimes need to show sighted people things on my screen, which means that I would need to purchase a monitor. Because sighted people sometimes need to control my screen, I'd need to purchase a mouse. And because I frequently do videoconferencing meetings, I'd need to purchase a webcam. A laptop and a braille display is more portable than a braille notetaker with up to four peripherals, the specific number of peripherals required depending on the braille notetaker being used.

TJT encapsulates precisely why notetakers should never try to replace laptops or smartphones! I hosted a Zoom meeting on the ElBraille once - had to buy a plug-in webcam, and while I could remember the various mystical key combinations to perform basic Windows operations, it did take half a second or so for me to remember them. If you're not comfortable with that, you're having to buy a qwerty keybord to connect as well.

The virtues of products that comply with the pad and paper theory, notwithstanding the problems with one of the NLS eReaders set out a few comments back,are that there isn't a lot that can go wrong and, by the same token, there isn't a lot that can become obsolete. My dear old Apex, which I used for basic notetaking, reading and calculating, lasted me 10 long years. It'd still be fine now if I could find the somewhat elephantine charger it used to use. The ElBraille, by contrast, I found a bleedin' awful machine to use with something or other going amiss most days.

Does the Optima have a camera? My understanding was it does not, presumably on the somewhat old hat basis that blind people can't see so what the devil would they want with a camera? An optima without a camera, I have to say, would have a mega raspberry blown at it from this quarter.

I have a braille sense 6 myself and I love it.
Since it runs android I love the fact I can access the google playstore and I use teams and outlook on the Braille Sense for work as well.
I also use the Braille Sense as a braille display with both JAWS and NVDA.

So perhaps this exists already and I've just not found it. Or someone can make it for me. Since we do now have QWERTY style Braille displays finally, the Mantis Q40 and Orbit Reader QWERTY in particular, we just need a keyboard case that can fit them and a tablet and we can have our own Braille computer. I'd like it to be able to hold either an iPad, or a Microsoft Surface Pro. Then I could have my iOS or even more useful to me Windows Braille computer. As I was thinking about this, I still like the form factor idea of the Optima but it seems to me we have a much easier path forward by just combining a couple of things that already do exist.

That's not an option for many of us. If I tried something like that my IT department would never buy it. It is a condition of my using a mobile device to access Teams and Outlook that it's running the latest OS. Imagine the shock and horror were it found out that I was trying to access work data with an android notetaker running about a thousand software versions behind! all right, the corporate laptop I have is bloody awful...army surplus springs to mind...but at least I don't own that.

Does anyone else miss the two-cell indent for the start of a paragraph thing? Or am I the only one yearning for that degree of fidelity to paper braille? I'd love that scientific calculator application from Keysoft back as well. None of this using computer braille to do calculations nonsense.

I was talking about how nice it would be to have dear old Keynote Gold on the Brailliant earlier. what nostalgic fun that would be.

I mentioned above that I would never replace my laptop or smart phone for an all-in-one Braille device. In today's business world I don't think anyone could, or should, do that, even if they wanted to. As has been already mentioned, the amount of peripherals and/or accessories someone would need to compensate for all of the missing applications on a standalone device (a.k.a, a laptop), is just headache inducing.
Bingo, at least your work laptop actually works. One of my last contract IT jobs had me using a PC running Windows 10 Enterprise, and every time I rebooted it, it booted into the dreaded "blue screen of death".
Good times ... 🙄

Bingo, I also like seeing proper braille formatting, so I run documents through Duxbury on my computer before loading them onto my braille display as a BRF file. The time to run a file through Duxbury probably adds a minute or less to my workflow. For those without the means to purchase Duxbury who would like to do the same thing, BrailleBlaster and Sao Mai Braille are good free alternatives.

However, I actually prefer computer braille for calculator applications, and I always switch back to it, even when the calculator app supports a braille code I'd prefer to use for reading maths, in my case UEB.

You have to connect to another monitor or laptop.

Bingo,
I loved Keynote. I wish there was some way to install it over top of Win 11 on the ElBraille.
Someone several posts back mentioned that the ElBraille is no longer being sold. I didn't know this, but it makes sense, as I haven't seen any updates to the product since the version I have, and that has been a few years.

I also would love to just use the Focus, and leave out the ElBraille piece entirely. Unfortunately, when I've needed to read notes for a presentation or anything like that, and I tried doing it with my phone, I've had issues with either all the controls for the app in use getting in the way, my screen locking when I would pause to long to expand on a particular point I was discussing, and then after unlocking, losing my place, and that sort of thing, so while it's still a bit clunky, I do find that I end up preparing things either in text edit or notes on the Mac, and then exporting to either pdf or some other file type Windows can handle okay, and then just moving it to iCloud drive to load up on the ElBraille. It would be great on the phone to have a way to hide all the controls for the app in use, and just have my text. Nothing else! No buttons or controls of any kind! I can get out of the text with the B chord, or a two finger scrub, so no controls, just my text. As far as the screen locking, I know, I could always set the screen to not lock, but I always forget to change it back after I'm done doing whatever I need to do. I have for now given up on trying to do presentations with just the Focus and my phone due to these issues. So, while I pretty much agree with a lot of the statements made about the note takers also trying to be laptops, for some of the things I do, the ElBraille is still my best option. The Focus also has its own Scratchpad, but converting files to .brf or .brl on the mac is kind of hard last I checked. Lastly, I'm having a bit of a problem with the Focus where the battery is messed up, and it will show 100% one second, give me a low battery warning the next, but even though the display says it's at 0%, it may still work for another two hours, so obviously it's really not at 0. But if I shut it off, it may not power back on until I connect it to power. Even if I then unplug it, it may still work for a while. So, something is obviously up, and the only reliable way for me to use the Focus is inside the ElBraille until I can afford to get the Focus itself fixed. I never would have bought the second ElBraille, the one I have now, with my own money, but the chance to trade for one did indeed work in my favor.

BrailleBlaster has a Mac version, which I've heard is as quick and easy to use as the Windows version. I highly recommend giving it a try. You just open a file, press a keystroke to translate it and then save the resulting file as a BRF. (Duxbury also has a Mac version, but it'll set you back about $600.)

Will take a look at Braille Blaster.
In a bit of possible good news, I may have gotten the problem with my Focus resolved. Fingers crossed, but it's not giving me weird low battery messages after I went in and tightened all the screws on the bottom of the device. Actually typing this message on it right now. Will let y'all know if it starts acting up again, but if all goes well, and I can get Braille Blaster working on this mac, I may be set. For a long time, Braille Blaster wouldn't work for me, because I was doing a lot more in Spanish, and the Spanish table in Braille Blaster was off, but for English, I think it would work just fine.

I didn't mean Keynote as in the alternative to Powerpoint. I meant Keynote Gold as in the speech synthesiser that used to mega accentuate the question mark. Are other copies of Word Perfect currently running? In the hands of Keynote Gold that sounded like a telling off.

with presentations, I find a good wy is to have a PDF copy of my slides on my Brailliant. I can then use the laptop to move them along etc. and still have a Braille copy. JAWS with a Focus40 I haven't tried as my work laptop, unbelievably, does not have a bluetooth adapter! Yes yes yes I know you can be a USB merchant with the Focus but I often find myself without the requisite cable.

Unfortunaqtely I am not allowed to install duxbury, BrailleBlaster or anything like that on my dear old work laptop, but that's a jolly good shout for my own personal use.

It's too bad some of these apps cannot run off of a thumb drive without requiring an installation. That is one thing I absolutely cherish about NVDA. That BSOD Windows 10 PC I mentioned in a previous post; I wasn't allowed to install anything either. I, could, have the IT department install it, but they would have locked it down so that nothing could be changed within its settings. Luckily you can run NVDA directly from a thumb drive without installing anything.

Would be wonderful if some of these accessible apps we require were also as versatile. 🤷

Bingo, don't know what I was thinking. Apparently I shouldn't be doing that much writing or replying that late at night, even if I have had coffee, because I wasn't even thinking of the right thing. I do remember the Keynote you are talking about, but what I was actually thinking of was Keysoft, the suite the BrailleNote ran, which from what I remember for a long time did have the Keynote synthesiser, and the whole thing ran over top of Windows CE, and Keysoft was just a shell for the whole thing. So, here I was thinking, it would be cool to be able to install Keysoft over top of Win 11, turn the ElBraille in to a slightly more traditional note taker. Thankfully, looks like I may have solved the problem with my focus, thus enabling me to use it apart from the ElBraille, with either my Desktop or phone, and also take advantage of Scratchpad for offline reading.
Like Brian said, bummer you can't put any of these programs on a thumb drive.

I remember the Keynote Gold stand alone device that plugged into the serial com port.., but before that I used a Toshiba laptop with something that was somehow related to that whole Keysoft thing, like burned into its chips. Funny how the specifics fade in the memory as one ages...
@Brian, I've run the whole OS that I use off of a thumbdrive in a computer from time to time. There's something comforting, though, knowing I have an iPhone that can serve as a whole backup computer and OS with wireless network connection that can still fit in my pocket and works even when the power goes out etc.

Oh yeah, these days you can run operating systems off of thumb drives, since they're basically external hard drives at this point. I know, for a fact, that you can do this with macOS, so that you can have two different versions of macOS on a Mac computer. Pretty sure you can do this with the windows, and even certain versions of Linux.

Wait - what? I can run MacOs on a thumb drive? So I could install Sequoia seperately and try it out before committing? I will have to investigate.

Bit of a delayed reply... I realise I am maybe being a bit optimistic about how easy it is to get O&M training in the UK. When I had mine, there was one trainer and I think she was doing about 3 counties. They now have a second. But at the same time, it's worth asking if it's something that might help.

Up to a point, I think I am OK with much of the training not relying on tech.

I think of the cane more as an extension of myself and less separate than, say, my phone. So to have general skills on being able to walk about without colliding with obstacles, how to find the nobbly bit at a crossing, how to cope with other situations. I see that as a grounding on top of which sits the tech. And I think having the grounding makes a lot of sense because you never know if you might need it. It's not that a cane can't let you down - when a cyclist ran into mine it was pretty useless after that. But that's why having a spare on you is also worth it if you are on your own I guess.

The problem with tech is that it is changing all the time, and it can let you down. Actually the people that did my cane training also were able to help with some tech things - I got advice on phones, help with things like liquid level indicator and so on. If I had asked them for help with Voice Vista I reckon they would have researched it and come back to me. But that would put the onus on me to know about it

I have been out and about using Voice Vista a bit, although I tend to use that sort of thing to tell me about what's around rather than as a navigation aid exactly. I think it's a fantastic app but it's definitely not that accurate. Maybe because it's in my pocket - I think I am supposed to walk around with my phone held out in front of me or something which isn't happening. I did use SoundScape to navigate us somewhere which was quite satisfying. But you need all the less technical bits to get you anywhere so you don't just walk into the road or smack yourself into a bollard or whatever.

I think I am pretty lazy, though. It's just easier to let the working pair of eyes figure out where to go then get out my phone, unlock it and start fiddling about. This is what I like about things like the Meta glasses - I can just ask things without it taking me longer or being more clumsy than it would be if I could see. And that's one of the promises of Glide for me.

Here you go, sir.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/111336