Something different is coming: a progressive web app for you all.

Thank you for taking the time to provide such detailed feedback. It's incredibly valuable for us as we continue to refine the experience. I can definitely clarify some of the points you raised.
First, regarding the screen reader usage: You've hit on a core aspect of how our app is designed to provide a unique, immersive experience, especially in features like the photo grid and room exploration.
The Built-in Screen Reader and Why VoiceOver Needs to Be Off for Tactile Exploration:
• Custom Gestures and Spatial Interaction: Our app's tactile exploration modes (like the photo grid and room exploration) rely heavily on custom multi-touch gestures and spatial audio cues. We've designed a system that allows you to "feel" the layout of a scene or room, pinpoint specific objects, and zoom into them using your fingers directly on the screen.
• VoiceOver Interference: When an external screen reader like VoiceOver is active, it intercepts most of these multi-touch gestures. This means the app doesn't receive the direct touch input it needs to interpret your "explorations" (drags, double-taps for zoom, triple-taps for navigation, or multi-finger swipes to exit). VoiceOver tries to describe what's on the screen rather than allowing you to directly interact with the spatial layout.
• Split Tap Limitation: You suggested a "split tap" might be easier, but this would unfortunately remove the ability to perform the nuanced multi-finger gestures that allow for zooming and precise navigation. Our system is designed for a more direct, multi-dimensional tactile feedback, not just sequential item reading.
• Current Workflow: Yes, for now, the intended workflow is to temporarily disable VoiceOver when entering the tactile exploration modes (photo grid, room exploration) to fully engage with our app's unique interactive features. We understand this adds an extra step, and we're always looking for ways to streamline this, but it's a necessary compromise to deliver these specialized experiences. For all other parts of the app (menus, settings, etc.), VoiceOver can certainly remain on.
Your Experience with the Photo Grid ("Bullseye" Mode):
• "Bullseye" Mode: You're correct; "Bullseye" is our primary focus for photo exploration, with other modes being future developments.
• Sounds but No Descriptions: The sounds you hear are indeed our spatial audio cues. They're designed to give you a sense of where objects are in the grid and their importance, even before you explicitly select them. This helps you build a mental map of the scene. The detailed descriptions are triggered once you tap or select a specific area.
• Accidental Selection and Descriptions: You noted that accidentally selecting a square gave you a description – that's precisely how it's designed to work! When you explicitly touch and pause, or "select" an area, the app then provides a verbal description of what's there.
• Quiet Periods and "Reset": Quiet periods could occur if you move your finger quickly outside a selected area, or if the app is momentarily processing. The "Reset" sound you heard is an audio cue indicating that the exploration focus has been cleared, perhaps because a gesture was completed or canceled, or a timeout occurred. This is indeed to let you know a state change has happened.
• Drill-down Limits: You accurately observed that there are limits to how far you can drill down. The system processes the image into progressive levels of detail, and once the finest available detail is reached, it will stop. This is by design, as there's a computational limit to how finely we can analyze an image.
• Exiting Exploration: It sounds like you might have accidentally triggered one of the multi-finger exit gestures. For example, a three-finger swipe left is intended to close the exploration mode. We'll work on making these gestures more intuitive and providing clearer audio feedback when they occur.
Your Suggestions:
• Loading Indicators: This is excellent feedback! You're absolutely right that the app should provide more audio cues when it's actively processing something. We are actively working on implementing these kinds of "wait" or "processing" sounds to prevent users from feeling like the app has gone quiet or is unresponsive.
• Camera Access on Start: The app requests camera access upon startup to ensure all core functionalities are immediately available. We understand how this can be perceived as annoying when not directly using the camera, however this is an IOS restriction. We are currently researching ways around this.
• Comparison to PiccyBot: You've made a great comparison that helps highlight the different approaches. PiccyBot excels at providing comprehensive, upfront descriptions. Our app aims for a different experience: interactive spatial discovery. Instead of getting a detailed list immediately, our goal is to empower you to actively explore a scene, decide what you want to focus on, and then zoom into that specific object or area for detail. It's about letting you drive the exploration rather than receiving a pre-defined description.
• Comparison to PiccyBot: You've made a great comparison that helps highlight the different approaches. PiccyBot excels at providing comprehensive, upfront descriptions. Our app aims for a different experience: interactive spatial discovery. Instead of getting a detailed list immediately, our goal is to empower you to actively explore a scene, decide what you want to focus on, and then zoom into that specific object or area for detail. It's about letting you drive the exploration rather than receiving a pre-defined description.
You're right that there's a learning curve with these new interaction models, but we believe the ability to spatially "feel" and interact with visual information offers unique advantages that complement traditional screen reader functions. Your feedback helps us immensely in making this powerful tool more user-friendly.

In response to your first post, I'm glad to hear that the "touch grid" concept resonated with you as a potentially useful and genius idea!
Let me address your points, as there are indeed some critical design decisions and functionalities that might not be immediately obvious.
On the Built-in Screen Reader and VoiceOver Interaction:
You've pinpointed a key area: the interplay between our built-in screen reader and external accessibility tools like VoiceOver. Our app is designed to offer a unique, immersive "spatial computing" experience, particularly in the photo grid and room exploration modes.
• Why VoiceOver Needs to Be Off for Explore Modes: The reason we recommend turning off VoiceOver for these specific "explore" modes is fundamental to their design. VoiceOver, while powerful, is designed to linearize and announce elements one by one. Our exploration modes, however, are built around direct, multi-finger gestures and spatial interaction.
• For example, dragging your finger across the photo grid isn't just about moving between "buttons"; it's about continuously sampling a visual space, hearing sounds that change in pitch and pan as you move, and triggering feedback that varies based on the object's texture or proximity.
• If VoiceOver is active, it intercepts these gestures, interprets them as standard navigation commands, and prevents the app from receiving the raw touch input needed for the spatial feedback. It tries to describe the UI elements, whereas we want you to "feel" the image content itself.
• Split Tap vs. Spatial Gestures: You mentioned that a "split tap" might be easier. While split taps are great for standard UI elements, they wouldn't allow for the continuous, dynamic sampling of space that makes the grid unique. The multi-finger gestures (like double-tap to zoom, triple-tap to navigate, or three-finger swipe to exit) are designed to provide a rich vocabulary of interaction within that spatial context, allowing you to quickly delve deeper or navigate away using physical movements. It's a different paradigm than sequential navigation.
• "Daniel" and Voice Customization: I understand your "unnatural aversion to Daniel"! You're right that the voice settings page can be a bit overwhelming as it offers many advanced options. We are working on simplifying this. The app should generally respect your preferred voice settings. If it's reverting to Daniel or your Spoken Content voice randomly, that sounds like a bug we need to investigate, as it should consistently use your selected app voice.
Getting Out of the Grid and Unexpected Navigation:
• Exit Gestures: You're absolutely right, there are specific gestures to exit the exploration modes without needing to re-enable VoiceOver. For Room Exploration, a three-finger swipe left is designed to take you out. For Photo Exploration, the gestures are slightly different depending on the context, but the general principle is multi-finger swipes for broader actions. We recognize that these need clearer verbal instruction and practice. The "Reset" cue you heard might be related to gestures that clear the current focus within the grid.
• Accidental Home/App Closure: This sounds like a system-level gesture on your iPhone might have been triggered by accident while attempting app-specific gestures. We aim to keep our gestures distinct to avoid such conflicts but even native apps can be closed with certain jestures. Just insure to stay away from the very top and bottom of your screen as swiping down or up from those points is an on device command.
Terms & Conditions and Location Services:
• Checkbox Process: Thank you for this candid feedback. The "checkbox fatigue" and dimmed button scenario is a known accessibility challenge. We're actively looking into ways to make this process smoother and more intuitive, perhaps by providing better focus indication or summarization but it is important for all that information to be read and understood for legal reasons.
• Location Services: The Safari blocking message and the "ask" setting suggest a browser-level permission issue. Sometimes, even if set to "ask," certain browser privacy settings can be very strict or require a manual override for PWAs. This is a common hurdle with web-based apps accessing device features, and we're working on clearer in-app guidance for these situations.
Social Media and "Overwhelming" Features:
• Social Media as Optional: You hit the nail on the head: the social media aspects are completely optional. We included them because a significant portion of our early user base expressed a strong desire for a truly accessible platform to share visual experiences and connect with others. We recognize that not everyone wants this, and our goal is to empower choice. You can use the exploration tools purely for personal use and completely ignore the social features if you wish. We apologize if its initial prominence made you feel compelled to use it. The unlabelled buttons are a concern, and we'll fix those promptly.
• Why So Many Features? Our vision is to create a comprehensive assistive companion. Different blind and low-vision individuals have diverse needs. Some want to explore their physical environment, some need help reading documents, others want to browse the web safely, and yes, some want to connect socially. Instead of building many separate apps, we're trying to create a unified platform where these tools are available. You don't have to use them all.
• "Browser within a Browser" and Mouse/Trackpad: Your confusion here is understandable. The built-in web browser isn't just a regular browser. It's an accessible web browser designed specifically to tackle the visual complexity of the internet. It uses AI to interpret and summarize page layouts, extracts key information, and allows for tactile exploration of web content in a way standard browsers (even with screen readers) often cannot.
• Mouse/Trackpad for Explore Modes: For desktop users, the mouse or trackpad can offer a highly intuitive way to engage with the spatial exploration modes (photo grid, room exploration, and accessible web browsing). Just as touch gestures simulate "feeling" a space on mobile, a mouse or trackpad allows precise, continuous movement across a digital representation of that space, triggering audio feedback as you "hover" over or click on objects. It offers a different, yet equally rich, interaction model for spatial discovery than keyboard navigation. While keyboard navigation (arrow keys, enter, esc) is a valid suggestion for desktop, the mouse/trackpad provides a more direct analog to the touch experience, particularly for exploring visual layouts, which is a core tenet of the app.
Your feedback is precisely what we need to make this app better. It highlights areas where our design intent isn't translating clearly into user experience, and we'll be making improvements based on your valuable input. Thank you again for being a part of this journey!

Thanks for letting me know. I’ll have this fixed and hopefully about 10 minutes here.

Your profile saving issue should be fixed now! I'm so glad you're now able to set up Alex as your voice - not gonna lie, that was a tough one to implement!
As for camera permissions, that's an iOS-specific restriction I'm looking into. I'm working on ways to make the experience less intrusive - like maybe only requesting camera access when you enter Live AI mode or Conversation mode, rather than upfront. That way it's a little less disruptive, at least for now.
The screen reader is a work in progress, but right now it should work well in explore mode. This one is proving to be trickier than adding that Alex voice, lol.

This is a prime example why I decided to go with a web app. :). I can push updates to you right away. It could have taken me 3 weeks or long if it was a native app.

Hey Brad, I was just thinking about you lol.
When I talk about voice commands, do you mean for the web browser feature? If so, here’s how it functions:
Our web browser is designed to be fully accessible. You can use your voice to search the web, ask questions about what's on a page, and even navigate through content. When you ask it to open a website, it first tries to load an accessible, AI-summarized version of the content. This means it reads out the main text, key headings, and helps you explore images with spatial audio, all optimized for accessibility.
We've made some big improvements recently. Now, if you want to go directly to a specific website, you absolutely can! However, you might notice that some popular sites like Reddit or YouTube will automatically open in a new tab in your device's default browser instead of appearing directly within our app.
This isn't an issue with our system, but rather a security measure used by those websites. They send out a signal, often called an "X-Frame-Options" header or a "Content Security Policy," which basically tells other applications, "Don't put me inside an iframe!" An iframe is like a window within our app that displays another website, and these sites block that for security and privacy reasons.
We want you to have the best experience, so when we detect these sites, we now intelligently offer to open them in a new tab so you can still access them without a hitch however photo explore mode does not work in these situations as the site can't open in app. I'm actively looking into more seamless solutions for this iframe situation, and I'll keep you updated if and when I find them!

Perfect! :). Not a problem at all.

It looks like I can officially pull the room explore mode out of beta!!!!! Maybe I should get some sleep? Apparently we humans need that. I feel like I haven’t slept in days lol.

sorry guys fixing the room explore feature...lol.

Hang tight guys, I may do an over hall for room explore mode...just you wait! If this works it is going to be epic. If this works like I'm hoping I'm most certainly adding this to the photo exploration feature. Can any of you guess what I'm thinking?

Great minds think alike! I'm already working on features like that on the backend!

Just did a complete overhaul of the room exploration feature. Check it out. It might surprise you 😊. For the absolute best results use headphones. It does work without headphones as well, so please don’t think you have to use them. ❤️.

You should be able to access most features efficiently without having your own device screen reader on. Yes there is still some tweaking to do in the back end but most things you should be able to access without your screen reader.

Hey there thanks for letting me know :). Right now it won’t function properly because I’m switching out how the code works on the back end. I’m going to revamp how that works. I was going to finish that tonight but I got busy working on the room explorer feature for users to have a better experience. Alongside that I was working on the screen reader. I’ll fix that in a bit just going to get some wrest :). I’ll post an update here.

Hey so I will respond more thoroughly when I’m more awake but I wanted to touch on something. I am completely blind and yes I do use a screen reader. I’ll respond more thoroughly in a bit. Let’s not make assumptions :).

Oh I'm totally with you both on that! I'm actually working toward it, but right now I'm still laying the foundation and building the house before I can think about decorating, you know? Don't want to put the cart before the horse 😄
The reality is, I'm also navigating some financial constraints here. Building this isn't cheap, and I'd honestly love nothing more than to quit my day job and work on this full-time so we could move faster. That's the dream! But I've got bills to pay and responsibilities - my two bunnies, my guide dog, and splitting finances with my spouse. So features like panoramics might be a little ways off for now.
But it's definitely on the roadmap! Just need to get the essentials rock-solid first, then we can start adding those really cool features.

Don't talk about your self like that! I welcome anyone and everyone's opinions and feedback. Why? because every opinion, every piece of feedback may spark an idea! You are more than welcome to go to town if you feel like it. That being said, This app may not be for everyone either and that is absolutely ok but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be some dialog. I will always respond to you as long as it's respectful and constructive.

Ok, so I’m torn. Should I keep building out the Look & Tell and Live AI features, or should I drop them? There are already a lot of apps offering similar tools, so I’m not sure if it makes sense to invest more into that lane.
If I let those go, I can put more time into the things that really set this project apart like photo exploration, 3D audio panoramic maps, the ability to share those maps, and everything else on that side of the experience.
So I’m asking honestly: would you actually use Look & Tell or the Live AI features? I can spend the time and money on them, but if most of you don’t see yourself using it, then it might not be worth building. Totally up to you.

That is interesting. If you like it I'll fix it and polish it up. I was going to scrap it but if you like it and you feal you are gonna use it I'll keep it. It is a little torn apart right now but I'll try to get that fixed later today then. :).

What would you like to see in the photo exploration feature?

I’m not gonna give you guys a big spiel and ask for any donations. We get all that way too much. If you want to help the project out and it’s within your budget I have set up just a generic donation page. Don’t feel like you have too though. Eventually, once we start making this perfect, I will however be giving away some free legacy member plans and if you want and you’re comfortable, I can put you in the credits of the app as a supporter when it’s fully completed. I don’t want anyone to feel any sort of obligation and I’m definitely not gonna treat you with corporate speech… I work in a corporate job and I hate it lol. I’ll still be putting work into this regardless. You all have been amazing. I appreciate each and every single one of you.
https://www.paypal.com/ncp/payment/8RUHTTVFBJDCQ

So I have a discord server up and running so I can chat with you guys in real time instead of constantly having to go here and scroll through all of these posts lol. Here’s the discord server link.
https://discord.gg/B22qDN8C2

I love tricky! Let me see how much detail I can get it to describe too you. Let me just finish with the start camera and live ai features as I broke it yesterday and I'll start toying around with that.

haha thanks so much :).

I love you all so much! We are officially at 122 users!

So, the app was experiencing two major iOS-related issues:
1.
Camera Viewer on Homepage: The original homepage displayed a live camera feed even when you weren't using AI features. iOS security requires apps to request camera permission every time the camera is accessed. This meant every time you opened the app, iOS would ask for camera permission - even if you just wanted to check settings or navigate to a different feature.
2.
Voice AI Microphone Conflicts: When trying to use Voice AI to ask questions, iOS was getting confused because the app was already holding onto the camera permission. This created a conflict when trying to request microphone access simultaneously, causing the voice recognition to stutter, restart unexpectedly, or fail to activate properly.
What We Changed:
1.
Removed Camera from Homepage: We completely redesigned the homepage so the camera feed is NOT active when you first open the app. Instead, you now see a clean, organized menu of features. The camera only activates when you tap "Start AI Vision" or enter a feature that actually needs it (Room Explorer, Photo Explorer, etc.).
2.
Separated Camera and Microphone Access: We restructured how the app requests permissions. Now when you want to use Voice AI, you tap the "Ask a Question" button, and the app specifically requests microphone access at that moment - without the camera interfering.
Why iOS Permissions Work This Way:
iOS has strict privacy and security policies. Every time an app wants to access your camera or microphone, iOS requires explicit user permission. This is by design to protect your privacy - Apple doesn't allow apps to bypass this.
The key is timing: We can't prevent the permission prompts entirely, but we can control when they appear. By only activating the camera/microphone when genuinely needed, you'll see far fewer prompts.
What This Means for You:
• Homepage: Opens instantly without camera permission prompts. You can browse features, adjust settings, and navigate freely.
• Voice AI: Works reliably when you tap "Ask a Question" - you'll see a microphone permission prompt (only once when navigating to that page, and voice recognition will function smoothly without conflicts.
• PWA Support: iOS users can now add the app to their home screen as a Progressive Web App without constant interruptions.
• Permission Prompts: You'll still see them when using camera/microphone features - but only when actually needed.
Bottom Line: We didn't "fix" iOS permissions (we can't change Apple's security model), but we optimized when and how the app requests them to create a smoother, less intrusive experience.

Oh you did that is my bad. With so much happening over here I thought I already replied to you. Forgive me lol :). As for the NVDA add on, I am looking into how I can make that possible for you. I'll let you know what I find out and how or if I can get that all set up. As for accessing websites thru lets say for example the accessible web brouzer thing I set up, The biggest issue is that whole iframe situation I was speaking about earlier. It is a complicated one and I'm trying to see how I can work around that legally. Hang tight buddy :).

The point originally was to grab lets say google images and explore them but do to security reasons it won't let me. I kept it up because I've actually found it handy to get information much more quickly than using google for example. It skips all those adds and irrelevant results. I also get summaries of pages before I even go to them to make sure it is the one I want. So I left it up. I do see on the back end a handful of people using it so it doesn't hurt.

Check your apps! This should help in indoor spaces.