iOS 18 and Apple Intelligence

I wonder if the older devices will be able to take advantage of these new features using Apple servers? I suppose only time will tell, but it's disappointing this first version doesn't include many of the new features.

I was hoping those of us with older folks, like my 13 mini, would at least get the new Siri. I'm disappointed but not at all surprised.

That only the devices with an A17 or higher (meaning devices starting with 15pro) are getting the new AI features? I am not sure if they did, I might be wrong here but at least I had an impression they did.

Yes. It was stated during the keynote and in associated articles online, that only the iPhone 15 Pro and 15 Pro Max would get the AI features mentioned during the keynote.
As for some of the other features, like text effects, the way you access them is a bit strange. Though I haven't played with them yet, I noticed a "text effects" rotor option while focused on the iMessage text field.

Alternatively, you can keep this post up, but use the edit function to clarify what I stated above so that anyone reading it isn't mislead. I do think there is still a discussion to be had regarding what features, aside from those connected to AI, are available on what devices. Many of them don't seem too intensive, so I'm curious for that reason.

I just want to reiterate what they specifically said in the WWDC event. All models with the A17 chip, which is the 15 Pro and the 15 Pro Max will be the only devices that have access to the AI features.

It makes sense about the features missing that you've said. Yes, it requires the Apple A17 Pro as stated above. The features aren't available there yet either though, so at the moment we all have a similar version of iOS 18.
Its always good to remember that the reason the betas release early, even if they look like boring updates with multiple features missing is because developers take that time to prepare their new apps, adding all of Apple's API technologies and making sure that the app will run properly when the iOS releases to the public.
I 100% wouldn't delete this post, maybe edit it a little, but it is definitely worth keeping.

and they all say that the new Siri features aren't there yet. Maybe they'll show up for you in a future beta.

I totally understand that it's just too early to get either excited or upset about anything, but I do wonder something. I've even posted this on MKBHD's video as a comment and also message some people on WhatsApp about this. Considering Apple Intelligence being exclusive to iPhone 15 Pro and Pro Max, does it mean the rest of us will have to continue living with the same dumb Siri when upgrading to iOS 18? I hope not. For me, I'm not asking for much. I'm fine not being able to generate complex photos or execute complex tasks on my phone using SIRI. But please, let me live with Siri that doesn't keep showing me web links like what it have been doing this whole time. I really wish to still be able to ask it questions like general knowledge stuff and have it answer me the way Google Gemini and ChatGPT does. If I can get that for Siri on iOS 18, I'll be happy enough.

As an FYI:

M1+ Macs & Air/Pro IPads are required for said AI features to work on above mentioned devices. More details at:

https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/06/introducing-apple-intelligence-for-iphone-ipad-and-mac/

I'm afraid Siri on the SE3 will be just as it was before. Since all the AI features are interconnected, they won't be coming to less powerful phones.

Apple's limiting of features to the latest models is starting to sound like a whole bunch of bull snot, especially considering how powerful the iPhone 14 pro really is. Google Gemini is probably getting sick of me always asking questions and trying to prove them wrong LOL! But all jokes aside, I think it's ridiculous how exclusionary they can be to people who can't necessarily upgrade to the latest models. To give Apple credit though, it sounds like they're also going to be including ChatGPT integration through secure Apple data servers running on Silicon, so I do think we will be seeing a smarter Siri on older devices. There's always Change.org...

One thing to keep in mind about on-device AI is that it requires a lot of processing power and RAM. My guess is that Apple have tested it on a lot of older hardware and found that either the processors can't handle it at all or that it makes the experience so slow or that it drains so much battery that it is not practical to have those features activated (imagine every Siri question taking 5% battery for example). Microsoft are doing the same with their new "AI PCs", they require processors that are almost not available yet to get all the features. It is of course a bummer, but this is such a big technological shift that I think we'll have a transition period now where hardware requirements will take a huge leap (which hasn't really happened in a long while now). Of course, with that said, the companies, especially Apple who also makes the hardware, won't be sorry that many feel compelled to buy new phones etc..

I'd like to think that though some of the on device stuff might be a stretch, the general siri servers, are updated. If everyone aside from iPhone 15 pro are left with the useless idiot siri, there is going to be one heck of a stink. I was also wondering about HomePod and apple watch, will they continue with the bad siri? If so, I think that's going to upset people. Chat GPT has prooved that you don't need an LLM local for it to be highly functional. Of course, manipulating apps on device will require big smarts, but asking questions, and making simple requests should work in a similar way to how siri does now, though with more grunt in teh back end... Not to say, grunt in the back end is always a good thing... ;)

I totally agree, it should not be "all or nothing" and many things can be improved server-side and I hope they do that, because, as you say, it will make people really upset if they don't.

Apple, like many other manufacturers, continues to exploit consumers by promoting planned obsolescence. Utilizing secure connections and proprietary servers could undoubtedly enable Siri to achieve capabilities similar to ChatGPT. Additionally, the ongoing optimization of LLM models will soon facilitate their deployment on most mid-range and high-end smartphones available on the market. In the context of climate change, it seems imperative that manufacturers prioritize optimizing existing devices. Moreover, consumers themselves need to recognize this reality and refrain from hastily purchasing the latest models. After all, the ChatGPT application works perfectly on my iPhone 8! Let’s wake up, comrades.

They'll just say they can recycle your old phone.

It will be interesting to see how apple offset the energy use and consequential carbon footprint of AI which is energy intensive. That's the climate issue here, not the handsets which apple will take, strip down, recycle, and sell back to you for £1000.

OK. People they decided which phone and iPad will work better with their AI. After Sept it will be pro and next year it will be the 17 and 17 plus. Any chip that will have current or new chip. The more AI becomes advance, the more faster chip they will need. Apple will continue to create new chips and if possible they will figure out how to use the M4 which is faster than current chip. Long live the Apple.

I'll stick with my SE3 until it breathes its last. I don't care about being trendy and buying the latest Apple product just because it has become available or because the newest device will work with the newest fluff that Apple has spewed out for the masses.

Also, Chat GPT functionality aside, Siri could be made better for all devices. Can it be done? Absolutely.
Will it be done. Unlikely.

Someone above mentioned planned obsolescence; I have said this a few times before, and been scolded for it. So I am glad someone else is bringing it to attention. This is something Apple is very well known for. Sadly not everyone wants, or is capable, of purchasing a new device every 10-12 months, so we are forced to stick with what we have and endure.

Think siri is view more as an assistant that will be able to use all your data in the phone, emails, contact, text, and others data that is use within the apple apps. Apple will take their time to make it into true AI. They always take their time to release a tech but when they do is good. Will see what happen with it. Time will tell.

I am just disgusted at Apple's business model. If I can currently run Chat GPT 4o off of my current iPhone model, I should be able to run a version of the new and improved Siri within iOS 18.

While I think we’d all agree that Apple can and should be doing a lot of work to make their devices fully accessible where there are gaps, lets take a couple of obvious examples like Safari and text editing. Saying that planned obselescence is some kind of evil business model is IMHO going a bit far. Sorry Bryan. It’s their job to keep up with tech trends and capabilities. If they didn’t they’d get left in the dust. The way to do that is more power, more efficient, more memory. That requires new devices. It’s just a reality that you can’t bring new features without the hardware that allow those features to run properly. That means we need to buy new devices if we want the newest capabilities. We can make the choice that we don’t need or want the newest devices but that means we don’t own the hardware that makes the newest stuff possible. An example mentioned above is Chat GPT. In Apples version of AI, they are going for as much privacy as possible which means on device processing to decide what can be done locally, what needs private cloud in apples control and what needs Chat GPT. The cost of that privacy is local processing power and that means new chips. We can still run GPT 4O completely off device through the Chat GPT app but if we want anything on device its going to cost us an upgrade. No other area of human experience works like this with capability doubling every few years. It’s an alien concept to our brains but its how tech works. We get to sit out of that but I don’t think we get to sit out and complain that everyone else is moving forward. As for the climate change thing. Wherever this runs, on device or off device, its still using energy. Likely its going to be lower power on device because the models are smaller because the power available is less. Everything is a trade off. An engineering decision, give and take. Nothing comes for free and we want more and more capability. The way we get that is spending money. It sucks but I don’t see a way around it.

Siri will be run from phone and cloud when needed, Chap GPT is outside the phone. 2 different things.

There’s no need to beat around the bush: for several years, Siri has lagged behind other personal assistants in intelligence, despite Apple’s processors boasting superior computational power. If Apple reserves an improved version of Siri for the iPhone 15 Pro and above, this is clearly a case of planned obsolescence. I strongly believe that Apple leverages the issue of data privacy merely to uphold this strategy. Otherwise, how have others managed to achieve better performance with less computational power? I simply want to ask Siri the same questions I ask ChatGPT, and I reiterate that this does not require additional computational power. This situation is not about technology; it is purely a marketing strategy.

You Mean I'll have to get a new iPhone already? I just got the 14 in February of this year, and love it. Does anyone know yet whether or not the new Journal features are going to work on the iPhone 14 or for that matter, an M1 Mac? I ask because I've been using the native journaling app to jot down everything I stuff into my face every day. I don't want to get into a rant about this, but at least some unnamed people around these parts are not good when it comes to eating/drinking healthy. That seems to be spreading like wildfire, and my parents and at least one doctor are getting on my case about it. They're being nice about it of course, but you get my point. Actually, this doctor is a colleague of my internist who was unavailable at my most recent appointment.

Actuallyh, according to Apple, the issue as to which of the older models can handle onboard AI is ram, not computational power. Apple says onboard AI requires 8gb ram. The 15 pro has 8gb ram. Older models don't.

Apple adds that even with 8gb ram, their AI will still have to resort to the cloud on occasion.

I’m pretty sure I disagree. Firstly the privacy thing, Apples whole thing is privacy, Googles is no privacy. With Google, you understand or should at least that everything you own and do data wise is theirs. They can use that data as they please as long as they don’t annoy you too much it’s fair game. They sell hundreds of billions of $ of ads based on what they know about you. Apples business model is selling hardware. They work incredibly hard to be the anti Google. Your stuff is yours and they just aren’t interested. I understand thats why Siri sucked so bad for so long. Idiological fights within Apple between teams that said they needed users data to improve Siri and other teams saying no way. The first group apparently won that fight until AI came along. AI which BTW Apple claims now stands for Apple Intellegence. Someone got a raise for that name or should have at least. So now they have machine learning on device that they’ve bought from somewhere. It’s deeply embedded into the operating system and can take actions they call intent which may turn out to be one of the most important announcements as the years roll on. So yeh they could have just built a different version that sends everything to Chat GPT for older phones but theres no way thats going to happen based on the fact that they’ve built their entire business around not wanting access to your stuff. That and they want you to buy the next phone if you want the next thing. Maybe someone did say lets let older phones just call on Chat GPT but they obviously lost that fight and I understand why. Apple don’t bisect their OS’s like that. Reason to upgrade that please s the shareholders? Maybe but it also results in the most private OS you can currently use that quote just works. When it does and we just won’t talk about when it doesn’t lol. They want simplicity and theirs costs to that. In this case, the cost is that they aren’t going to fork their OS and just let older phones call Open AI. They still can through the app but Apple aren’t going to bake that confusing and less private situation into their product. As for this being a marketing strategy, yep it definitely is but its marketing that people want. They don’t want tech giants harvesting their lives down to an algorithm that sells ads. They positioned themselves as the anti google and not just letting you replace Siri with Chat GPT is the way they maintain the ability to market themselves as your data is yours. If you want the best experience then buy our latest stuff.

This Verge article sums up some of these things:
https://www.theverge.com/2024/6/13/24175985/apple-intelligence-ai-model-local-cloud-privacy-how-it-works

All of this reminds me when Siri was first introduced back in 2011. I remember everybody was wanting to get the iPhone 4s because it was very advance or it seem to be the coolest at that time. This seems to be something very similar for people that only had the 4s were the only ones able to have Siri people that had the iPhone 4 and below we’re not able to. And as the years progressed they introduced Siri to every single device. I believe that this is gonna be exactly the same. Only a few select devices are gonna be able to use this AI features. And with AI being so advanced, it requires definitely more power. It is sadly and unfortunately, like a lot of people have said here, it’s all a business. That’s how They’re making their money they need to sell new products and unfortunately, they do not care whatsoever if a person is unable to pay for the device or if they need to upgrade. They just pretty much put the options in the table … if you want to have this, this is what you need to pay it pretty similar to back in the day when the iPhone 4s was introduced if you wanted Siri, you need to pay. The funny thing in this case is that in a way they force you to pay as we have seen other devices get slower and slower with time. Back in the day who remembers when the iPhones were only $400 and above and now they’re $1000 and people said I will never pay $1000 for an iPhone and they are and they’re paying sometimes even more it’s all a Strategy and they find ways to make more money out of it. And I wouldn’t be surprised if this new iPhone actually bumps up in price even more given this new features.

I never meant to sound like I was disappointed that those of you who intended to have the new features of iOS 18 will be, more likely than not, purchasing a new iPhone this Autumn. I simply cannot stand the posts on here (and elsewhere) that demand that I, and those with similar mindsets, go out and spend $1,200 and upward for a new device, just because Joe from down the street says so. The point I wanted to make in my original post was that I will be content sticking with my device, until such a time comes when I absolutely need to upgrade, and until that point in time will settle for what I have access to with my lowly iPhone SE3 running the A15 chip.

Just to be clear, though, planned obsolescence is not only a thing, Apple was sued for said thing several years prior.

https://www.brusselstimes.com/1004336/planned-obsolescence-apple-sued-for-deliberately-slowing-down-iphones-in-belgium

hhttps://thehill.com/changing-america/enrichment/science/4153770-apple-to-start-paying-out-claims-in-500m-iphone-slowdown-lawsuit-reports/

https://www.theverge.com/2023/8/14/23831939/apple-iphone-batterygate-iphone-6-7-se-battery-performance-lawsuit

https://www.forbes.com/sites/vianneyvaute/2020/03/10/on-apples-batterygate-why-settling-for-500-million-dollars-is-the-wrong-move/

Got it. As the saying goes, to each there own. What works for one does not work for someone slse. I have 13 pro. If I finished paying my verizon phone, I will go for the 16 pro or pro max. Will see.

🚨🚨 Guess what, folks? Despite what Apple said, the iPhone 4 CAN run Siri! 🎉 Thanks to some clever hacking by developers Steven Troughton-Smith and Grant Paul, Siri was successfully ported to the iPhone 4 and 4th-gen iPod touch! 🙌🔓📱 #Jailbreak #iPhone4 #TechMagic #SiriOniPhone4

Check out the full story:
Watch Siri run on an iPhone 4 - CNET
Can I get Siri on an iPhone 4? : r/jailbreak - Reddit
Jailbreak hack enables Siri on iPhone 4, 4th-gen iPod touch | AppleInsider
Ill-Advised Hack Brings Siri to Jailbroken iPhone 4 | WIRED
Hack Brings Siri Voice Control to Older iPhone 4, Sort Of | PCWorld

The iPhone 4S came out in 2012 or 2011!

there is a difference between running and running well.

The issue with the new AI running on iPhone is ram. Only the iPhone 15 pro has 8 GB, the rest has 6 and lower.

Any who have ever tried an under powered android device, or the fire tablet, will be able to attest that, though screen readers can run, they run very poorly. I think this is likely to be the case with the onboard AI for the iPhone. It could work, but the user experience will be beneath what Apple is willing to ship in it's products. Fast read and write is required from ram for such on device processing. Comparing it with off device servers is a poor comparison as Apple is putting data privacy at the heart of this all, hence the need to keep as much on device as possible.

I understand the frustration though. All I can say is, the way I see it, is the phone itself is like a subscription. I loose money on one over two or three years, sunk costs, and so the only price i pay is really the differents between what I get for my phone, and the price of the new one. It's not like we are actually spending £1000 each time once we're in the cycle.

Not sure if that's any comfort or even if it is a valid rationalisation, but it works for me.

The 13 Pro cost me £949 and when I turned it in for a 15 Pro two years later, I got £420 for it. It cost me about £22 a month to have it over two years.

With such sly marketing, I should work for apple... Maybe I do....

Apple will do whatever is best for them. If people do not want the phone do not get and stop complaining about what they do. We can not always get what we want as the song from the rolling stone states.

You just might find, you get what you need.

My point was more that though things could work on older hardware, it might be a compromised experience.
Really we need to buy for what the product does at the time, not future promises. Maybe buying a new product is okay, it's not like what we have at the moment gets worse. No promises were made. Doubtless there wil be something about the new Iphone 16 that is exclusive to them over the 15 pro too. At the time of purchase, the offer was made by apple, we accepted it, so it's fine if apple continues to make newer stuff, it stings a little not having the latest and greatest, but, to be honest, there's not a great amount, aside from siri improvements, that I really care about and it seems that most of it won't be coming until next year anyway.

I'm sad my iPad mini, which I've fallen in love with again after the new BSI, won't have any of the smarts, but that leads me to think the iPad mini refresh will be an m2 bringing it in line with the air.

Yet. Like the song says I can get no satisfaction and I tried. 13 pro, I use. Works well for me and when I finished paying it, I might go for the 16 pro or pro max, depending on how much of month with Verizon. Will see.

What happens in 2025, when Apple tells you at WWDC '25, about the new and exciting new shinies coming to iOS 19? What will all of you say and, more importantly do, when Apple tells you that, "Oh sorry, you're shiny new iPhone 16 Pro/Max just will not do.

Stop by your neightborhood Apple retailer and pick-up the super new iPhone 17 Ultra with its whopping 10+GB of Ram, and oh hey you can trade in your (seriously) outdated iPhone 16 Pro/Max and get a whopping $100-$200 off of the price of the super new iPhone 17 Ultra"!

There is actually a lot of subtext there, but I will point out the 2 main issues.
1. By the time the 'next' iOS is in Development, you lot will have had your new shinies only for about 8 or 9 months.
2. Those of us who have recently purchased a new (older model, but still new sealed in box) iPhone from Apple, are being told that, a. We can in fact trade in our old iPhone and b. Apple will give us like. . . about $50 give or take.

Yes, I realize Apple is a business, and I realize Apple will do only what is ever best for Apple's 'bottom line'. Regardless of that, Apple's business model follows the same principals as that of a shark, they have lost any semblance of customer loyalty, and before anyone swears that the above scenario can and never will happen; be sure to stand in front of anyone who has purchased an iPhone 15 or 15+. . .

Stand real close.
So they can slap you. 😇

First off, a big shoutout to Brian for making me feel a bit less like a lone wolf in this Apple fan club.

Now, to those who pointed out that it’s the memory, not the processing power, that’s the issue—spot on! But let’s be real, that’s just part of Apple’s grand scheme of planned obsolescence. They’re notoriously stingy with memory, ensuring that your device struggles with future updates. Clever, right?

Also, quick fact check: not everyone can buy iPhones on credit. Some of us, like me, pay in cold, hard cash.

And Brian, you’re absolutely right—the trade-in values Apple offers are laughable. Seriously, you’re better off selling it directly to someone who appreciates it.

But who am I kidding? Maybe it’s time I switched to Android!

I got £400 for my iPhone 12 pro last year for trade in, I didn't think that was too bad.

Of course you are right, but making customers pay for new technology isn't underhanded. I think we might have been somewhat spoiled by software updates. The phone you buy now will last for at least five years with updates, true you might not get the latest features, but the thing you bought does not become redundant. It's like buying a 4 k tv this year and complaining that it can't show 8 k next year when the latest TVs are 8 K ready.

I'm hurt that you think me an apple fan boy, the way they've crashed voiceover on mac is, and I believe I may have mentioned it once or twice, scummy. I don't like Tim Cook and that Craig bloke, too self rightious and smarmy for me my Brit sensabilities, so I'm not on apple's side. It just vexes me when people demand stuff for free. If you want the tech, buy it, if you can't afford it this time around, hold off until an upgrade is possible. It's annoying, true, but if you have the iPhone 15, 14 or 13, you have one of the best phones you can get, it won't get worse if other phones with other toys on come out. You get what you pay for. Android is the same when it comes to it's AI driven devices, you need certain ones of a certain age from certain providers.

And, though none of you have done it, there are many on reddit who use environmental impact as a thinly vailed annoyance at such times. If you care about the environment, don't upgrade. Apple has one of the longest support cycles of any of any phone manufacturer. I just bought a motorola for tinkering, and that gets a single upgrade... In essence one year support, but it was also only £200, so I can't really complain.

Apple is guilty of so many things, I just think adding exclusive features to new handsets they want to sell is not one of them.

Oh, and I'd be very surpirsed if people are left on siri v1, or v0 really. running two separate siri farms seems a bit daft. Maybe we'll not get the full deep control but responses and simple tasks in natural language will, like current siri, be done off device. They will still want to sell older phones.

Hi all.

I thoroughly enjoy a good political or economic debate, and I hope applevis creates a political forum for it, but this is not that forum, and while I wholeheartedly encourage everyone to share and disagree with each other, I'm not following this forum and thread with the goal of emmersing myself in political crap. I'm here to learn about the new product and it sfeatures. Is anyone else here for that purpose? Would anyone else support the idea of having a separate forum for politics so folks might stop dumping their politics here in this new product forum?

Anyway, thanks for sharing all your deeply held philosophies and beliefs about Apple.

Now that I've thanked you for sharing, will you please take your Apple politics somewhere else, like a forum that's not devoted to new products? I'd sure appreciate that.

One last thing. Businesses are in the business of making money. Get over it. That's capitalism as much as is you voting with your wallet.

Joy!

Bruce