We Deserve Better from Apple: Why I Can No Longer Recommend a Mac to Fellow Blind Computer Users

I shared this to Hacker news. If you have an account there, maybe upvote for visibility.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37813895

I've been a windows user for most of my life and don't plan on switching to a mac at all.

I tried it once, never again.

Maybe I have been very lucky, but I have not experienced the same level of frustration with my Mac. I have been using a MacBook Air since 2013, and my current Mac is a 2020 M1 MacBook Air with 8 GB of RAM. While I have occasionally encountered the "Safari not responding" issue, I could easily work around this by turning VO off and on. I use my Mac for creating documents, working with spreadsheets, using the Internet, managing my music library, handling emails, among other things. Based on my experience, I would have no problem recommending a Mac to a blind user. Of course, each person must determine their own use case.
Over the past ten years, I have encountered numerous bugs but none of them were show stoppers for me. I imagine that Windows with JAWS or NVDA also has its share of bugs.
Given that this bug seems to not affect all Mac users with the same severity, this may make it a more difficult issue for Apple to address. However, given the comments that I have read on Applevis, I agree that this should be a priority for their Accessibility team.

I was looking forward to upgrading my 2018 Mac Mini - just waiting for the M3 to be released. But that's now tabled. I stand in solidarity with David. No more new Apple hardware until this long-standing and unacceptable issue is resolved.

I can't speak for David, but I personally feel this post will have more impact if those of you not experiencing this issue please discuss your system config in any of the numerous posts devoted to trying to find a solution. And I'll warn you in advance, lots of suggestions have been made over the years, and there is no silver bullet.

Most of us have been experiencing this issue for years. Please don't pretend this issue doesn't exist.

I am still running Big Sir on my 2015 13 inch MBP (with Core I7, 16 gig RAM, and one terabyte SSD). I do not have a lot of trouble with the not responding bug with Safari, enough to be aggravating at times but not enough to significantly effect productivity, and I almost never encounter it with other applications. Overall, I do have some issues with Safari but no more than I had using Internet Explorer under Windows 8 with JAWS 16, before I switched to the Mac in 2016. For me, using the Mac, there are not more internet browsing issues, just different issues, and there will always be issues of some sort. With Safari, there are some aggravations but it is certainly very usable. Again, this is using Big Sir. I am genuinely curious as to whether things have gone down hill significantly with Safari sense Big Sir. I can update my MBP to Monterey but I have stayed with Big Sir in order to remain on the same OS version as my wife, who has a 2014 MBP and cannot update past Big Sir. I had planned, in about a year or so, to purchase a new MacBook pro but I find posts like this one making me wonder if that is wise.

If it turns out that Mac OS no longer meets the needs of my use case, then I will not purchase another mac, for myself, until that is resolved. I do have to remain productive. However, I don't plan to boycott Apple, in order to make a statement. I don't think we make up a large enough portion of their user base for that to work. I do not know the statistics but I suspect that Voice Over users probably make up less than one percent of Apple's user base. We are in the overwhelmingly vast minority here and, as such, we have little leverage with which to economically influence them. If every Voice Over user stopped purchasing Apple products tomorrow, I suspect that it would have no meaningful impact on Apple's bottom line. I think making them aware of the issues, respectfully but persistently, is all we can really do.

I've had this issue, although it hasn't been as crippling as those I've seen posted here. While VoiceOver may say Safar not responding, for example, I find that I can still type my search, which is where the bug usually show up, and press enter as if nothing is happening. Usually, VoiceOver will read the webpage as if nothing happened. My guess is that this is specifically a VoiceOver bug. I'm using a 2016 Mb Pro with 8 gb of RAM and a 256 SSD.

It's the main reason my MacBook Air has been in its case in the drawer underneath my entertainment center for the past several years. I'd been a Windows user for ages, and when I switched to the Mac, I was struggling in general. The Safari not responding bug tried my patience to the point where I gave up and went back to Windows.

Hi.
I’m one of the lucky ones who’ve had this issue rarely and that didn’t impact my workflow that much. I am located in Frantz with a fast Internet connection. Using Ventura on a 2015 MacBook Pro.
I’ve seen some bug trackers Software which were specifically designed for windows applications, and could track What was happening on a computer. Would this kind of application help?

Since upgrading to Synoma, the "Safari not responding" bug has completely disappeared for me. The worst occurrence of this bug for me was for the last Ventura update. I am using an M2 2022 Macbook pro with 1 TB SSD and 8 GB Ram. I am in Australia, and am connected to the NBN. I feel very sorry for those of you who are very much impacted by this issue. This has not ben my experience and I will continue to support the Mac.

Disclaimer: Stick to Big Sur!

While I am sure I will get flamed for stating this, the Safari Not Responding issue is resolvable with Big Sur. I have given both Monterey and Ventura a run for their combined monies, and I can safely say, "Both are garbage".
With Big Sur you can adjust a number of VoiceOver settings from within the VO Utility (VO + F8) which will pretty much prevent the bug from happening.

I made a post about month ago regarding this, have a read:

https://applevis.com/forum/macos-mac-apps/edit-safari-busy-bug-practical-simple-work-around

HTH. 😃

Hi all!

Like many of you, I have seen the Safari not responding problem on and off since I started using a Mac. My current MBP 2020 M1 does not exhibit this problem hardly ever, and if it does, it is not something that is reproducible.

I can say with a lot of experience that current Firefox versions are very well behaved on MacOS. Like on Windows where having multiple browsers is also not uncommon, I encourage other Mac users to at least install Firefox and keep it up to date alongside Safari.

Also, since this is most likely a WebKit bug, there is a public bug tracker for WebKit at https://bugs.webkit.org. You need to register once, and then can file issues there that then get also converted into Radar issues, Apple's internal bug tracking system. That is another way to make these bugs more visible, the more bugs are filed on this, the more developers, both within Apple and outside, will see it, and the status can be tracked publicly.

I think its important to put pressure on apple but to expect us not to buy a mac till its fixed is not rite or reialistic. And what if they take along time? If safari give me issues I go to edge. And even though windows have some good points, I can no longer go back there, and struggle with things I otherwise wouldn't and sertin things like logic is usable and you can get quite far with it, and in windows world you don't get that. And please don't tell me to use reaper, that is not a option for me and the name is far to satanic for my liking. So why must I give up my mac or not get another one if it do me more good than frustration?
Yes I am also upset because they don't improve garageband accessibility enough as they should, (not everyone can aford or need logic) but its not possible to cope in windows world if you want a solution like logic not even to mention the wunderfull software of rogamoeba and the fact that its much easyer to record audio with that then to struggle with stupid vurtual audio cable on windows. And with a mac you can at least disable security policies if need to on your own on the recovery partition but with windows you need site wich we don't all just have available when we clap our fingers. When the mac is not usable for me anymore is when I won't by one. But I do surely wish they can wake up and smell the poo.

Hi everybody. As previously mentioned I am among those who have not experienced many show-stopping issues over the years, but I am in the process of registering an account on Bugzilla. However, I got a message stating that my email address is invalid and I'm contacting the administrative team over there. By chance could this have to do with the fact that I also have an account on GitHub? I haven't used it much if at all, but am just curious.

Yup. Agreed. Many of us will already have arrived at this reluctant but inescapable conclusion. Doesn't matter what your use case is, and I'll be honest and admit that in the Apple ecosphere Macs and macOS are still my greatest loves and joys, if you can't in good faith recommend it then you're on to a loser. And I can't recommend it. It's fine for a certain kind of user who's willing to endure rough edges, but such a person is not the general user. Not unlike when Window-Eyes was the secondary screen reader, actually, and with similar dynamics and character tendencies.

I bought my M2 MacBook Air for travel. It did not ideally serve in that capacity because it couldn't power multiple storage devices and required a hub, so a MacBook Pro would have been the better (and more eye-wateringly expensive) choice. But I won't argue with the joy it gives me using it. The M2 Pro Mini is a terrific server machine. But I am coming up short on replacing either the Air or my old Intel iMac precisely because of the need to keep running other operating systems and the difficulty of justifying the costs in light of the shortcomings. Honestly, I would gladly save up for a Mac Studio if I were more confident in the direction of travel, but I'm really not. Of course Sonoma was the focus of my efforts during the beta test period, but the story is as ever one of gradual refinements that are mostly incomplete and buggy, and existing long-standing bugs simply not getting fixed. I have always endured the Safari Not Responding issue as a kind of sad inevitability, but there's no doubt that Windows has the upper hand in such a vitally important task as web browsing, and if things don't improve then it may very well be a push sufficient to at least demote macOS to a secondary platform, probably and ironically on the very Intel iMac 2020 I'm now using to write this blog post to you on, purchased with precisely that goal in mind.

So do pester Apple. We do indeed deserve better.

From my experience, the safari not responding seems to happen more on cluddered websites, as in, websites that have a lot of content to the point where there are many ui elements, links, headings, buttons on the screen and text and imbedded videos, which seems to be when this happens as far as safari not responding. Having used both mac and windows, I prefer mac, although for me the safari not responding isn't a showstopper, however apple really needs to improove on fixing accessibility stuff. I will say though, i'm sure this isn't a eesy bug to fix, as there doesn't seem to be an exact way of reproducing it. If we found exactly how and under what circumstances triggered this bug, and pointed it out to apple, a fix could be made. But not having enough information and a way of reproducing this bug... of course it won't be fixed. There isn't enough information as to what makes this bug trigger. I mean, think about it. The same thing happens in ios, although in ios its, voiceover crashes, and restarts. But again, the main culprit seems to be cluttered or badly designed websites, at least in terms of accessibility. Also, add blockers seem to help with this, as far as not having the, safari not responding, occur, per experience.

After reading this post and working on my Mac for a day I now realise why this bug does not affect? effect? me that much. I have a Macbook Air, Intel, 16GB ram.
I frequently hear the ”Safari not responding” message, but since the way I use the Mac automatically fix the issue for me I have never seen it as a problem. Maybe this will help some other people…
My workflow
1) I enter a website on Safari,
2) The ”Safari not responding” message is heard,
3, I use the trackpad to jump to the next heading
4) Safari starts responding - and I continue using the trackpad to navigate the website.

I actively tried this during the day and in each case it was my flick down on the trackpad that helped. Since I have always used the trackpad this way I never noticed it was the action unfreezing the Mac.

I've kind of checked it out and it's very powerful from what I understand but if you want to keep using mac then go for it but from what I'm reading; voiceover is just breaking down slowly.

To those who say I'll stick to mac because of the issues windows have, i'd like to know what issues those are? I've been using the systems for about 20 or so years now on and off and I might have income across some audio issues from time to time, I can't honestly remember, but I'd like to know what you've had happen to you.

The reason I ask is because macs at least in my oppinion are just very expencive and not worth it for me. If they did something ground breaking I'd be interested but why would I want to pay over £1000 for a basic computer, in mac standards, when I could get a more advanced one on the windows/lynix side?

When I started using Macs in the mid-2000s I kept a Windows machine or VM around to help the transition and for the things just easier in the Windows world. I actively put time into modifying my workflows to do more stuff natively on the Mac side.
Over the last years the reverse has happened, more and more things became problematic on the Mac and the Windows VM got busier and busier. By which I mean through my time, not an error message!
I was the ideal customer for a Mac Studio, I wanted a dense processing box that would replace my old trashcan Mac Pro but macOS meant I really couldn't justify it. I built a home Linux server and bought my first Windows laptop in over 20 years and its been a much better experience.
I still use a Mac for my work laptop but when that's up for replacement I really struggle to see why I should stay with macOS. I love Apple hardware but watching VoiceOver on macOS slowly rust away over the years has been really depressing and it absolutely does not need to be this way. I want to be able to buy a shiny new Mac and be just as productive as I can be on Windows. I don't want to have to put up with crappy feeling Windows laptops but I also want to get some work done and that kinda trumps the rest...

I don't think i could personally work on something like that, but i don't know, it would be interesting to check out the keys. Don't they have a butterfly keyboard caps or something?

That was only in the Touch Bar MacBook Pros before 2019 no they use scissors magic keyboard switches

I disagree about voiceover going downhill. I mean it has bugs, but it works. Again, just my experience. Although as far as audio editing on windows... Good luck, that's all i'll say to that. A lot, and I mean a lot;of pluggins won't natively be accessible on reaper as they are on mac, so prepare to either use a shit ton of ocr and addons to make stuff accessible... but I digress. I'm sticking to mac. It works more than perfect for my needs, and bugs... I mean no showstoppers, at least in my opinion but, that's me.

Asara makes some plugins accessible with reaper and there is an email list for that kind of stuff but yeah, if you feel better on a mac, go for it!

Hi all.
Generally the older the processor, the slower the system if you have an older processor, you are going to get the busy busy indicator, especially for large webpages.
Please, if you guys can send me a few webpages and give me some steps to reproduce where this issue is reproducible.
My Mac is working fine. I have had no issues Like that.
If you guys can afford it, try to get to a newer Max 2020 2021, 2022 if you guys can.
Thanks

Not quite. Osara makes reaper itself accessible; not pluggins themselves. Osara only makes reaper's UI accessible, wether pluggins are accessible... is another matter entirely.

I didn't mean its not accessible at all. Of corse it is usable, but not everything is accessible. IF it is, then tell me how to set and use markers, and I don't mean lots of steps and work arounds, but with propper shortcuts, and things like the sampler, how do I work inside it without extra external tools? Why is it that logic have more shortcuts out the box for the same features wich garageband don't have any? And the even bigger problem is on ios where allot more can be done.
You should with both platforms be able to have better feedback from voiceover when working with regions.

Thanks for letting me know.

People seem to ask this over and over again, apparently sincerely. If Macs aren't for you, great, but for purposes of this and similar discussions, just take it for granted that Macs and macOS matter to certain types of users for certain reasons. Geeks, programmers, techie explorers, UNIX devotees, audio editors, retirees in search of a quieter and less distracting computing life—whatever it is, people will value that hardware and software for different reasons and the price will be worth paying, for them. If you're asking without the benefit of past experience, there's no harm in trying it yourself, to get an idea of what Macs offer beyond the screen reader and establish if there's anything there for you.

I'm glad to hear you haven't experienced the "not responding" issue on your newer Mac. However, many others, including myself, have modern high-spec Macs and still deal with this problem regularly. A high spec Mac quite possibly reduces the likelihood of experiencing this issue for some, but it doesn't seem to be a silver bullet.

(Though, honestly, after watching the discussion degrade into a DAW spitting war, it's a little embarrassing to point Tim Cook here. Seriously, you guys. Good Grief.)

Hello Apple Accessibility and Tim Cook.

I’m a VoiceOver user on macOS. As you might be aware, there is a long-standing issue with Safari, in which VoiceOver users are unable to interact with web pages. Each keystroke causes Safari to generate the message, “Safari Not Responding”.

In response to a recent call from AppleVis.com editor David Goodwin (https://applevis.com/blog/we-deserve-better-apple-why-i-can-no-longer-recommend-mac-fellow-blind-computer-users), I am reporting an occurrence of this issue.

I received the Safari Not Responding message while attempting to read the following Apple Support page
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204321

I immediately generated the following sysdiagnose file.
(cloud link removed)
Some things to note.
- The most important characteristic of this issue is that, while VoiceOver users are blocked from interacting with the web page, sighted users with the WIMP interface can interact with the page unimpaired. This has been noted by several low vision AppleVis users. In other words, Safari has loaded the web page completely. Only VoiceOver is blocked.
- I’m on macOS 13.6 with a 2018 Mac Mini, but in over two years of discussing this issue on AppleVis, it is overwhelmingly clear that the OS release and hardware are not related to the problem.
- The problem is intermittent. The web page I cited above may, or may not, reproduce the issue for you. Some AppleVis members rarely see the issue, others are virtually unable to browse the web.
- Besides Safari, the issue sometimes occurs with the Music and App Store apps while displaying web content. The issue doesn’t occur in Google Chrome.
- While Webkit seems like a likely culprit, it’s worth noting that I, personally, have never been able to reproduce the issue with Mozilla Firefox.
- When the issue occurs in Safari, symptoms vary from mild to severe. It might go away after jumping to a header (VO+Command+H), or it might be so persistent that I am unable to turn off VoiceOver (Command+F5). The problem may last a second or 30 seconds.
- In the for what it’s worth department… I am a retired computer programmer. In my experience, this issue smells a lot like a multithreaded or multiprocess lock issue. Does Webkit share a memory segment with VoiceOver? If so, you might want to take a close look at what processes are holding the lock for that memory segment, and why.
- Adding insult to injury, as I uploaded the sysdiagnose to Google Drive, I reproduced the issue a second time. That’s twice in one morning. Oddly, I didn’t see the issue at all yesterday.

In summary, I want to emphasize how important it is for Apple to address this issue. Many in the AppleVis community - loyal, faithful Apple customers - have become quite jaded thanks to this bug. Myself included. While Apple makes outstanding products that I routinely recommend to my blind friends, it is disheartening to hear those same friends complain about long-standing unresolved issues such as this. If Apple, with its astronomical market cap, cannot resolve this issue, where are blind users to turn?

Thanks for your time. I look forward to the prompt resolution of this bug in a future release.

I've encountered the "Safari not responding" issue on all sorts of web pages, not just resource-heavy ones. It seems to happen randomly and inconsistently. The same web page will behave perfectly for many visits, and then for no obvious reason it throws the "Safari not responding" message. Just a few minutes ago I had it occur on a simple Google search results page after hitting the back button from one of the search result pages, and was stuck for minutes unable to get my Mac to do anything other than keep repeating "Safari not responding."

So the reason why freedom scientific doesn’t have a screen reader on the max side or iOS is because people aren’t requesting it. At this point Apple is going to be Apple. There will be bugs. They’re going to be issues that will take years to fix; if they even get fixed. Contacting freedom, scientific and leaving feedback about creating a screen reader for the Mac and iOS could be a long-term solution. I would prefer to have more than one screen in your choice. And Jaws in someways blows voice out of the water. Similarly, there are cases were voiceover Might be better. Having the ability to use both could be useful. But it as always depends on us to communicate what we want. If a few hundred people reached out to freedom, scientific and requested jaws to be made for macOS, iOS, watchOS, etc., they might listen and it could be a meaningful game changer. I have no problem paying a premium on accessibility. Moreover, I have no problem paying a premium on accessibility that is continually improved.

Well!
Long time apple Mac user for over 12 years
MacBook Pro 2010
MacBook Pro mid 2012
Mac mini 2014
MacBook Air M2 Silicon

Safari not responding
Not only happens when use safari if also when use the native apps
as:
Mail busy
GarageBand busy
Pages busy

Maybe voiceOver is getting old and now needs to take a break every single time that has to do a task lol

try open amazon and see what happens

Great post David, I completely agree. I don't think I have the issue quite as bad as some people, but I certainly do experience it relatively frequently.
I've also been experiencing it in other apps, most notably Mail, which is immensely frustrating.
There's a lot I like about the Mac and how it works, but issues like this just ruin it. I like the Mail app and some of the functionality of Safari when they are working. I like the continuity features with my iPhone. I like a lot of the native keyboard commands, and how easy it is to create your own VoiceOver keyboard commands. I'm not saying you can't do audio stuff on Windows, but the very limited skills I have were learned with tools on the Mac.
I do not like that even aside from this "not responding" issue, VoiceOver can feel laborious, especially when web browsing. Browsing on Windows with Jaws is just vastly superior. While I sometimes see the value of the grouping and interacting model, I also find it can be convoluted at times. And focus is just so unpredictable, will it land me inside the web content today? Jaws on Windows offers a nice flat approach, but still allows you to jump between sections with F6 or Ctrl+F6 in may applications which works well.
The state of Microsoft Office apps with VoiceOver is beyond a joke. Two giants like Apple and Microsoft should be able to put their heads together to sort that, but have chosen not to.
I use Windows in work because I simply couldn't use a Mac with these issues. I use a Mac at home, but have genuinely thought about switching to a Windows machine next time I'm getting a new laptop.
I'd definitely be on the VoiceOver 2.0 train, and who knows, maybe they are doing this!
Dave

I have tried a mac years ago, if the mac is for you; great! But Voiceover just seams to be getting worse and worse.

@The Oliver Kennett, I wish I could help you with that but I don't know anything about those programs. You could try JAWS in its demo mode to see if the OCR works for the programs.

Would you be able to try a friends windows computer or to put windows on your machine through bootcamp? I don't like the idea of you spending money just to realise you can't actually use the apps you need.

Yikes, so many inaccuracies about DAW accessibility here. I'm gonna drop a link to the Reapers Without Peepers group. Full disclosure, I run the group and have been heavily involved in the accessibility and community around this workstation for years, but please understand this isn't any sort of self-promo, I'm linking to an external source of information because the vast majority that's been said about DAWs in this thread misses the mark by a mile. While Reaper inevitably isn't gonna be the right fit for everyone, if having a voice in how accessibility happens is important to you, then I'd say it's at least worth a look irrespective of whether you're on Mac or Windows. Right now, it's the only choice I'm aware of where key decisions that shape accessibility are made by actual screen reader users, where there's mostly equal accessibility across multiple platforms, where there's plenty of open and highly effective dialog around accessibility, and perhaps most importantly, where it's pretty typical to find multiple quality of life improvements specifically for screen reader users landing even in minor updates.
https://groups.io/g/rwp
Hope it's useful to someone.

Long-time windows user. The mac seems totally irritating currently. Sad. Just bought a Samsung £2000 laptop running win11, but people should have a viable choice. They are fabulous laptops, but the screen reader on MacOS sounds bonkers. Clearly been designed with minimal input from screen reader users, the model of interaction with content both online and within MacOS is convoluted and totally unnecessary. The issues with Safari would drive me to drink. Unsustainable for Apple, especially given NVDA and narrator. For all of you Mac users, I do hope they do something tangible soon.

Has anyone been having the dizzy issue on newer macs? 2020 or newer?
Thanks

I posted this reply previously regarding your suggestion earlier in this thread that new mAcs did not exhibit this behavior:

I'm glad to hear you haven't experienced the "not responding" issue on your newer Mac. However, many others, including myself, have modern high-spec Macs and still deal with this problem regularly. A high spec Mac quite possibly reduces the likelihood of experiencing this issue for some, but it doesn't seem to be a silver bullet.

Hi again everybody. While it's true that I really like the Mac and will keep using it as long as possible, it seems that the Safari problems are increasing in frequency for me. As stated in my previous reply to this topic, I attempted to register for a WebKit account but ran into an issue. I contacted the admin of that website and received a request back for more information. I wrote back and am eager to see what happens. But in addition to "Safari not responding", at random intervals when I exit a website with Command-W VoiceOver will either begin reading a scripting error of some sort or say "open" and then give the URL of the website which I'm attempting to exit. It will actually exit though. I know this because I've checked with the down-arrow key. What I'm wondering is if there is some kind of delay in the clearing of cache somewhere. In any case, these are most certainly issues which need to be looked into. I attempted to put in a work order on the maintenance portal for my building, and ran into some issues. Long story short, I ended up resetting my password which apparently took all night to do. I wasn't up all night, but I think you get my point. This portal has some accessibility issues, but they're not show-stoppers. Ironically enough, today's episode of Eyes on Success features a discussion of Apple's new stuff. I haven't yet listened to the episode, but am planning to do so. I'm currently using Google Chrome with VO set to character echo, and thus far it's working pretty well.

Hello Paul,

Thank you for your email and taking the time to produce a sysdiagnose file. We appreciate the feedback and wanted to let you know that Apple is currently investigating this issue.

Sincerely,

Apple Accessibility

Honestly, there are a multiplicity of high-quality laptops available on the windows side. Examples:
https://www.samsung.com/uk/computers/galaxy-book/galaxy-book3-ultra-16-inch-i9-16gb-1tb-np960xfh-xa2uk/
https://www.dell.com/en-uk/shop/laptops-2-in-1-pcs/xps-15-laptop/spd/xps-15-9530-laptop/cn95309cc
Loads of other alternatives as well, depending on budget. All you'll need is NVDA downloaded and set to run on the login screen, and you are basically good to go. Seemless. I was seriously considering migrating to a Mac when I had to upgrade this summer, but couldn't stomach all of the accesssibility issues, so opted for a solid windows machine.

It’s not hard to read the F off and leave us alone subtext there. “Hi, I have evidence of that thing everyone has been telling you about”. “Thanks, we’re really interested in that so we aren’t following up in any way”.

I've read this whole thread and got to wondering, is anyone here using an ad blocker? Does it help? Frankly, I almost refuse to browse the web on my pc anywhere without and ad blocker, the amount of crap the ads want to load with every page is astonishing.

Yeah, I heard the laughing. I'm still hopeful.

We've got a long-standing issue where the most popular workaround is to use a competitor's web browser. And the editor of AppleVis just called on us to spam Tim Cook's inbox. My money says Mr. Cook will put a couple of engineers on this bug for two or three days - that's all it should take.

Honestly that seams about right for apple accessibility Plus most acccessibility emails. They dash off quick emails and then either eventuallly fix things, when that might be we'll never know, or just don't seam to care.

If I had there job, I'd at least tell the user what we've worked on at the moment, yes it would probably be a copy and paste kind of thing but at least it would give them more info than, hi, thanks, we're working on this, buy.

If you're getting new Windows hardware, just beware the cost-cutting, which sadly affects even business line machines from the big OEMs. In particular: avoid RealTek chipsets like the plague. And less bloatware is always better, because even the best Windows machines have management utilities to keep drivers and firmware updated. If there is a "stock" Windows experience beyond the clean install, I've yet to see it on a shop-bought box, so do the research and find out people's opinions of the experience you get out of the box. I do think this is one area where Mac simply wins, IMNSHO. Microsoft should bring back "signature", and take care of drivers and firmware in Windows updates. But they don't.

If you're all right with a two-in-one and don't mind the specs, then sure, Surface is certainly one of the most accessible machines you can have.

I don't have a Mac yet and due to all the comments I'll probably not going to anytime soon. I run a Microsoft Windows Surface laptop 5th Generation. It's got a clean version of Windows 11 on it and works extremely fast. I'd always recommend Surface devices as that's the best, clean version of Windows you're always going to get.